[Bahnhof Zoo]

With that said...

...IMO the only night and day difference is gonna be massive lack of bass response comparing to M4s I have both and M4s are so joyful for genres like drum and bass, jungle, dub, etc.
But maybe that would appear to be the sound you have been looking for. Depends on how your ears are trained and (even more) on actual music choices.

Thank you and you’re right. The m4 has tremendous bass response. That’s not the biggest reason why I like them though. I enjoy the imaging, separation and overall sound stage. I guess I’m expecting an airy-er presentation on the Dali and better detail retrieval. I primarily listen to rock, alternative some pop etc. if a lot of that is the same on the Dali then, to be honest, I’m going to likely struggle with the price difference between these two, especially when you consider that the sennheiser has double the battery life. But if it’s everything everyone his saying about these cans then it’s a moot point.

 

[streetbeat]

Thank you and you’re right. The m4 has tremendous bass response. That’s not the biggest reason why I like them though. I enjoy the imaging, separation and overall sound stage. I guess I’m expecting an airy-er presentation on the Dali and better detail retrieval. I primarily listen to rock, alternative some pop etc. if a lot of that is the same on the Dali then, to be honest, I’m going to likely struggle with the price difference between these two, especially when you consider that the sennheiser has double the battery life. But if it’s everything everyone his saying about these cans then it’s a moot point.

Very likely you won't be disappointed then

 

[madFloyd]

I'm wondering how many people are listening via USB cable vs Bluetooth? If USB, any recommendations on brand of cable?

I'm trying to maximize the sound without resorting to EQ and after owning them for over a month I'm finding the bass to be somewhat anemic. I don't use the Bass mode because it doesn't just add bass, it destroys the highs. I don't know how anyone could listen to these with ANC off because that totally removes the bass.

 

[angelom]

I don't know how anyone could listen to these with ANC off because that totally removes the bass.

I'm one of the people that thinking the iO-12's best sound is in"Hi-fi" mode + ANC Off, and I listen to very different genres. One or two persons in this thread, by the way, saying that they still finding this same settings a little more bassy than they preferring. So, like always, this is a preference aspect for every person.

I think in your case you have 4 options: a) Continue using your Dalis with ANC On, b) try finding a good EQ app so that you can adjusting for finding the sound you really like, c) maybe give your ears more time for adapting to a more/very reference type of sound, or d) sell/return your iO-12 and maybe buy, for example, the Focal Bathys, a headphone that is more bassy.

 

[madFloyd]

I'm one of the people that thinking the iO-12's best sound is in"Hi-fi" mode + ANC Off, and I listen to very different genres. One or two persons in this thread, by the way, saying that they still finding this same settings a little more bassy than they preferring. So, like always, this is a preference aspect for every person.

I think in your case you have 4 options: a) Continue using your Dalis with ANC On, b) try finding a good EQ app so that you can adjusting for finding the sound you really like, c) maybe give your ears more time for adapting to a more/very reference type of sound, or d) sell/return your iO-12 and maybe buy, for example, the Focal Bathys, a headphone that is more bassy.

Thanks, I own the Bathys and they were my favorite until the Dali. The Bathys do have a lot more bass but are nowhere as good in terms of clarity, soundstage etc.

I play bass so I appreciate hearing basslines and bass texture as well as I do on the Dalis - perhaps my issue is the highs (although very clean) are more pronounced than I'd like. I'm sure EQ is my solution but thought I'd ask.

 

[iGarikus]

Having used the headphones for about 40 days, there are some conclusions.

I have no complaints about connecting headphones via Type-C cable to PC, they really sound good, amazing. Best solution ever, just for my opinion.

But I got tired of using both USB Bluetooth dongles and my phone also. Perhaps this information will be useful to someone, so I’m writing this.

