[sajunky]

Kingwa would have to acquire equipement to measure the clocks’ phase noise. This is a significant investment.

Do you really think they have no access to? Kingwa was first in the industry to use Accusilicon clocks and now many are following. I am also sure that he understands that the best clock is a clock installed close to the ladder, not in the external gear.

 

[FredA]

Do you really think they have no access to? Kingwa was first in the industry to use Accusilicon clocks and now many are following. I am also sure that he understands that the best clock is a clock installed close to the ladder, not in the external gear.

I don't know if Kingwa has access.

Some of the most expensive dacs out there have 10M clock input, dCS, for one. And those who own them often use a 10M clock.

Of course, if room is available, putting the clocks inside the dac will alway be better. As long there is room for them. Denafrips does just that with the Terminator Plus. But this drives the cost of the dac up and they can't possibly use the best ocxos out there, the dac would then cost well over 10k.

The 10M input makes sense as far as isolating the clock and allowing future upgrades.

The biggest inconvenient is that you need to synthetize the required frequencies inside the dac. This is where the biggest loss occurs. Not in the transfer from the external unit. Of course this transfer introduces jitter, but not a lot. It is a matter of avoid reflexions and noise, and using a cable with high bandwith, or any recipe that works really.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

You enjoy Fred! The AfterDark gl. Eva is a great price compared to the Mutec. The Ref 10 price increased 1/1/2021 from $4,000 to $4,500us. I would not buy another at the new price.

There is a new version of the Ref 10, I can't find the price yet. Ref 10 is still being sold, price is still unchanged here (3.600 euro) silver model, black surprisingly a bit less around 3.375 euro

 

[PhMZ4]

I don't know if Kingwa has access.

Some of the most expensive dacs out there have 10M clock input, dCS, for one. And those who own them often use a 10M clock.

Of course, if room is available, putting the clocks inside the dac will alway be better. As long there is room for them. Denafrips does just that with the Terminator Plus. But this drives the cost of the dac up and they can't possibly use the best ocxos out there, the dac would then cost well over 10k.

The 10M input makes sense as far as isolating the clock and allowing future upgrades.

The biggest inconvenient is that you need to synthetize the required frequencies inside the dac. This is where the biggest loss occurs. Not in the transfer from the external unit. Of course this transfer introduces jitter, but not a lot. It is a matter of avoid reflexions and noise, and using a cable with high bandwith, or any recipe that works really.

Other high end manufacturers have understood that for long, such as MSBtech and while they implement the option for a 10MHz clock input, they created a modern modular DAC design concept where the clock can be easily upgraded and I don’t think it would be rocket science to have something similar on future AGD DACs...it needs just to be thought from the beginning...

 

[FredA]

Other high end manufacturers have understood that for long, such as MSBtech and while they implement the option for a 10MHz clock input, they created a modern modular DAC design concept where the clock can be easily upgraded and I don’t think it would be rocket science to have something similar on future AGD DACs...it needs just to be thought from the beginning...

I don't disagree. But do you want a base price raised by many thousands of dollars? And there is no room inside the r7 at the moment for that.

 

[JaMo]

Kingwa was first in the industry to use Accusilicon clocks and now many are following

This is not true. As far as I know we found the Accusilicon XO's in Gustard's U16. I talked to Kingwa back then and recommended him to try to get them for his gears. About a month later he had them in his gears or as upgrade options. If there was anybody else before Gustard, that I don't know. Equipment with precision for measurements of phase noise levels and jitter are very expensive and I doubt Kingwa himself have invested in this kind equipment. If he ever should decide to build his own OCXO's he will have to do it. Or at least lease the tools

 

[FredA]

Other high end manufacturers have understood that for long, such as MSBtech and while they implement the option for a 10MHz clock input, they created a modern modular DAC design concept where the clock can be easily upgraded and I don’t think it would be rocket science to have something similar on future AGD DACs...it needs just to be thought from the beginning...

Also, hearing is believing. The way my dac/clock sounds, i am convinced neither the T Plus or May dac is a match for it. I think you need a 50k dac setup to match this because the step i get using the external is big.

 

[sajunky]

This is not true. As far as I know we found the Accusilicon XO's in Gustard's U16. I talked to Kingwa back then and recommended him to try to get them for his gears. About a month later he had them in his gears or as upgrade options. If there was anybody else before Gustard, that I don't know. Equipment with precision for measurements of phase noise levels and jitter are very expensive and I doubt Kingwa himself have invested in this kind equipment. If he ever should decide to build his own OCXO's he will have to do it. Or at least lease the tools

So you are a guilty person?

Mea culpa, I stand corrected. Leasing a lab or the equipment is the option I meant when saying "have access to".

BTW, I didn't mean designing his own OCXO, but using the existing offer. There are ready OCXO oscilator chips in the enclosure of a DIP size with a figure -130dB/Hz. A challenge is to put it in the proper environment, but Kingwa is an expert in power supplies.

 

[FredA]

So you are a guilty person?

Mea culpa, I stand corrected. Leasing a lab or the equipment is the option I meant when saying "have access to".

BTW, I didn't mean designing his own OCXO, but using the existing offer. There are ready OCXO oscilator chips in the enclosure of a DIP size with a figure -130dB/Hz. A challenge is to put it in the proper environment, but Kingwa is an expert in power supplies.

Be respectful to older people, they can teach you some lessons.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I was thinking last night that this site has gone bad. And I was thinking the Audio-gd threads were the only place we were all friends.

 

[FredA]

I was thinking last night that this site has gone bad. And I was thinking the Audio-gd threads were the only place we were all friends.

Yeah. My feeling is the thread is like Kingwa. Kind, open-minded, respectful and helpful. Generous.

 

[sajunky]

A work is in a progress, there is a lot of space around clock chips for a larger module in place. And what you think is a space between transformers for?

 

[FredA]

A work is in a progress, there is a lot of space around clock chips for a larger module in place. And what you think is a space between transformers for?

Don't know, maybe a good spot to keep a Bic Mac warm. Not that i eat this clown sh... No offense.

 

[Jackula]

Also, hearing is believing. The way my dac/clock sounds, i am convinced neither the T Plus or May dac is a match for it. I think you need a 50k dac setup to match this because the step i get using the external is big.

I think you are right, the Plus+Gaia is a lot better but side by side the R7HE+DI20HE still better by a small margin (small enough you could say preferences come into play). While I don't have an external clock, I do imagine the Audio-GD have better potential since you can't upgrade the Plus+Gaia any further. I'm not writing another comparison review, if you want an impression PM me.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Changing topic slightly, was there a conclusion whether DI-20HE is worth the extra price over the DI-20? I know everybody who has the HE version loves it. I just can't find if anybody had them both and compared.

@sajunky pointed out the DI-20 (regardless of version) is not going to help much with the R-8 MK2 but when I get my R8 I'm gonna have to rearrange my shelves and I'll move the Mutec onto my desk...so I'll need another DDC on the shelves where the R8 is going anyway, since I want the AES for another device.