New Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Generation)

[cjs001]

Well, if you can afford it, then it's all about your wants. If you like and want it, get it. Otherwise, save up, spend it on something more worthwhile.
 
Personally, I don't see a point of an expensive DAC if and especially IF your music already sound great from your Amp and Headphone setup. The improvement you will get from an entry-mid-range DAC vs a high-end one will be marginal. It's not going to blow your mind out of the water or make you see raptor jesus.
 
For example I've tried the Chord Hugo TT off the Audeze LCD-X and the Beyerdynamic T1 Gen 2. Were they good? Yes most definitely. Did they blow my mind from the sheer awesomeness and improvement in sound? Nope. Not in the slightest. In fact, the T1 sounded too cold and analytical next to the LCD-X.
 
As for "upgradable", well technology moves pretty quick. Sound quality will probably not change that much, but features definitely will.
 
Just my two cents.

 

[nordkapp]

  Thank you for the suggestions.  My mentality is as such:  I have marvelous headphones and am so pleased with the more expensive amp, so if I have to delay to get a better DAC, and be set with it, I will.   
 
Is "upgradable" a strong recommendation?  

Peter, I am going to be listing my CIAudio Transient MKII DAC and the dedicated power supply (VDC-MK5) later on today on both Headfi and Audiogon. Asking $575. Paypal. Shipping included. Both pieces are perfect in every regard w/very light use. If interested let me know. My Audiogon user name is gadmanrdh-check my feedback there. Mike.

 

[Arniesb]

Thanks, TJ Max,

I will look into it.   

Right now, I am thinking Bifrost, but unfortunately, it is not for sale at Amazon currently (where my credit awaits me), so I am looking for something of similar quality.  


I am amazed how nice the T1.2 is, with the A20, and for work, I sometimes have them on for hours at a time and they are so comfortable.  I did not think I would like the synthetic leather more than the leather, but I do.  

Any other recommendations close to the Bifrost?


Elementary question:   Since I am happy with the A20 amp, I assume I should get a DAC only, not DAC/amp combo.  I don't want to do anything to interfere with the beautiful sound of the A20.  Is this a correct assumption?  Or, is a Dac/amp ok to get?  (I wonder if the Wolfson DAC in the a200p is the same one in more expensive DACs....)

I think you should look for Very neutral dac, because A20 and T1 2nd have both very forward lower midds. A20 have neutral upper mids, but T1 2nd recessed upper mids. Also a20 neither T1 or A20 is last word for bass tightness or speed or control... I think similar signature dac to odac should bring you best results. I think if you pick warm dac you will make both lower mids and bass bloated and soundstage would felt closed in. Personally for me A20 voice tuning is really bad. They gone all out for punchiness and warm ant the result is : Detail lacking, bass lacking speed, control, definition, upper mids is lifeles, treble is not clean. ****y tuning of an amp.

 

[plakat]

I've always had an interest in the Henry Audio DAC, but never came around to give it a try. At least not yet. To me it looks like a solid simple and inexpensive DAC, a good starting point similar to the small Schiit offerings. One can always move on later according to budget and perceived needs. I would not spend a fortune on a first DAC to be honest.

 

[pctazhp]

  Question for T1 (2) users....
 
Since pairing T1.2 with the A20 and in listening heaven, I am going to get a stand-alone DAC with some credit I have from Amazon.  
 
Suggestions?
 
Bifrost is suggested, with good reviews.  (not currently at Amazon, however).
 
Stand alone DAC (no amp)  Price tag is under $500, seated permanently with the A20.  Beyer recommends one with RCA connection in their Q & A, while avoiding any specific recommendation.  
 
I am hoping from an opinion, specifically, from the Beyerdynamic T1.2 fans, since matching synergy would be helpful.  
 
Thanks!  

Peter:  I have both the Valhalla 2 and the BiFrost Multibit.. I'm not a big fan of the Valhalla - in my opinion my Elise is in a totally different league. But I am very impressed with my Bimby. I don't have a lot of experience with high end headphones, but back in the day I had easily more than $80,000 invested in a 2-channel, vinyl based, super high-end speaker based system. So I know a little big about what sounds good and what doesn't. 
 
I find it difficult to believe you are going to find a better DAC at or near the $600 Bimby price range - particularly among single ended DACs. Unless you plan to later upgrade to a balanced amp running your T1s balanced, I think it would be a waste of money for you to buy a balanced DAC. The Bimby was designed by Mike Moffatt, Back in the earlier days of digital, he designed the Theta 5 DAC. I owned it and it is still considered one of the best DACs ever produced.
 
Speaking of upgrade. I know I'm a lone voice crying in the wilderness here, but I truly think the Elise-T1 combination is a match made in heaven. If you ever think about another amp, I strongly recommend you check out the Feliks Elise. It is one of the most cost-effective pieces of electronics I have ever encountered. Actually, that is being unfair to the Elise. It is one of the best sounding audio electronic pieces I have ever heard, period.
 
