New Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Generation)

[DBX1]

  OK
 
At long last I have some observations to offer regarding the Sennheiser HD-800, Beyerdynamic T1 ver. 2, and unexpectedly, the Beyerdynamic T1 original...
 
The Beyerdynamic originals were shipped to me by mistake, and our original auditions were performed with those BELIEVING that they were ver. 2s.  ( didn't watch videos about them until afterwards as I didn't want to have preconceptions colouring our judgements.  But afterwards, I saw that the headphone cables weren't removable, so called the vendor, who next-day'ed the version 2 direct from Beyerdynamic without question.  (Good service for a product shipping mis-step.)
 
So again, with the round-after round auditions, but this time with the ACTUAL version 2 Beyerdynamics.
 
No need to drag it out.  With our Schiit Audio ASGARD 2, iFi Micro iDSD, and iFi Micro CAN amps; the breakdown was with very little variation
 

1. T1 & HD-800 neck & neck with almost every music track, DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, FLAC 44.1, or MP3
2. The HD-650s came in noticeably "second" to the HD-800 & T1 in all genres except blues or old-time 60s-80s "funk"  Think "Brothers Johnson" or "Funkadelic"

 
When the T1 2nd versions finally arrived, they just sounded as good as the 1st versions right out of the box.  After some burn-in, I went back and re-auditioned everything.
 
The 2nd version is VERY close to the 1st version.  I wouldn't say that they are "Sonically" different from each other.  At most, I'd say that the version 2s have the same characteristics, but the "jaggedness" of the upper end is smoothed a bit, but not lost.  The mids remain largely identical, and the bass is VERY close, but on certain tracks (Think Plant Ps' "Why Me" or Holst's "Mars The God of War") 
 
So in the end, for our household (STOCK); the Beyerdynamic T1 version 2 (Or even originals) are the best all-rounders.
 
The HD-800 are VERY nice!  Close/neck&neck with the T1s.  If you are interested in spending more to "Tube roll", modify headphones, or buy multi-thousand dollar amps in eternal pursuit of "The perfect sound", then I would not argue against claims that the HD-800 simply scales-up to even greater heights.  IT IS an incredible headphone, and has a noticeably "larger" soundstage.  But for us simple folk, who just want to plug-in and listen to incredible music from just about anything, the T1 (Either version) wins hands-down.
 
Audition List:
Windows 10 64-bit
FOOBAR2000 ver 1.3.5 (Flat Audio Profiles) / JRIVER Media Center 21  (Flat Audio Profiles)  All DSP enhancements "OFF"
iFi Micro iDSD USB DAC / FIIO e17 USB DAC
iFi Micro iDSD AMP / FIIO e17 AMP / iFi Micro iCAN AMP / SCHIIT Audio ASGARD 2 AMP
 
Music Files:
192kHz 24-Bit FLAC
DSD 2.8MHz 1 Bit DSF
44.1 16-Bit FLAC
Old, 8-Bit MP3
 
Bands:
YES
Van Morrison
Thelonious Monk
The Mood Blues
The Eagles
The Alan Parsons Project
Tesla
Simon & Garfunkle
Rush
Roger Waters
Ravel
Rachmaninov
Queen
Planet "P"
Pink Floyd
Peter Gabriel
Mozart
Michael Jackson
Miles Davis
Meatloaf
Metallica
Lionel Richie
Linked Horizon (Outstanding Fusion Mixture)
Kitaro
John Denver
Holst
Hayden
Hans Zimmer
Genesis
Funkadelic
Eric Clapton
Eddy Grant
Deep Purple
Daft Punk
Chesky Records (Ult. Demo Disc)
Billy Joel
Beethoven
Asia
Arturo Sandoval
AC/DC

Nice writeup about the comparisons between the headphones.

But I find that there are discernible audible differences between the T1-V2 vs the HD800 (on a McIntosh MHA100 Headphone Amp) when I auditioned the two.  The differences were not subtle.  I would say that each headphone would compliment the other.

The T1 is more recessed in the midrange area compared to the HD800 - the HD800 is more forward and is smooth from midrange to the treble area.

I find that the T1 does bass well without being a bass-head headphones, where-as I found the HD800 bass to be recessed.

I find that the T1 had a bit more extended treble and a unique signature over the HD800.

Both headphones have excellent clarity throughout the entire music spectrum.  The T1 has a recessed midrange vs. the HD800 is recessed in the bass area.

