[sajunky]

Changing topic slightly, was there a conclusion whether DI-20HE is worth the extra price over the DI-20? I know everybody who has the HE version loves it. I just can't find if anybody had them both and compared.

@sajunky pointed out the DI-20 (regardless of version) is not going to help much with the R-8 MK2 but

I made a comment about DI-20, not DI-20HE. DI-20HE is in a different league, I also helps R-7HE.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I made a comment about DI-20, not DI-20HE HE is in a different league, I also helps R-7HE.

So let me rephrase and ask if you feel the DI-20HE is worth the extra price over the DI-20 *and* if it will be expected to help with the R-8 MKII

 

[sajunky]

So let me rephrase and ask if you feel the DI-20HE is worth the extra price over the DI-20 *and* if it will be expected to help with the R-8 MKII

There is no question about. Not only price wise justified, but highy recommended. Place it close to R8, I remember your posts trying 5m USB cables, but you found a solution already.

 

[PhMZ4]

I don't disagree. But do you want a base price raised by many thousands of dollars? And there is no room inside the r7 at the moment for that.

we can still be pragmatic in this journey and start small while thinking bold....

One first suggestion would be to remove the power supply into a separate enclosure and leave room for the clocks and related shielding, while starting with of the shelve OCXOs having the right specs on a detachable board for future upgrades.... that would not dramatically increase the cost of the DAC, maybe 30% as a rough estimate.

 

[DACLadder]

@gimmeheadroom If you already have well conditioned power then the HE power devices may not be much benefit. Kingwa suggested that to one customer who has an older M7S DAC with regen AC supply. Just depends on your system.

And your other question... Mutec dealers (honest ones) in the EU, like Thomann's, will not sell to US customers as there is a price protection agreement between sellers. That is why US dealers never have bargain sales on Mutec products. The 2nd Mutec Ref 10 is the higher speced Ref 10 SE120 (-120db/hz) and sells for $6500us.

For bargain 10M clock there is the Gustard C16 OCXO. Around $650us. Specs at -100db/Hz @ 1hz.

 

[sajunky]

we can still be pragmatic in this journey and start small while thinking bold....

One first suggestion would be to remove the power supply into a separate enclosure and leave room for the clocks and related shielding, while starting with of the shelve OCXOs having the right specs on a detachable board for future upgrades.... that would not dramatically increase the cost of the DAC, maybe 30% as a rough estimate.

There is no room in a current R-7, but in the new mk2 version is going to be a lot of space, it is due to the re-designed power supply, as already seen in R-8mk2. I posted a photos to illustrate how much. And a space around a pair of clock oscilators is indicative that provision is already made for the add-on clock module.

 

[FredA]

There is no room in a current R-7, but in the new mk2 version is going to be a lot of space, it is due to the re-designed power supply, as already seen in R-8mk2. I posted a photos to illustrate how much. And a space around a pair of clock oscilators is indicative that provision is already made for the add-on clock module.

We'll see. Far from sure the R7 will be as compact cause in the current version, it uses 2 CPLDs on the digital board. The r8 does not.

 

[DACLadder]

There is no room in a current R-7, but in the new mk2 version is going to be a lot of space, it is due to the re-designed power supply, as already seen in R-8mk2. I posted a photos to illustrate how much. And a space around a pair of clock oscilators is indicative that provision is already made for the add-on clock module.

You will have to redesign power supplies for the additional load of two OCXOs plus deal with the heat they generate inside the DAC. It would drive up costs for a base model.

Accusilicon has OCXOs that operate at 90M and 98M. The AS509s. They spec really well at -86db/hz @ 1hz which is 27dB better than the Accusilicon TCXOs. Cost a fortune and again need about 6 watts each when heating up. May be the way to go for a flagship uber DAC.
http://www.accusilicon.com/docs/AS509.pdf

 

[sajunky]

We'll see. Far from sure the R7 will be as compact cause in the current version, it uses 2 CPLDs on the digital board. The r8 does not.