BTD-800 (Sennheiser-branded) USB dongle delivers good sound (much better than my OPPO phone whule connected via bluetooth), but constantly loses the connection after 10 minutes of inactivity, I have to “dance with a tambourine” several times switching the sound source from headset to my PC (3-4 times back and forth, it doesn’t work on the first switch, lol). In very few cases synchronization with the dongle occurs, but the headphones flies to some crazy "supertransparency" mode like a bug of some kind - I start to hear everything in the room like microphones are working on their full (I move my finger over the earphone from below and hear a strong rustling sound of my finger moving) and this cannot be fixed by turning headset off/on. The mode change button does not help too (it becomes double transparent already being in supertransparent mode with double echo sounding and when returned to "ANC off" I still have undesired supertransparency), there is some kind of hard freeze, only a reset helps. Some kind of a serious software bug on connection level. Sad.

Recently I received UGREEN USB Bluetooth 5.3 from Aliexpress ($12), the sound quality is worse than BTD-800 and there are occasional small wheezes every 10 seconds. It’s extremely inconvenient to use it on my work machine under Linux according to that noise inserts; I’ll try it under Windows at home when I have enough time for that.

Also I tested it on a cheap Chinese ORICO BTA-403 USB dongle ($4 lol) - it seems to be stable, although the Bluetooth version is old (4.0). In the output settings, a notification appears that the sound is output through AptX (really?), perhaps this is a fake or they stole the technology? The sound is relatively not bad, although worse than the BTD-800.

Yes, I saw bt-w5 was noticed as working fine. At the same time, I’m not sure whether this new thing will work on my system differently; after all, the dongle is not cheap and is more expensive than Sennheiser’s.

Perhaps the problem can be in my Linux OS (Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop) while using USB dongles. In different Linux systems, numerous problems with wireless connections have previously been noticed for many times, this applies to both Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. But I never had any problem using my old PXC-550 headset, for years!

Btw, my co-worker tried to connect IO-12 to his Xiaomi phone via a Type-C <--> Type C cable (on both ends, perhaps in OTG mode?) and it started working with good quality using internal headphone DAC. Unfortunately, this trick did not work on my OPPO phone.

Perhaps I would not have bothered with all that dongles&stuff and used only my OPPO phone as the main source, but... as I told earlier, the sound seems to be kind of flat to me, no wow effect, no drive, no juicy sound, on any eq setting and without it too (comparing after I listened through the BTD-800 and through the Type-C cable from the PC, the overall sound quality is very different on different devices).

I return to the idea that Sony and Samsung were probably and remain the best phones for listening on Android, with the best sound settings, if we consider use via Bluetooth. I experienced the wow effect for years and even danced while walking when I used my PXC 550 with my old Sony Xperia X Mini phone (unfortunately, both are not working as for now), but now there’s only little pleasure in listening, I catch myself thinking that I’m constantly skipping tracks, as if trying find one that sounds brighter than the previous one. So I was convinced that the presence of AptX codec does not mean that our sound will be rich and powerful on output.

I apologize for possible mistakes in my reply, I don’t know the language very well, but I try not to use a translator but to write on my own

 

[angelom]

I play bass so I appreciate hearing basslines and bass texture as well as I do on the Dalis - perhaps my issue is the highs (although very clean) are more pronounced than I'd like. I'm sure EQ is my solution but thought I'd ask.

I playing bass (too) long time ago, then changing to guitar (but that's different story)......and my opinions about what (professional) musicians (or people that playing an instrument) think is good sound or not is a topic for a different time.

Reproduction of high frequencies, in my long experience with headphones, is that they are the very more difficult frequencies for reproducing correctly in headphones. And then, because of the natural nature of high frequencies, listening volume levels are VERY important for how much we liking (or not) the high frequencies in a headphone, and this is why some headphones, like the Sony XM series or B&W PX8, for example, have reduction in this frequencies (because MANY people listening VERY loud!).