I found that the Grado PS1000 has a sound very similar to the HD800 during my audition, with the exception in the bass area - the PS1000 stands out exceptionally well (same for the T1) over the HD800 recessed bass output.  Like the HD-800, the PS1000 and the T1 compliments each other very well.

Owning any one or any combinations of the headphones I mentioned are all clear winners in my book.  I just happened to fall in love with the PS1000 more than the HD800.

Although I must say regarding the soundstage, I cannot say that I heard any distinguishable differences or any clear-cut winner between the HD800 vs. the T1 or the PS1000.  Due to the design of the PS1000, it may be the winner over the other two.  However, I have read from many how exceptional the soundstage is on the HD-800.  I don't know if the same readers had a chance to compare the soundstage between the PS1000 and the HD-800.

The lack of hearing any distinguishable soundstage differences may be due to my limited time between all three headphones during my audition.

 

[nordkapp]

Final setup fur much longer period. Thank You Beyer for V2.

Very nice.

 

[supersonic395]

I don't know if this the correct way of putting it, but do the earpads "break-in" for an even greater than great fit?
 
Because that's what has happened with my T1.2's

 

[plakat]

I don't know if this the correct way of putting it, but do the earpads "break-in" for an even greater than great fit?

Because that's what has happened with my T1.2's

Earpads do get softer with usage, yes. After some years (depending on material, actual usage and environment conditions such as exposure to direct sunlight) they have to be replaced.

 

[Peter Hyatt]

T1 (2nd gen) questions from newbie:
 
 
1.  *At moderate volume, is the T 1 (2) acceptable to use on a lengthy flight?   I do not wish to disturb anyone next to me but the length of the flight (s) is such that in ear would not be as comfortable. 
 
2.  Is the Fiio E 12 amp strong enough to drive them?
 
3.  Is the Beyerdynamic A200p strong enough as well?  
 
4.  Opinions on the T1 (2) with Objective 2 amp? 
 
4b.  Anyone familiar with the Beyerdynamic A20 and how it might compare to the O2, while using the T1's (2)?
 
5.  **Does the detachable cable make the upgrade quite valuable?  Over the years, headphone cables went on me, especially as I have lots of kids.  This seems to me to be something long overdo for high end headphones like Beyerdynamic.  Is this something that is as prone to break as I think it is?   
 
 
I have not found clear info on low ohm v high ohm (32 v 300) in terms of sound quality.  If anyone can comment on this, or provide a good non-tech source, it would be helpful.  
 
 
I recognize that some answers may be in the thread, as I make my way through it entirely.  
 
Thank you.  

 

[Turrican2]

T1 (2nd gen) questions from newbie:


1.  *At moderate volume, is the T 1 (2) acceptable to use on a lengthy flight?   I do not wish to disturb anyone next to me but the length of the flight (s) is such that in ear would not be as comfortable. 

2.  Is the Fiio E 12 amp strong enough to drive them?

3.  Is the Beyerdynamic A200p strong enough as well?  

4.  Opinions on the T1 (2) with Objective 2 amp? 

4b.  Anyone familiar with the Beyerdynamic A20 and how it might compare to the O2, while using the T1's (2)?

5.  **Does the detachable cable make the upgrade quite valuable?  Over the years, headphone cables went on me, especially as I have lots of kids.  This seems to me to be something long overdo for high end headphones like Beyerdynamic.  Is this something that is as prone to break as I think it is?   


I have not found clear info on low ohm v high ohm (32 v 300) in terms of sound quality.  If anyone can comment on this, or provide a good non-tech source, it would be helpful.  


I recognize that some answers may be in the thread, as I make my way through it entirely.  

Thank you.  

I can help with a few:

1) if I was sitting next to someone with semi-open headphones I would request to move seat!

4) I tried the pono player with the t1, it 'drove' them to acceptable volume but the sound was weak. I attached the o2 to the mix and the sound was really spectacular, it is certainly more than capable of driving these!

5) detachable cable only valuable if you want the flexibility of using beyerdynamic cables. If you want to cable roll you are out of luck as they use proprietary 3.5mm connectors, I am not happy about that .... But if it's just to alleviate your worries about replacing a faulty or damaged cable, then yes, worth it.

