[Sonic Defender]

I'm curious to know if the driver matching issues that plagued beyer headphones have been improved on? Back in the day people would get several different sets of the 1st gen T1 and they would all measure differently and also mismatched left and right drivers were frequently reported. Perhaps I'm not remembering correctly, but those were reasons that had in the past kept me from investing in the T1 (not to mention I felt the 880 was very comparable SQ wise).

 

[hanselmann]

  I'm curious to know if the driver matching issues that plagued beyer headphones have been improved on? Back in the day people would get several different sets of the 1st gen T1 and they would all measure differently and also mismatched left and right drivers were frequently reported. Perhaps I'm not remembering correctly, but those were reasons that had in the past kept me from investing in the T1 (not to mention I felt the 880 was very comparable SQ wise).

We  have very strict qulity control. For drivers it's a test process in several steps including a pairing of left and right drivers for minimum devitiations. Of course the acoustic final measurements would also reveal if something went wrong in between.
DT 880 was maybe comparable on the frequency response side and is, of course, a very well respected audiophile headphone, but in terms of resolution and distortion the T 1 was and is always the superior choice,

 

[plakat]

   
Well they did make the A2. Not sure if that's an upgrade to the A1 though since I haven't heard that one. 

The appearance definitely got much better. the gray neck belt of the A1 always bothered me. The A2 is a real beauty I think.

 

[Youth]

 
The appearance definitely got much better. the gray neck belt of the A1 always bothered me. The A2 is a real beauty I think.

 
Indeed. Also like the design of A20. 

 

[HaVoC-28]

  We  have very strict qulity control. For drivers it's a test process in several steps including a pairing of left and right drivers for minimum devitiations. Of course the acoustic final measurements would also reveal if something went wrong in between.
DT 880 was maybe comparable on the frequency response side and is, of course, a very well respected audiophile headphone, but in terms of resolution and distortion the T 1 was and is always the superior choice,

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf
 


Is the T1 really better in distorsion ?
 
Sometimes there could be some issues in QC , it's human ...
 
Or some types of measurements are more favorable to DT 880 ? 

 

[Hansotek]

Thanks @Hansotek
for your information, that helps.
I will check out the new Enigma Acoustics Dharma D-1000, I have lcd-x, so I am
not getting another planar headphone.
It seems the Dharma D-1000 doesn't require dedicate Amp as Stax?

They do not. The electrostatic tweeter is self-biasing. Technically, you can drive the Dharma with an iPhone, if you really want, but it will sound much, much better out of an amp, obviously.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Am I remembering incorrectly when I say that the T1 was well known for having mismatched drivers sometimes? Hopefully somebody here can confirm or refute this as it is important to clarify. If it was the case that there was driver matching issues at beyer then it is relevant to ask how this problem was resolved if it was a problem at all. Don't Grado for their more expensive headphones above the Prestige line guarantee driver matching with .5 or 1 db? Does beyer attempt to set a similar standard?

 

[Hansotek]

They are different, no doubt. The T1.2 is a vast improvement over the first version. Against the HD800, they are two very different flavors. The HD800 is still much more spacious sounding and transparent, but an argument can definitely be made for the T1.2 in terms of musicality and "fun" factor. There is always a risk involved with the HD800 that you will be annoyed by the treble... it's very much a headphone I would recommend that you try before you buy. With the right amp or mods, there is some improvement to be had in this area, but I've always preferred a well amped stock HD800 to a modded one.

The T1.2 is much safer in terms of treble now and adds a bit of extra warmth for good measure. I still don't find it to be as detailed, spacious or clear as the HD800, but it will be a lot easier to enjoy, I think, for many people. I think people who are looking at both of these should also be looking at the Enigma Acoustics Dharma D-1000 and the Mr. Speakers Ether, which split some of the differences between these two well known flagships.

To my ears, the Dharma takes the massive soundstage of the HD800 and combines it with the musicality of the T1.2. The Ether gets all the way up to the HD800 in terms of clarity, but might be a tad less musical relative to the T1.2, depending on your preferences. (I, personally, don't find it any less musical, but YMMV.)

Together, I think the 4 of them provide a nice spread in terms of options for a neutral, clear and spacious flagship in that price range. It's nice that there are a couple of options in the middle now to split the difference.

Hd 800 technically is almost unbeatable, but for music it does not have musicality right? K701 also was technically better than Hd650, but more people prefered HD650 right? For mixing 800 is unbeatable i guess...

I disagree on both fronts. I actually find the HD800 to be very musical and engaging. When my non-audiophile friends have tried it, usually their jaw is dropped wide open for the first minute or so, and then they're dancing all over the place. It's just super unforgiving. It needs the right gear and recordings, but when it has those, it simply erases itself... There's no more headphone... You are right there with the band.