It is no point to dispute with @FredA.
Number of CPLD/FPGA's doesn't matter when a clock module goes over the top.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

There is no question about. Not only price wise justified, but highy recommended. Place it close to R8, I remember your posts trying 5m USB cables, but you found a solution already.

There's a bit of a monkey wrench this morning as I found out the M75n Lenovo is not going to be available. So I ordered the other one but I cannot find complete specs which is very annoying. The M75n was rated to 50 degrees C ambient temp, no information on the one I had to buy. At any rate I'll have the computer right next to the DI-20 if not directly on top of it. Thanks for your comments. I should now consider my finances.

@gimmeheadroom If you already have well conditioned power then the HE power devices may not be much benefit. Kingwa suggested that to one customer who has an older M7S DAC with regen AC supply. Just depends on your system.

I'm using normal wall power via some Eaton protection strips which I like because they have a 15.000 euro guarantee that they'll pay for any device which is damaged while connected to them. Power here seems good, we don't have any outages and the lights don't flicker. Other than that, I have not analyzed it.

And your other question... Mutec dealers (honest ones) in the EU, like Thomann's, will not sell to US customers as there is a price protection agreement between sellers. That is why US dealers never have bargain sales on Mutec products. The 2nd Mutec Ref 10 is the higher speced Ref 10 SE120 (-120db/hz) and sells for $6500us.

Wow, that's a shame. It's usually the opposite btw, we pay more for Beyer and Sennheiser here than Americans do. Just a global trade mess.

I could probably make a business exporting Mutec

For bargain 10M clock there is the Gustard C16 OCXO. Around $650us. Specs at -100db/Hz @ 1hz.

I'll see if there's an audible difference between running the R8 off my Mutec vs. the DI-20. I don't expect to hear much difference since I'll use the R8 in my 2 channel system and I don't have a top headphone amp for that one.

 

[PhMZ4]

@gimmeheadroom If you already have well conditioned power then the HE power devices may not be much benefit. Kingwa suggested that to one customer who has an older M7S DAC with regen AC supply. Just depends on your system.

And your other question... Mutec dealers (honest ones) in the EU, like Thomann's, will not sell to US customers as there is a price protection agreement between sellers. That is why US dealers never have bargain sales on Mutec products. The 2nd Mutec Ref 10 is the higher speced Ref 10 SE120 (-120db/hz) and sells for $6500us.

For bargain 10M clock there is the Gustard C16 OCXO. Around $650us. Specs at -100db/Hz @ 1hz.

What about the Gustard C18 which spec are at 110db/Hz @ 1hz. ?

 

[FredA]

What about the Gustard C18 which spec are at 110db/Hz @ 1hz. ?

Not bad at all. Consider also the Emperor Doubke Crown for 2000€ shipped. And you can have it with a square output, which is preferable. Should be way superior.

 

[DACLadder]

What about the Gustard C18 which spec are at 110db/Hz @ 1hz. ?

First time I heard about the C18 and yes a definite affordable possibility.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hifi-devices/gustard-c18-master-clock-ocxo-10mhz-black-p-15127.html

 

[XavierP56]

I'm a bit lost with all these clocks...
Why are they so expansive ?
I see such items like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333541364404?hash=item4da89d52b4:g:UVwAAOSwUi5eZ6Hk
Would it work with R7-HE 2021 ? Do you believe it could bring an improvement ?
Thanks.

 

[DACLadder]

I'm a bit lost with all these clocks...
Why are they so expansive ?
I see such items like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333541364404?hash=item4da89d52b4:g:UVwAAOSwUi5eZ6Hk
Would it work with R7-HE 2021 ? Do you believe it could bring an improvement ?
Thanks.

The eBay listing is a good one and the best bargain perhaps! -105db/hz Morion MV89A sold by Queen. This is the clock FredA used until this week when he upgraded to the -120db/Hz AfterDark Gliesmann Eva.

The 10M clocks are expensive because ultra low phase noise is rare. Only a select few oscillators make the highest grade. You will pay $$$$ for clocks around -120db/hz. That seems to be the limit of technology of where an oscillator can perform.

Yes, it will work with the R7 HE 2021,