New Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Generation)

[cjs001]

A bit amusing that you're looking for music to suit your headphones instead of the other way round no? 

 

[Peridot]

At the moment I'm listening to Samantha Crain - Elk City
 
You can talk about cables and connections all you like ... all I know is that I've smiled more, laughed more, cried more, and danced more while listening to my favourite songs on these insanely great headphones 

 

[Peridot]

  A bit amusing that you're looking for music to suit your headphones instead of the other way round no? 

 
I think it was a polite way of saying "take your off-topic discussion elsewhere"
 
I'm pleased abhinit90 did so as I was going to be far less polite and probably would have regretted it later. 
 
Anyway, while we're still off topic, can everyone please go and listen to Samantha Crain, just to hear how great she sounds on the T1.2s 

 

 

[upstateguy]

 

"I know all the reasons why 1 meter runs of balanced cables are theoretically nonsensical."

"Anytime I ever ran balanced cables into my 2 channel stereo I never heard a single difference whatsoever."

And yet, without a whimper, you have allowed yourself to claim improvements that you know can't possibly be there.

When, deep in your thinking process, you know scientifically, that what you are hearing is the volume increase between balanced and single ended.

Ok God. Thank you. Got it.

 
Would you care to explain that?
 
Edit:  In the meantime I have set up a poll  http://www.head-fi.org/t/801575/poll-who-has-balanced-their-t1-version-2

 

[cjs001]

I can't hear differences between the two,but that's on other setups and not the T1s. While I agree that people should exercise caution and rethink the value of certain things in the audio market, the poll is quite pointless since individual hearing isn't a democratic process and it proves nothing as there is no way of measuring reliably what others actually perceive in audible detail.

 

[upstateguy]

I can't hear differences between the two,but that's on other setups and not the T1s. While I agree that people should exercise caution and rethink the value of certain things in the audio market, the poll is quite pointless since individual hearing isn't a democratic process and it proves nothing as there is no way of measuring reliably what others actually perceive in audible detail.

 
The poll was not out to prove anything and it was not intended as a way of measuring what others hear or to make a judgement about it.
 
Since nordkapp was so insistent on what he heard, and since I've known Peter (MacedonianHero) for a number of years and I pretty much hear things the way he describes, I thought I'd investigate this a little further.
 
The purpose of the poll was:
 

1. To see how many T1 owners have balanced their headphones

 

1. And to see if the guys who balanced their T1s could hear any difference between single ended and balanced

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
The poll was not out to prove anything and it was not intended as a way of measuring what others hear or to make a judgement about it.
 
Since nordkapp was so insistent on what he heard, and since I've known Peter (MacedonianHero) for a number of years and I pretty much hear things the way he describes, I thought I'd investigate this a little further.
 
The purpose of the poll was:
 

1. To see how many T1 owners have balanced their headphones

 

1. And to see if the guys who balanced their T1s could hear any difference between single ended and balanced

 
Hey Eric:
 
The only thing I'd say is if an amplifier is designed balanced, then go balanced to get the entire circuitry engaged and to my ears the T1Gen2's do benefit from it on my GS-X Mk2. The T1 Gen 2s are surprisingly harder to drive than the originals and I find that they do sound better (and not just louder). Not night and day better, but worth it for me. But if one's amplifier is not balanced, I wouldn't sweat it and sit back and enjoy! Just my two cents...

 

[upstateguy]

 

   
The poll was not out to prove anything and it was not intended as a way of measuring what others hear or to make a judgement about it.
 
Since nordkapp was so insistent on what he heard, and since I've known Peter (MacedonianHero) for a number of years and I pretty much hear things the way he describes, I thought I'd investigate this a little further.
 
The purpose of the poll was:
 

1. To see how many T1 owners have balanced their headphones

 

1. And to see if the guys who balanced their T1s could hear any difference between single ended and balanced

 
Hey Eric:
 
The only thing I'd say is if an amplifier is designed balanced, then go balanced to get the entire circuitry engaged and to my ears the T1Gen2's do benefit from it on my GS-X Mk2. The T1 Gen 2s are surprisingly harder to drive than the originals and I find that they do sound better (and not just louder). Not night and day better, but worth it for me. But if one's amplifier is not balanced, I wouldn't sweat it and sit back and enjoy! Just my two cents...