You can debate the technological perks of the K701 and the HD650. They are different in a way that doesn't really make either one "more advanced", per se. I guess a lot of people prefer the HD650... I also think a lot of people never gave the K701 the high voltage levels it needs to excel. Most of the K701 complaints I've read sound like the pitfalls of an underpowered K701. I think it's a better headphone than people give it credit for.

 

[SSL443]

  Am I remembering incorrectly when I say that the T1 was well known for having mismatched drivers sometimes? Hopefully somebody here can confirm or refute this as it is important to clarify. If it was the case that there was driver matching issues at beyer then it is relevant to ask how this problem was resolved if it was a problem at all. Don't Grado for their more expensive headphones above the Prestige line guarantee driver matching with .5 or 1 db? Does beyer attempt to set a similar standard?

 
I remember this as well. However, I don't recall the issue being recorded in units with serial numbers over 5000.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/574139/t1-channel-imbalance-and-beyer-tesla-headphone-variance-issues

 

[jdpark]

  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf
 


Is the T1 really better in distorsion ?
 
Sometimes there could be some issues in QC , it's human ...
 
Or some types of measurements are more favorable to DT 880 ? 

It would be interesting to know if those numbers reflect 'burn in', since the general "T1" vs. the serial #3964 show quite different sound signature and distortion measurements. While the 880 600 ohm seems to show a sharper treble peak than the T1 #3964, it seems smoother than the general "T1", making me wonder if that was a new one, or something. 
 
Also, the impedance curve on the T1 makes it seem very difficult to drive on paper. I realize it was actually supposed to be very sensitive, but seriously, a 1400 ohm impedance in the bass area? I doubt many amps can handle that easily, but I'm not an expert on this subject (or any audio science subject actually). 

 

[technobear]

Also, the impedance curve on the T1 makes it seem very difficult to drive on paper. I realize it was actually supposed to be very sensitive, but seriously, a 1400 ohm impedance in the bass area? I doubt many amps can handle that easily, but I'm not an expert on this subject (or any audio science subject actually). 

Oh dear!

How many more times do we have to dispel this particular piece of misinformation?

We must have been through this a hundred times already.

An impedance peak or rise means that the headphone will draw LESS current and is there EASIER to drive and MORE efficient in that region of the frequency spectrum.

See here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-impressions-and-discussion-thread/9555#post_11842204

and here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-impressions-and-discussion-thread/9405#post_11803724

and the ensuing discussions.

 

[SSL443]

  It would be interesting to know if those numbers reflect 'burn in', since the general "T1" vs. the serial #3964 show quite different sound signature and distortion measurements. While the 880 600 ohm seems to show a sharper treble peak than the T1 #3964, it seems smoother than the general "T1", making me wonder if that was a new one, or something. 
 
Also, the impedance curve on the T1 makes it seem very difficult to drive on paper. I realize it was actually supposed to be very sensitive, but seriously, a 1400 ohm impedance in the bass area? I doubt many amps can handle that easily, but I'm not an expert on this subject (or any audio science subject actually). 

 
The 880 has significantly more damping than the original T1, i.e. it has some damping at all. Thus, the smoother treble. The peaks and nulls in the T1 response are almost certainly due to untreated cup and driver resonances.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I have to admit that I found my 880 600 ohm version from the same kit sounded every bit as good as a T1 (original version). I still think beyer needs to really take the design to the next level as several new players in the marketplace have really moved the line forward and beyer is playing catch up. If I was coming to market with a revamped T1 even if it was a little more in price I would make darn sure it mopped the floor with the original, not just tweaked it a little. More bass is required, it can stay clean, but simply extending it isn't quite enough, a little more quantity is required. I'm a beyer fan, loved my 880 and 770, but the T1 just doesn't seem like it is keeping up in the sound quality wars. To be fair, beyer isn't making 2K + headphones, but still beyer, seriously, make the T1 the real deal even if it needs to sell for a two or three hundred more (and don't invest this in fancy boxes or stands, what a waste of money, put it into SQ).

 

[Arniesb]

I sure think that both Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser are making something special... Maybe in 2016 CES they would present something?...

 

[HaVoC-28]

  It would be interesting to know if those numbers reflect 'burn in', since the general "T1" vs. the serial #3964 show quite different sound signature and distortion measurements. While the 880 600 ohm seems to show a sharper treble peak than the T1 #3964, it seems smoother than the general "T1", making me wonder if that was a new one, or something.
 

 
Burn in don't affect that much distorsion figures nor frequency response curve .