[FredA]

People say all kinds of things. There are plenty of people say that Audio-gd is no good and I am sure there are people in this thread that say it is great. Which statement do we take as gospel to contrast against the measurements?

There are people, many, who think audio-gd does great gears, including myself. We are authentic persons, without any agenda, just exchanging about a passion. As far as i am concerned anyway, can't speak for everyone. But i certainly appreciate the guys on this thread.

Listening impressions, or the measurements gospel. If measurements are not indicative of sound quality, then flush them down the drain. That's my policy.

But again, there is no reason why a line level signal fed to a 100k input load should exhibit any distorsion occuring because of an absence of feedback. In fact, i would argue the feedback design would cause more distorsion in that scenario. With headphones, that is another story most likely. But given the impedances involved, things should not be so bad (and mostly, don't forget how bad IMD is, as this should be null with a non feedback design). For that, i trust my ears. I have excellent hearing, thank God.

It's not everyone who has the hearing to tell apart good sound from bad sound. All they are left with are measurements. Contemplating the graphs, they are just thinking: "these curves look awesome. So glad i bought this gear". Same people who buy art but have no taste for it.

 

[aljordan]

It's not everyone who has the hearing to tell apart good sound from bad sound. All they are left with are measurements. Contemplating the graphs, they are just thinking: "these curves look awesome. So glad i bought this gear". Same people who buy art but have no taste for it.

I have an Audio-GD Master 1 and a Reference 7. As far as my measurement capabilities go (using a Prism Sound Orpheus and a software suite), both measure well. I currently use the Reference 7 in my main system, but I have another preamp that I think sounds better than the Master 1 (but does not measure better). Still, if any piece of equipment that I own shows bad behavior from a measurement perspective, I would definitely want to know if the piece of gear is bad or if my measurements are bad. Nothing good is going to come from insulting a person's hearing capabilities when they offer some bad measurements. I think it would be much better to learn why the measurements are that far off from the designers measurements.

 

[FredA]

I have an Audio-GD Master 1 and a Reference 7. As far as my measurement capabilities go (using a Prism Sound Orpheus and a software suite), both measure well. I currently use the Reference 7 in my main system, but I have another preamp that I think sounds better than the Master 1 (but does not measure better). Still, if any piece of equipment that I own shows bad behavior from a measurement perspective, I would definitely want to know if the piece of gear is bad or if my measurements are bad. Nothing good is going to come from insulting a person's hearing capabilities when they offer some bad measurements. I think it would be much better to learn why the measurements are that far off from the designers measurements.

I was not insulting him. I was just making the the point that it must sound good, first and foremost. He is taking to opposite position.

Maybe there is a problem with the unit and i agree with you it would be best to find out. But i certainly don't trust this guy's measurements, for many reasons.

Nor do i trust any comments on audio-gd from another forum where people are very found of Schiit. On that forum, it is stated that everything audio-gd has done recently measures like crap. I am sick and tired of all that. People have financial interests, most often, in bashing on the internet.

Audio-gd is an easy target. They have no distributor in America. There is not much risk of a legal action. So it's bar-open.

Audio-gd makes great gears for the most part, at a price that is ultra-competitive. This is disturbing for some us-based competitors, and even Chinese ones.
Therefore, i strongly doubt there is anything innocent in this bashing.

Again, i have no reason to trust our new friend, he has made beginner's mistakes in his measuring protocol. It smells really bad to say the least. He has also made what i find to be irrelevant interventions on this forum.

It gives the impression that he wants to frighten people away from audio-gd. It seems to me that he is playing a game.

 

[borrego]

Objectively: There is absolutely no technical credibility for measurements done by a guy who could not even get the stock Amanero driver to work under Windows 10. The same guy claimed he couldn't find the Amanero driver on audio-gd website and dare not decompressing a rar archive... Even my nephew in primary school can do better.

Subjectively: Rarely do measurement reviews are done comparing products from vastly different price points. When it do, the motive behind is always trying to make the more expensive product looks bad.