 Hi Peter....how are you doing?  Did you have much of a winter in the icbox this year?  It's been really mild down here in NY.  Do you hear anything from Sharose?  He should be doctoring somewhere by now.
 
Regarding the T1s: I've heard some other GSX owners say similar things when comparing their balanced outputs to their single ended outputs..... I'm not sure what to make of it because technically the only thing that should be there is the volume increase, unless maybe there's a difference in impedance somehow, either in the circuit or the cable.
 
Anyway, I agree with you completely, that if someone has a balanced amplifier, they might as well use it the way it was designed.

 

[MacedonianHero]

 
 Hi Peter....how are you doing?  Did you have much of a winter in the icbox this year?  It's been really mild down here in NY.  Do you hear anything from Sharose?  He should be doctoring somewhere by now.
 
Regarding the T1s: I've heard some other GSX owners say similar things when comparing their balanced outputs to their single ended outputs..... I'm not sure what to make of it because technically the only thing that should be there is the volume increase, unless maybe there's a difference in impedance somehow, either in the circuit or the cable.
 
Anyway, I agree with you completely, that if someone has a balanced amplifier, they might as well use it the way it was designed.

 
Very mild winter...one of the best I can remember. We 63 degrees on Saturday...just awesome! Haven't heard from S in a long time. Most likely those Dr. hours have taken much of his time.
 
It's more headphone depended really on the GS-X. I've heard some re-cabled Grado's balanced and un-balanced and it didn't really make a difference. But for some reason, it does with the T1Gen2, HD800/HD800S/HE1000/LCD-3/4. No discernible differences with the HE-X though.

 

[nordkapp]

Would you care to explain that?

Edit:  In the meantime I have set up a poll  http://www.head-fi.org/t/801575/poll-who-has-balanced-their-t1-version-2

Sure. My initial statement, if you could actually understand what I said, was that to me, the balanced cable was mandatory, At no point did I ever state that to be the absolute truth for everyone. But in your quest to criticize and patronize people here to feed your narcissistic ego, you immediately decide to take me to task for stating my opinion, simply because you happen to disagree with it. Measurements are one dimensional sir. I prefer to let my subjective side decide what I like, not little engineers with their fancy numbers and science. The "God" comment was to try to get your attention, as you sadly come across as one who believes he knows everything. That said, I wish you all the best. I will not be commentimg on this subject any longer.

 

[upstateguy]

 

Would you care to explain that?

Edit:  In the meantime I have set up a poll  http://www.head-fi.org/t/801575/poll-who-has-balanced-their-t1-version-2

Sure. My initial statement, if you could actually understand what I said, was that to me, the balanced cable was mandatory, At no point did I ever state that to be the absolute truth for everyone. But in your quest to criticize and patronize people here to feed your narcissistic ego, you immediately decide to take me to task for stating my opinion, simply because you happen to disagree with it. Measurements are one dimensional sir. I prefer to let my subjective side decide what I like, not little engineers with their fancy numbers and science. The "God" comment was to try to get your attention, as you sadly come across as one who believes he knows everything. That said, I wish you all the best. I will not be commentimg on this subject any longer.

QFT
 
Edit:
 
LOL my, my, my look who's really grouchy. 
 
Resorting to personal attacks and name calling is very unbecoming nordkap.
 
I must have inadvertently hit a nerve.  Didn't mean to.
 
You made a silly statement about balanced cables and then contradicted yourself by saying that you knew all the reasons why it shouldn't make any difference.
 
I  did not disagree with you. I was letting you know about a discussion that took place here, 4 years before you joined.
 
I'm just passing along information from the "little engineers with their fancy numbers and science" who posted it years before the mainstream manufacturers, knowing that louder will sound better, jumped on the balanced bandwagon to exploit the volume difference between balanced and single ended. 
 
Is this discussion from many years ago something that should be withheld from the general population?  I don't think so, because it's very easy to get tricked into thinking louder sounds better?  To prove it, there's an entire industry that's counting on this exploit. 
 
So it's OK to use your ears, and I think we all do, but I guess my only point is to be wary of the louder sounds better exploit.......  (which even brought us the loudness wars)
 
"Yes, I think this thing [balanced] took on a life of it's own and pretty soon companies started to realize they could sell more gear at higher profits if they made the gear "balanced."
 