Of the iO-12, Solitaire T, Senn HD800 and ML 5909 (4 excellent headphones), I personally ONLY have a problem with the HD800 and 5909 reproducing high frequencies when I'm listening to music more loud. The Solitaire T is probably have the best compromise in this aspect, but the iO-12 is the one that is giving me a more accurate/realistic reproduction of this frequencies from this 4 headphones -- and this is very evident when listening to well-mastered albums (classical, jazz, or good 60s/70s/80s rock and pop albums) with the Dalis, and the nice thing too, at least for me, is that if the masters aren't so good and I'm listening to more loud volumes, the highs aren't generally painful like with the HD800 or 5909.

 

[angelom]

Having used the headphones for about 40 days, there are some conclusions.

I have no complaints about connecting headphones via Type-C cable to PC, they really sound good, amazing. Best solution ever, just for my opinion.

But I got tired of using both USB Bluetooth dongles and my phone also. Perhaps this information will be useful to someone, so I’m writing this.

BTD-800 (Sennheiser-branded) USB dongle delivers good sound (much better than my OPPO phone whule connected via bluetooth), but constantly loses the connection after 10 minutes of inactivity, I have to “dance with a tambourine” several times switching the sound source from headset to my PC (3-4 times back and forth, it doesn’t work on the first switch, lol). In very few cases synchronization with the dongle occurs, but the headphones flies to some crazy "supertransparency" mode like a bug of some kind - I start to hear everything in the room like microphones are working on their full (I move my finger over the earphone from below and hear a strong rustling sound of my finger moving) and this cannot be fixed by turning headset off/on. The mode change button does not help too (it becomes double transparent already being in supertransparent mode with double echo sounding and when returned to "ANC off" I still have undesired supertransparency), there is some kind of hard freeze, only a reset helps. Some kind of a serious software bug on connection level. Sad.

Recently I received UGREEN USB Bluetooth 5.3 from Aliexpress ($12), the sound quality is worse than BTD-800 and there are occasional small wheezes every 10 seconds. It’s extremely inconvenient to use it on my work machine under Linux according to that noise inserts; I’ll try it under Windows at home when I have enough time for that.

Also I tested it on a cheap Chinese ORICO BTA-403 USB dongle ($4 lol) - it seems to be stable, although the Bluetooth version is old (4.0). In the output settings, a notification appears that the sound is output through AptX (really?), perhaps this is a fake or they stole the technology? The sound is relatively not bad, although worse than the BTD-800.

Yes, I saw bt-w5 was noticed as working fine. At the same time, I’m not sure whether this new thing will work on my system differently; after all, the dongle is not cheap and is more expensive than Sennheiser’s.

Perhaps the problem can be in my Linux OS (Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop) while using USB dongles. In different Linux systems, numerous problems with wireless connections have previously been noticed for many times, this applies to both Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. But I never had any problem using my old PXC-550 headset, for years!

Btw, my co-worker tried to connect IO-12 to his Xiaomi phone via a Type-C <--> Type C cable (on both ends, perhaps in OTG mode?) and it started working with good quality using internal headphone DAC. Unfortunately, this trick did not work on my OPPO phone.

Perhaps I would not have bothered with all that dongles&stuff and used only my OPPO phone as the main source, but... as I told earlier, the sound seems to be kind of flat to me, no wow effect, no drive, no juicy sound, on any eq setting and without it too (comparing after I listened through the BTD-800 and through the Type-C cable from the PC, the overall sound quality is very different on different devices).

I return to the idea that Sony and Samsung were probably and remain the best phones for listening on Android, with the best sound settings, if we consider use via Bluetooth. I experienced the wow effect for years and even danced while walking when I used my PXC 550 with my old Sony Xperia X Mini phone (unfortunately, both are not working as for now), but now there’s only little pleasure in listening, I catch myself thinking that I’m constantly skipping tracks, as if trying find one that sounds brighter than the previous one. So I was convinced that the presence of AptX codec does not mean that our sound will be rich and powerful on output.

I apologize for possible mistakes in my reply, I don’t know the language very well, but I try not to use a translator but to write on my own

I know that this is meaning spending more money for you (I'm sorry!), but I think is a good idea that you trying the Creative BT-W5, possibly the best BT dongle in the market today.