Seriously: "Bad measurement" can be done so easily to mislead people. I can easily replicate the guy's bad measurement results with my audio-gd gear (or any other of my gears) by plugging into dirty power shared by a hair dryer/air conditional/kitchen blender, playing file off a Windows compatibility mode computer while doing heavy file copying/tons of BT downloads/playing Acestream video at the same times, using garbage RCA/SPDIF cables with oxidized plugs, etc.

 

[Currawong]

This is just nwavguy all over again. If it's not Amir, then one of his numerous staff, or a collective effort. No peer review. No explanation of how the tests for done for individual reviews, including ensuring repeatability. If if there are problems with products he is testing, he clearly doesn't understand what he is doing wrong and doesn't want to know. There's no point in even responding to him.

 

[Baten]

This curve is rather irrelevant.

I'm sure the abysmal (objective) measurements of how Audio-Gd performs is "irrelevant", too. I'm glad i never bought into all the hyping of this brand. You guys are so insanely trying not to see any problems with Audio-Gd.

Someone on reddit shared measurements from a Singapore forum ALSO noticing severe problems. But these are all "non-reproducible" I'm sure. Get real.

 

[FredA]

I have a linear supply coming soon to feed the singxer f-1 (itself feeding the rj45 i2s in of my r2r 7). Currently, it is fed by an intona. The intona intself is fed by a Schiit Wyrd. I will have to take the Wyrd out as i won't have enough outlets available on the balanced transfo i am using for the line level components of my setup.

Speaking of specs. The Schiit Wyrd is rated as outputting only 2.5uV of noise. No frequency range or load is mentioned about this RMS value by Schiit. If you read the TI spec for the regulator they use, the lm723 ( http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm723.pdf ), you find that it's for between 100hz and 10Khz placing a 5uF capacitance at the input. For a 1mA load. A tiny load.

So this figure pf 2.5uV is not telling the whole story. It does include most of the rectifying noise but nothing above 10k. And it's for a 1mA load, so again, the f-1 drawing 150mA, we sure are far from 5uV at the output.

So i am looking forward to hearing a Zerozone lps rated at less than 13uV (no frequency range mentioned either but we are talking of an all discrete design with good and big enough capacitors, and very good parts overall, include a 30VA r-core transfo). It will take about two months to arrive, worst case scenario, looking forward to commentting on its impact.

 

[Whitigir]

Amazing that AudioGD is comparing and making improvements on the very expensive MSB DAC and their modules. I would believe that many people are so pissed off

 

[FredA]

Amazing that AudioGD is comparing and making improvements on the very expensive MSB DAC and their modules. I would believe that many people are so pissed off

The killer is the r2r 11. It can make expensive units look very bad. I am still surprised by how much info it can extract and how cohesive its sound is even after a couple of months. Nothing short or remarkable. It's rather largely diffused so it must be frightening for the competiton. The word is starting to spread out, and perhaps quite a bit in the mainstream community. Audio-gd and Kingwa have striked one out of the ball park.

 

[hyperactiveaudiophile]

+1

 

[FredA]

The killer is the r2r 11. It can make expensive units look very bad.

Hi all,

I think it is sad for whatever reason or objectives these informations are spread. If I as an engineer find these lousy measurrements along with a bad sonic result, I should definately take contact to the company or designer to make them/him/her aware. But this is if I want to help out with a faulty product and ensure that the company can correct if wrong.

The sad thing here is that a bunch questionalable measurements and the setup of it comes up with really aggressive distorison are spred around. A few of the worst I've seen really... It's fishy. ...Or the gear measured must be faulty.

I have a long history of buying and listening to Audio-gd's gears of almost every pricelevel but have never had those problems with any.

So, back to the sad part.... The only reason I can see why anyone should spread these bad measurments around the audio-communities is to bash the company instead of helping them, in this case Audio-gd.

The forums are very important channels for companies like Audio-gd and their selling. You know that, I am sure. And that's what hurts the most.

You want to miscredit instead of helping out. Maybe to boost Your ego, I don't know. Please change that. Use Your skills to help out instead.

Thanks
/Jan

(...right now enjoying my R2R-7 after approx 4 months of burn in... It really has been "taking off" now. Wow!)