Peace brother and all the best.

 

[nordkapp]

QFT

Edit:

LOL my, my, my look who's really grouchy. 

Resorting to personal attacks and name calling is very unbecoming nordkap.

I must have inadvertently hit a nerve.  Didn't mean to.

You made a silly statement about balanced cables and then contradicted yourself by saying that you knew all the reasons why it shouldn't make any difference.

I  did not disagree with you. I was letting you know about a discussion that took place here, 4 years before you joined.

I'm just passing along information from the "little engineers with their fancy numbers and science" who posted it years before the mainstream manufacturers, knowing that louder will sound better, jumped on the balanced bandwagon to exploit the volume difference between balanced and single ended. 

Is this discussion from many years ago something that should be withheld from the general population?  I don't think so, because it's very easy to get tricked into thinking louder sounds better?  To prove it, there's an entire industry that's counting on this exploit. 

So it's OK to use your ears, and I think we all do, but I guess my only point is to be wary of the louder sounds better exploit.......  (which even brought us the loudness wars)

[COLOR=0000FF]"Yes, I think this thing [[/COLOR][COLOR=0000FF]balanced[/COLOR][COLOR=0000FF]] took on a life of it's own and pretty soon companies started to realize they could sell more gear at higher profits if they made the gear "balanced."[/COLOR]

Peace brother and all the best.

Ok Upstate, you managed to drag me back. Only because I happen to have an interesting story for you. But first, this. At the moment, between both stereo and headphone rigs, minus the $160 spent on the excellent Beyer balanced cable for T1.2, my systems total cable worth is, I suspect <$100. Cables include Best Buy speaker cable, usb cables straight from Staples and the online store USB Gear. Various interconnects from radio shack. There is a pair of very old MIT snake oils thrown in there from many years ago. Experience has taught me, as I have already stated ad nauseum, this: 1) this hobby is full of the absolute worst conman, charalatans and BS artists I have ever seen. 2) it is also full of people who claim an monopoly on absolute truths. Clearly I do not place much emphasis on ancillary equipment. So, you are basically preaching to the choir, as they say. So that said, onto my story. One of my patients is a former regional sales rep for Sony and Benchmark Audio, and I happened to see him today. This guy knows his stuff inside out. Of course I had to pick his brain regarding this silly discussion. He basically agreed with you. But did note that any subjective improvement in sound, as you are well aware, is likely from 1) changes in distortion values on said cable 2) possible circuit design of amplfier and 3) psycho-acoustic placebo effect from loudness level. Draw what ever you want from this. I still stand behind my praise of this stupid cable. P.S. I am well aware of the loudness wars-I've read Stereophile and TAS for nearly 20 years now. . Peace Upstater. I give you credit. You are tenacious

 

[jincuteguy]

  mmmm.....the 2nd gen is worth the wait. I like it a lot. Beyer fixed what's wrong with the T1 and, a big plus for me, the option to replace the stock cable with 3rd party cable. I don't miss the T1 at all.

What's wrong with the original T1?

 

[sk3383]

What's wrong with the original T1?

There's nothing "wrong" with the original T1's.

I think its safe to say, at least in my opinion, that Beyerdynamic must have had their ears to the ground so to speak, listening to the feedback from various publications ("professional reviewers") as well as the subjective views, comments, chatter, etc. from the general public including the head-fi forums and alike.

After taking in and evaluating the response I believe they decided to make a revised version of the T1 that addressed some of the concerns/shortcomings of the original.

That being said there are some who may prefer the signature of the original offerring.

Myself, well.. I prefer the revised 2nd generation.

 

[sk3383]

There are many additional factors when having the conversation of singled ended vs. balanced headphone ouputs.

Much of which, will vary greatly between manufacturers, designers, circuits, etc., etc.

In addition to higher output voltage, which was brought to light earlier. Let us not forget that often there is a difference in output impedance between the connections. Typically there's a higher output impedance for the balanced outputs which may or may not be published by the manufacturer.

Also, another key note is that we are all under the assumption that the designer has voiced both the singled ended and the balanced outputs to sound identical which may be entirely untrue.

Its not only about the circuit, design and parts, its about the implementation!