I apologize if I posted this information (or opinion) here earlier. I can't remember if I responded to you.
 
Anyway, I hope you are enjoying your new T1s as much as I am mine ))))

 

[henriks]

I have not even received my T1,2 and already thinking about balanced..

  I have thougth about Adl Stratos and Oppo ha-1, or should i keep my Violectric v200 and buy a good dac instead(Chord 2Qute)?

 

[knorris908]

  I have not even received my T1,2 and already thinking about balanced..

  I have thougth about Adl Stratos and Oppo ha-1, or should i keep my Violectric v200 and buy a good dac instead(Chord 2Qute)?

Because I'm considering balanced too....

 

[cjs001]

  I have not even received my T1,2 and already thinking about balanced..

  I have thougth about Adl Stratos and Oppo ha-1, or should i keep my Violectric v200 and buy a good dac instead(Chord 2Qute)?

Unless you intend to have a very long cable connection and the area you live in is rife with EMI, (ie. smack next to a radio station, or listening to music next to an MRI machine) unbalanced should work just as well seriously. Unbalanced are shielded too, just not as effective compared to the balanced when cable length is really long.
 
Balanced has it's place in studios and broadcast stations because they usually encounter high EMI due to their close proximity to broadcasts towers and the need to pull long cables to the presenters etc. They have very little benefit whatsoever if your cable length is short.
 

Balanced audio

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Balanced audio is a method of interconnecting audio equipment using balanced lines. This type of connection is very important in sound recording and production because it allows for the use of long cables while reducing susceptibility to external noise.
 
...
 
If the power amplifiers of a public address system are located at any distance from the mixing console, it is also normal to use balanced lines for the signal paths from the mixer to these amplifiers. Many other components, such as graphic equalizers and effects units, have balanced inputs and outputs to allow this. In recording and for short cable runs in general, a compromise is necessary between the noise reduction given by balanced lines and the cost introduced by the extra circuitry they require.

 

[henriks]

Thanks. i'm keeping my Violectric

 

[plakat]

There are (at least) two things people refer to by "balanced" in audio: the balanced interconnects @cjs001 mentioned above and what might better be called symmetric amps (or more general circuits) that combine two paths per channel, resulting in double output amplitude, no common ground, double the output resistance and the need for 4 connectors for a stereo signal (due to the now missing common ground). This is more likely what @henriks was thinking about...

While many love balanced (I'll stay with the more common name) per se, I don't see real value in general. It does help with very power hungry planars, but I'm with the Chord guy who said that a clean unbalanced design is much easier than a good balanced one. Only caveat: to me the T1.2 did sound its best with its balanced cable on a V281. I did not hear an improvement with the original version though. If one is fine with the sound signature of the T1.2 everything is good. If not... Chances are small that getting a balanced amp changes this. The money might better be thrown towards another headphone...

 

[ev13wt]

@plakat

Thanks for your reply. I'll keep it this way then.

Could someone take a look at the measurements of my T1.2, and give your opinion if you think the imbalance is acceptable? The more pronounces S is pretty distracting.. A 5 and 3 db difference at two frequencies, is that unacceptable? Beyer says their measurements are fine. 

http://i66.tinypic.com/2ijj47b.png[/img

What is your sine wave sweep source? I can't believe that Beyer send out such "slightly mismatched" drivers in 1000 Euro headphones. How many measurments runs did you do? Did you take the headphone off each tome? Have you tried sending left to right and right to left to rule out the source?

 

[Abupa]

@ev13wt I send you a pm

 

[Peter Hyatt]

Interesting update on the T1.2
 
I did bring them on my trip from cross country, along with in ears.  I used my iPhone and O2 (on my lap) and no neighbors could hear my music over the steady low roar of the engines.  I was on United  (it was noisy).  

 

[bavinck]

I am always surprised how open my dt880s sound, and yet they leak very small amounts considering their design!

 

[knorris908]

There are (at least) two things people refer to by "balanced" in audio: the balanced interconnects @cjs001 mentioned above and what might better be called symmetric amps (or more general circuits) that combine two paths per channel, resulting in double output amplitude, no common ground, double the output resistance and the need for 4 connectors for a stereo signal (due to the now missing common ground). This is more likely what @henriks was thinking about...

While many love balanced (I'll stay with the more common name) per se, I don't see real value in general. It does help with very power hungry planars, but I'm with the Chord guy who said that a clean unbalanced design is much easier than a good balanced one. Only caveat: to me the T1.2 did sound its best with its balanced cable on a V281. I did not hear an improvement with the original version though. If one is fine with the sound signature of the T1.2 everything is good. If not... Chances are small that getting a balanced amp changes this. The money might better be thrown towards another headphone...

Regarding the caveat, did you use the actual Beyerdynamics balanced cable, or an aftermarket one? If aftermarket, what one?