Have you really burned it for 4 months non stop? This is 2900 hours or so!

Call me crazy, i am wondering if mine is not still improving after 8 month. I am picking details this morning i was not getting before. Subtle stuff in the background of (old) Sonny Rollins records. I wonder if Kningwa has considered using different resistors to speed this process up. With the r2r 11, the break-in period is a lot shorter. Much fewer precision resistors obviously.

My finding more info is through headphones.

The main difference between the r2r 7 and its little brother are: the r2r 7 is more resolved and has better bass. It's crisper. It has better imaging as well. This difference should be quite obvious with speakers. The litte r2r 11 wins for tonal balance, but this is mainly dependent on the cables i use with the r2r 7. And the match with the other gears.

And on the records, i realize. Which suggests the r2r 11 adds some coloration. A bit like a tube amp would do.

The r2r 7 is really worth it but one has to be willing to do some tweaking and has to be patient with the roller coaster effect. For the impatient, just buy the r2r 11, r2r 2 or r2r 1.

 

[doak]

Have you really burned it for 4 months non stop? This is 2900 hours or so!

Call me crazy, i am wondering if mine is not still improving after 8 month. I am picking details this morning i was not getting before. Subtle stuff in the background of (old) Sonny Rollins records. I wonder if Kningwa has considered using different resistors to speed this process up. With the r2r 11, the break-in period is a lot shorter. Much fewer precision resistors obviously.

My finding more info is through headphones.

The main difference between the r2r 7 and its little brother are: the r2r 7 is more resolved and has better bass. It's crisper. It has better imaging as well. This difference should be quite obvious with speakers. The litte r2r 11 wins for tonal balance, but this is mainly dependent on the cables i use with the r2r 7. And the match with the other gears.

And on the records, i realize. Which suggests the r2r 11 adds some coloration. A bit like a tube amp would do.

The r2r 7 is really worth it but one has to be willing to do some tweaking and has to be patient with the roller coaster effect. For the impatient, just buy the r2r 11, r2r 2 or r2r 1.

The little R2R 2 model has caught my eye. I have no use for balanced and the price even with options and shipping is well under $1K.
Appears very solidly built and engineered piece.
http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R2/R2R2EN.htm

 

[FredA]

The little R2R 2 model has caught my eye. I have no use for balanced and the price even with options and shipping is well under $1K.
Appears very solidly built and engineered piece.
http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R2/R2R2EN.htm

Yes, It's like a r2r 11, with better power supply and a dsp enabling a choice of nos and os modes. Very nice product at this price point. And not so far from the big guys i would assume as the r2r 11 is already excellent. One nice feature is you can dhoose from nos or os mode with a switch on the front panel.

No headphone out however. I assume Kingwa will offer r2r combos at some point, besides the r2r 11. I could be wrong.

It takes longer to burn than the r2r 11, i have read. The r2r 1 takes even longer.

The r2r 7 takes an eternity to settle down, but if you have the setup that goes with it, it's a wonderful dac in the end.

If you buy the r2r 2, make sure you take a look inside. For me, it's art. It has very good craftmanship, even at that price point (i assume it is similar the nfb-1amp). If you do so, you will know where you money went.

 

[garbulky]

I have an Audio-GD Master 1 and a Reference 7. As far as my measurement capabilities go (using a Prism Sound Orpheus and a software suite), both measure well. I currently use the Reference 7 in my main system, but I have another preamp that I think sounds better than the Master 1 (but does not measure better). Still, if any piece of equipment that I own shows bad behavior from a measurement perspective, I would definitely want to know if the piece of gear is bad or if my measurements are bad. Nothing good is going to come from insulting a person's hearing capabilities when they offer some bad measurements. I think it would be much better to learn why the measurements are that far off from the designers measurements.

Please post your measurements. Thanks. At least that woudl show if the measurements match closer to Audio Gd's measurements.

 

[Whitigir]

Measurements can be all rigged, especially show on the internets. Hook a couple of resistors here and there and watch them go crazy , take a pic and post with all of your good claims