 

[musingclouds]

I'm wondering how many people are listening via USB cable vs Bluetooth? If USB, any recommendations on brand of cable?

I'm trying to maximize the sound without resorting to EQ and after owning them for over a month I'm finding the bass to be somewhat anemic. I don't use the Bass mode because it doesn't just add bass, it destroys the highs. I don't know how anyone could listen to these with ANC off because that totally removes the bass.

I was told Supra Cables are very good, but haven't looked into it myself. Right now I use an Anker USB-C cable and haven't noticed any issues.

 

[Dalmonegrig]

I return to the idea that Sony and Samsung were probably and remain the best phones for listening on Android, with the best sound settings, if we consider use via Bluetooth. So I was convinced that the presence of AptX codec does not mean that our sound will be rich and powerful on output.

Samsung doesn't support Bluetooth codec aptX HD, it does support Bluetooth codec aptX.

Bluetooth codecs

Codec	Logo	Bit Depth	Sampling Rate	Max Sample Rate	Max Bitrate	Introduced	Audio latency
aptX		16 bit	44.1 kHz, 48 kHz	48.0 kHz	352 kbps	2009	~ 40-70 ms
aptX HD		24 bit	44.1kHz, 48kHz	48.0 kHz	576 kbps	2016	~ 250-400 ms

Bluetooth codec aptX, sound quality is worse compared to, aptX HD, AAC, LDAC, LHDC, UAT.

 

[Faketastic]

Hi. Another first time poster and long time lurker. I´ve had the IO-12 for a week now, coming from a pair of Airpods max for the same usecase. This time I wanted one pair of headphones that cover "everything" and after deciding against the Bathys, the IO-12 it was.
So far I'm really impressed and I really smile more when listening to music now. But, I have one issue; when walking, sitting on a bus or in a car with minor movement, there is a faint "rattling" sound from the right ear cup. It's not loud so I can only hear it with acoustic music, but it's very distracting. Listening to Bill Callahan walking in a moderate pace and the rattling could easily be heard.
Anyone else experiencing the same issue? I just wanted to check before I go back to the store.
Thanks!

Update on my own issue. Hifiklubben in Gothenburg are awesome and replaced my unit for a new pair in store. It was something wrong with the right cup ANC. All happy now

 

[streetbeat]

Perhaps the problem can be in my Linux OS (Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop) while using USB dongles. In different Linux systems, numerous problems with wireless connections have previously been noticed for many times, this applies to both Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. But I never had any problem using my old PXC-550 headset, for years!

Hello from a fellow Linux user here I have no issues with BT-W5 on Dell XPS 13 with Debian 12 installed. The only issue with iO-12 is Adaptive LL with cracks and pops, while for example 5909 is flawless in all modes. Native Bluetooth connection is great on XPS 13 either.

 

[Dalmonegrig]

5909 is flawless in all modes.

Have you compared the sound quality:
Dali iO-12 + aptX HD
Mark Levinson 5909 + LDAC
Which option, in your opinion, sounds better?

 

[streetbeat]

Have you compared the sound quality:
Dali iO-12 + aptX HD
Mark Levinson 5909 + LDAC
Which option, in your opinion, sounds better?

My ears aren't so blessed I'm afraid I mean, I don't hear codec difference.

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

Ok. I’ve spent a few hours and did some a/b comparisons with the momentum 4. Basically everything streetbeat said was accurate. The sub bass in the m4 is and always has been fun. But my goodness the detail and the incredible way that sounds float off into the distance on the Dali. Soundstage too ( although the momentum has a nice sound stage as well…just not as wide. Basically the m4 sound like headphones in comparison. That said…the m4 puts up a worthy competition. It really does and if I weren’t a/b testing I wouldn’t know any better. lol. Are the Dali and m4 $1000 apart on sound alone? No. A couple hundred? Maybe. The momentum crushes them on battery but the build and sound stand out on the Dali. Kinda struggling with the difference in price overall though.