 

[plakat]

  T1 (2nd gen) questions from newbie:
 
 
1.  *At moderate volume, is the T 1 (2) acceptable to use on a lengthy flight?   I do not wish to disturb anyone next to me but the length of the flight (s) is such that in ear would not be as comfortable. 
 
2.  Is the Fiio E 12 amp strong enough to drive them?
 
3.  Is the Beyerdynamic A200p strong enough as well?  
 
4.  Opinions on the T1 (2) with Objective 2 amp? 
 
4b.  Anyone familiar with the Beyerdynamic A20 and how it might compare to the O2, while using the T1's (2)?
 
5.  **Does the detachable cable make the upgrade quite valuable?  Over the years, headphone cables went on me, especially as I have lots of kids.  This seems to me to be something long overdo for high end headphones like Beyerdynamic.  Is this something that is as prone to break as I think it is?   
 
 
I have not found clear info on low ohm v high ohm (32 v 300) in terms of sound quality.  If anyone can comment on this, or provide a good non-tech source, it would be helpful.  
 

 
Ad 1.: I think seats on a plane are not a good place for semi-open (read: not closed) headphones -- either way: they leak out and you'll hear the engines. I'd recommend a pair with good isolation and if in-ears are not comfortable for you in that setting you might want to look into the DT1770, which is of high quality but isolates much better than the T1.
 
3.: depends on the volume you're expect... on a plane it might be not enough.
 
Hope that helps a bit...

 

[nordkapp]

  T1 (2nd gen) questions from newbie:
 
 
1.  *At moderate volume, is the T 1 (2) acceptable to use on a lengthy flight?   I do not wish to disturb anyone next to me but the length of the flight (s) is such that in ear would not be as comfortable. 
 
2.  Is the Fiio E 12 amp strong enough to drive them?
 
3.  Is the Beyerdynamic A200p strong enough as well?  
 
4.  Opinions on the T1 (2) with Objective 2 amp? 
 
4b.  Anyone familiar with the Beyerdynamic A20 and how it might compare to the O2, while using the T1's (2)?
 
5.  **Does the detachable cable make the upgrade quite valuable?  Over the years, headphone cables went on me, especially as I have lots of kids.  This seems to me to be something long overdo for high end headphones like Beyerdynamic.  Is this something that is as prone to break as I think it is?   
 
 
I have not found clear info on low ohm v high ohm (32 v 300) in terms of sound quality.  If anyone can comment on this, or provide a good non-tech source, it would be helpful.  
 
 
I recognize that some answers may be in the thread, as I make my way through it entirely.  
 
Thank you.  

Ok, I'll chime in. Here's my 2 cents worth:
       1) They are "semi-closed" but still leak a lot of sound-I'd say NO for a flight.
       2/3) Both those amps are portables. They likely will drive them but those phones are designed for a home environment-not mobile. Don't get too hung up on impedance numbers-they are quite sensitive and as a result can be driven by portable devices however your sound will suffer. 
       4) A20 all the way.
       5) I personally have no use for expensive after-market cables but yeah if you do break them it's a simple fix.

 

[plakat]

The T1 is not impossible to drive with mobile devices, I just tried with my AK320. Setting output around 120/130 (out of 150) gives me enough volume, 150 is definitely much louder than I'd like. This is unbalanced directly out of the device, with the optional amp on high gain its fine for me between 110 and 120.
 
There is a 32Ohm version available through A&K... still the missing isolation makes the T1 unsuitable for flights.

 

[GoSUV]

The Chord Mojo does drive the T1.2 adequately without breaking a sweat, but I agree with what others have said regarding the lack of isolation for the "semi-open" T1.2 - although it leaks less than fully open phones like the HD800 or T90, you wouldn't want to use them in a flight still. If Beyer's sound does intrigue you, the upcoming T5p.2 should be quite interesting, as it is closed and should be an improvement over the original T5p, which can sound a bit bright and bass-light.

 

[The Walrus]

  T1 (2nd gen) questions from newbie:
 
 
1.  *At moderate volume, is the T 1 (2) acceptable to use on a lengthy flight?   I do not wish to disturb anyone next to me but the length of the flight (s) is such that in ear would not be as comfortable. 
 
2.  Is the Fiio E 12 amp strong enough to drive them?
 
3.  Is the Beyerdynamic A200p strong enough as well?  
 
4.  Opinions on the T1 (2) with Objective 2 amp? 
 
4b.  Anyone familiar with the Beyerdynamic A20 and how it might compare to the O2, while using the T1's (2)?
 
