[Chopin75]

How about comparing with the lampizator DACs ?

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/lampizator2/1.html

They have 2 definite separate DAC pathway, one is strictly R2R, and the other non-chip pathway for DSD. The DSD is supposed to be really amazing and R2R is so so, at least for the cheaper DACs. Actually you can even order their DAC without any R2R chip and just use the DSD circuit. Not sure if R2R7 has the same kind of design with complete separate pathway for DSD, as you see, it can be done as shown on the design of lampizator. The tube design does help with the sound but may not be to everyone's taste.

 

[Currawong]

Hi all, some questions:

- Anyone with Chord Dave vs R2R 7 experience? I am considering Dave right now.
Thanks!

The DAVE is totally different. I'm actually scared to try a Blu2 and DAVE the next time I'm in Tokyo, because I know that once I'd experienced what they can do, I wont really be satisfied until I owned them.

 

[oneguy]

The DAVE is totally different. I'm actually scared to try a Blu2 and DAVE the next time I'm in Tokyo, because I know that once I'd experienced what they can do, I wont really be satisfied until I owned them.

Where do you go in Tokyo? I’ve never heard the DAVE and would like to give it a listen.

 

[Currawong]

The headphone festival.

 

[motberg]

My r2r7 shipped in the summer of 17 and that came with accurate (I think I may have been the first?)
I'm now back to USB (click is negligible on USB).
My chain is ...
curious => intona => curious => w4s recovery => good USB cable
... and it sounds so good (quicker on it's feet, like lower latency) that my SU1 will likely be reserved for DAC-offs when I need to send the signal in parallel.

+1 here (with R2R-1)
I found the Audio-GD Amanero USB (I have the isolation upgrade) at the same level and in some aspects preferred to my SU-1
The SU-1 was fed with 2x (Uptone LPS-1 + iFi DC iPurifier + LPS) .. all Ghent DC cables.. with Recovery and Singxer UIP-1 in the path.

Voices seem more natural with the Amanero..

That said, a Recovery (fed by Uptone LPS-1 + iFi DC iPurifier + LPS) on the Amanero input does add a bit of treble clarity and bass tightening.. so the stock USB source still responds to such improvements.

As always... YMMV... IMHO.. etc... but for me the SU-1 is not required for the R2R-1

 

[motberg]

But definitely I have noticed a DSD school vs PCM school in the audiophile worlds. I have yet to want to experience the R2R PCM playback to judge for myself

PCM via PCM1704UK is pretty good also !

 

[motberg]

Here is something I ran into (R2R-1 conversation at the Audio-GD forums)

http://bbs.audio-gd.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=2&Id=30728

Quote by Audio-GD... ¨Built-in independent DSD and PCM decoder.¨
(Bing translated)

 

[Wynnytsky]

Last night was my first time hearing an EMM Labs DAC at a friend's place (it was the DAC2X V2)



Aurender N10 was the source, no USB accouterments in the mix, but he went all out on synergistic research wiring (subs are off)

Since he got those metal speakers almost 2 years ago I've been listening to that room evolve with each upgrade. Replacing the 9038 w4s DAC was far and away his biggest improvment. Some people dial in using gear that colors in one direction or another, but his system has always been all about transparency. That worked out because he changed his source very late in the game and everything downstream responded extremely well. A DAC swap realizing an improvement like this is something I'd more expect from headfi, not from speakers operating w/o room correction.

In any case, at some point I'll be able to hear that dac in my place, but my wiring is in a colorful place right now -- I need more time on the hamster wheel!

 

[FredA]

Just did a modification to my setup. For all those using an i2s (with a ddc upstream) or usb connection to the r2r 7, you have a potential ground loop, unless you use a galvanic isolation device like the intona. The problem in my setup was i had not put the intona just before my usb-fed singxer f-1, but the schiit wyrd instead, which would introduce the ground loop. My sound was therefore greatly affected by static electricity, i could hear the spikes getting through the electronics all the way to the the speakers. My idea was to send the best possible dc5v to the f-1. But i realized the intona does also a great job outputting clean 5V, especially being driven by a quiet source like the wyrd. This is the beauty of this set-up: feeding the f-1 with the intona prevents any ground loop involving the usb line past the intona. You cannot achieve the same using a ddc that has it's own power supply, like the su-1. Even with a galvanically isolated output (i2s ot spdif), the ddc can still be affected by a ground loop. The problem with ground loops in the digital domain is the effect are not so obvious. The sound can become lifeless all of sudden without any apparent reason. With the singxer su-1 (and f-1), there is isolation between the usb receiver and the output circuit. But it's not as good as what the intona a provides IMO.