5.  **Does the detachable cable make the upgrade quite valuable?  Over the years, headphone cables went on me, especially as I have lots of kids.  This seems to me to be something long overdo for high end headphones like Beyerdynamic.  Is this something that is as prone to break as I think it is?   
 
 
I have not found clear info on low ohm v high ohm (32 v 300) in terms of sound quality.  If anyone can comment on this, or provide a good non-tech source, it would be helpful.  
 
 
I recognize that some answers may be in the thread, as I make my way through it entirely.  
 
Thank you.  

1. Yes, the person next to you would be disturbed. Even though you said "at moderate volume", moderate volume will not be enough on a plane because you don't have any isolation with open (or semi-open) back headphones and you probably will need higher than moderate volumes that may even damage your hearing in long term. You would be better off with comfortable closed-back HP's that provide good isolation if you don't feel comfortable with IEM's. 
2 - Yes, I use FiiO E12 and it can efficiently drive T1. E12 is one of the most powerful portable HP amps out there. 

 

[nordkapp]

Get the T5p Peter....Sounds like a no brainer at this point.

 

[Peter Hyatt]

The first generation T5p sound is wonderful!   

 

[plakat]

 
The first generation T5p sound is wonderful!   My concern has been that to me, with lots of kids around me, the detachable cord is really important.  
 
I do wonder about the sound quality differences.  I don't travel via plane a great deal; though in my business, it may end up being more in 2016, and all things being equal, I am not sure what the tangible differences are between 600 ohm and 32.  I continue to search the forum, though.   
 
thank you!  

The T5p Gen. 2 will have removable cables just as the T1.2 does, it should be available starting with February. See this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/791328/new-beyerdynamic-t5p-2nd-generation
 
The main difference between high and low impedance headphones is the weight of their voice coil (i.e. the part that directly drives the membrane): the higher the impedance, the thinner the wire used to build the coil, the lighter the coil. Minimizing the moving weight may improve impulse response, which may lead a a touch better treble resolution.
 
There is another thing to high impedance headphones: they can be used with OTL (output transformer-less) tube amps, which do not work reliably and / or cleanly with low impedance loads. If you don't know what that is, this is probably not important to you anyway

 

[knorris908]

  T1 (2nd gen) questions from newbie:
 
 
1.  *At moderate volume, is the T 1 (2) acceptable to use on a lengthy flight?   I do not wish to disturb anyone next to me but the length of the flight (s) is such that in ear would not be as comfortable. 
 
2.  Is the Fiio E 12 amp strong enough to drive them?
 
3.  Is the Beyerdynamic A200p strong enough as well?  
 
4.  Opinions on the T1 (2) with Objective 2 amp? 
 
4b.  Anyone familiar with the Beyerdynamic A20 and how it might compare to the O2, while using the T1's (2)?
 
5.  **Does the detachable cable make the upgrade quite valuable?  Over the years, headphone cables went on me, especially as I have lots of kids.  This seems to me to be something long overdo for high end headphones like Beyerdynamic.  Is this something that is as prone to break as I think it is?   
 
 
I have not found clear info on low ohm v high ohm (32 v 300) in terms of sound quality.  If anyone can comment on this, or provide a good non-tech source, it would be helpful.  
 
 
I recognize that some answers may be in the thread, as I make my way through it entirely.  
 
Thank you.  

I can tell you that I would not use either the T1 or HD-800 on a plane.  The environment would intrude upon the audio, and I think you'd lose a lot of the nuances that they both do so well.  Secondly, and possibly most importantly, your neighbors WILL hear sound.  It might just be annoying buzzing to them, but it will be noticeable to anyone in close proximity, and especially a passenger seated next to you.  When my wife sits next to me on the couch, I can hear whatever she is listening to pretty clearly from either the T1 or HD-800.
 
I would say the e12 is powerful enough to drive the T1s nicely.  I used them with the e17, and it worked nicely.  More volume than I would usually need at home when maxxed-out to volume 60, but certainly never truly LOUD.
 
I can't help you with questions 3 or 4, but for me, the removable cables is a big advantage for when I move to balanced amps.  Easy upgrade with no rework like I'd need to do on the version 1s.
 
Hope this helps at least a little.
 
 
Ken N.