I get no more spikes through the speakers and better sound overall.

I am now considering using an Allo UsbBridge i would set up as a upnp device. I would feed it through ethernet using audirvana. The device would allow me to get rid of the wyrd and perhaps improve the sound quality furthermore (i would still use the intona and f-1). Don't know how well it would work as far as software is concerned but the quality of this usb transport is very high, i.e. jitter and noise are ultra low so i believe there could be a sound improvement using it. I would eliminate a usb cable, which is always a good idea. As mentionend, I don't know how stable the involved sw is so it's a bit of a gamble but then the total investment would be under 300$, including a decent linear supply to feed the usb transport.

Also, I now use audirvana in standalone mode, which is much better than as a plug-in to i-tune. It is more stable and responsive that way and you can select airplay devices as playback device using the audirvana ios remote, which is very convenient when owning more than one system.

The r2r 7 never sounded so good.

 

[Wynnytsky]

The problem with ground loops in the digital domain is the effect are not so obvious. The sound can become lifeless all of sudden without any apparent reason

I recently discovered snapping tiny ferrite cores (from amazon) at each end of the DC cable really helps. I need to try the Ghent. This one cost $11 and it's been good: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253139950358

The problem in my setup was i had not put the intona just before my usb-fed singxer f-1
feeding the f-1 with the intona prevents any ground loop involving the usb line past the intona.

so you'd recommend the intona be last before the DDC? I recall people posting it was best first.

BTW
as of 5pm today I'm back on the SU-1 wagon. My wire situation really sorted out and I gave SU-1's spdif output a try -- no big start/stop pop, yay.
My system hasn't sounded this good since last year -- I'm dumb struck. It's other worldly.
Have to have my friend bring his F1 over again -- need a sanity check.

 

[FredA]

Spoke too soon. Still got the issue with spikes... The sound is great with the component re-ordered anyway.

 

[FredA]

I recently discovered snapping tiny ferrite cores (from amazon) at each end of the DC cable really helps. I need to try the Ghent. This one cost $11 and it's been good: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253139950358



so you'd recommend the intona be last before the DDC? I recall people posting it was best first.

BTW
as of 5pm today I'm back on the SU-1 wagon. My wire situation really sorted out and I gave SU-1's spdif output a try -- no big start/stop pop, yay.
My system hasn't sounded this good since last year -- I'm dumb struck. It's other worldly.
Have to have my friend bring his F1 over again -- need a sanity check.

Well having tried the intona both before and after over quite an extensive period of time with the M7, i remember thinking before was better at some point. In my current setup, so far i like it better after. I will keep is this way for a while. The point is it does not matter much when the components after are usb-fed but it can help to put it after otherwise. The Schiit wyrd has its own psu so...

I don't have any dc psu for now in my setup. The dc cables often come with ferrites. Usb cables as well. Seems like a good idea.

I like the idea of getting a Allo UsbBridge. It can even be used as a roon endpoint, or as a standalone transport (installing Volumio on it). It is very versatile.

 

[Chopin75]

Just did a modification to my setup. For all those using an i2s (with a ddc upstream) or usb connection to the r2r 7, you have a potential ground loop, unless you use a galvanic isolation device like the intona. The problem in my setup was i had not put the intona just before my usb-fed singxer f-1, but the schiit wyrd instead, which would introduce the ground loop. My sound was therefore greatly affected by static electricity, i could hear the spikes getting through the electronics all the way to the the speakers. My idea was to send the best possible dc5v to the f-1. But i realized the intona does also a great job outputting clean 5V, especially being driven by a quiet source like the wyrd. This is the beauty of this set-up: feeding the f-1 with the intona prevents any ground loop involving the usb line past the intona. You cannot achieve the same using a ddc that has it's own power supply, like the su-1. Even with a galvanically isolated output (i2s ot spdif), the ddc can still be affected by a ground loop. The problem with ground loops in the digital domain is the effect are not so obvious. The sound can become lifeless all of sudden without any apparent reason. With the singxer su-1 (and f-1), there is isolation between the usb receiver and the output circuit. But it's not as good as what the intona a provides IMO.

I get no more spikes through the speakers and better sound overall.

I am now considering using an Allo UsbBridge i would set up as a upnp device. I would feed it through ethernet using audirvana. The device would allow me to get rid of the wyrd and perhaps improve the sound quality furthermore (i would still use the intona and f-1). Don't know how well it would work as far as software is concerned but the quality of this usb transport is very high, i.e. jitter and noise are ultra low so i believe there could be a sound improvement using it. I would eliminate a usb cable, which is always a good idea. As mentionend, I don't know how stable the involved sw is so it's a bit of a gamble but then the total investment would be under 300$, including a decent linear supply to feed the usb transport.

Also, I now use audirvana in standalone mode, which is much better than as a plug-in to i-tune. It is more stable and responsive that way and you can select airplay devices as playback device using the audirvana ios remote, which is very convenient when owning more than one system.

The r2r 7 never sounded so good.

Sorry I may not have understood, so are you saying using intone just before F-1 and having F-1 get the PS from UBS via Intona, with no external power supplying to F-1, will work best ? So something like Matrix SPDIF2 would be ideal then, as it can be powered by USB alone:
http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/specifications/160/index.html
And so the chain becomes more simple, only USB cable from source --> Intona ---> Matrix SPDIF2 --> DAC. No DC/other external LPS is needed!
This more simplistic way may work out the best...

 

[FredA]

Sorry I may not have understood, so are you saying using intone just before F-1 and having F-1 get the PS from UBS via Intona, with no external power supplying to F-1, will work best ? So something like Matrix SPDIF2 would be ideal then, as it can be powered by USB alone:
http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/specifications/160/index.html
And so the chain becomes more simple, only USB cable from source --> Intona ---> Matrix SPDIF2 --> DAC. No DC/other external LPS is needed!
This more simplistic way may work out the best...

You understood correctly except i use also a Schiit Wyrd upstream. Before i was putting the intona first, now it's the wyrd. For this setup to be optimal, you need many things ( but don't forget the goal is to minimize the risk of ground loops. It may not be the best sounding setup in all cases):

1. Clean usb power fed to the usb isolator: the Schiit Wyrd only has 2.5uV of noise and a quality usb cable with proper shielding between the data and power line Is used. The conductivity of the cable Is excellent as well. Excellent data transmission will help also.
2. A usb isolator which can output clean usb power and again a quality usb cable. I use one with two trunks for that purpose as it provides perfect isolation between data and power. This cable feeds the f-1 so a high-quality usb cable is mandatory.

Note that The intona could be also fed with a lps using a two-headed usb cable.

 

[Whitigir]

The DAVE is totally different. I'm actually scared to try a Blu2 and DAVE the next time I'm in Tokyo, because I know that once I'd experienced what they can do, I wont really be satisfied until I owned them.

I am not sure if I would agree. The one thing I can say for sure is that with this level of high quality parts, and high performances, all of these products are more than likely to have been surpassed human capacity of observations based on the 5 senses that they have.

Technically speaking, switching power supply on the Dave is not as good as linear power supply. Electricity is like water, a continuous flow is always better than fast switching which create “ripples” and or “distortions”. But then again, our senses are limited, so therefore we may not be able to see or observe the Switching rate of such thing and at speed. Just like fluorescent light and incandescent bulb. We do not see the differences when both are working correctly.

Now, when measured, linear power supply will always perform better than Switching power supply. If both are done right, but again, human can not tell the differences base on their senses.

So then, why do some of us tend to be able to pick apart for example, whether the Dave is better than R2R 7 ?

1/ Bias based on : brand, or pricing.
**Brand: luxurious brand = expensive/unneeded or common brand = affordable/cheap, **Price: cheap = sound bad or affordable , expensive = sound good/can’t be that bad.

2/ Bias based on: personal preferences

When you matched up the 1 and 2. Whichever has more influences will win, or rather, you pick out 2 our of : brand, pricing, performances.

In reality, people has the 3rd “Bias”, which is based on “reputations”. How come brand name got the status that they are ? Because too many good rep, hence marketing. One thing I am sure is that Audio GD does not market advertising as much as Chord, and being originated from China, oh...I can totally see the heavily biased toward the brand. I am so sure that some people would just shake off and turn to Chord Dave.

Even if somebody was to debate that they can tell the differences, then I would ask, from what system ? Headphones ? Amplifier ? Given that each headphones even at references level will carry different sound signatures. They may be very very close when amped and driven right, but they are still different. If you can not even tell it, then 100% you can not tell the differences between references DAC done right, or amplifier. This will net us back into picking 2 out of 3: Brand, Pricing, Personal preferences.

So, in comparison. If you asked whether Dave is better than R2R 7 ? Then you will have to listen to it yourself, and out of your own system rather than going to a shop and dive into plethora of headphones, which would leave you confused even more.

What i am saying is that, just Dive in, and judge it for yourself. Or if you are the kind of folk that is more convinced after reading feedbacks or impresssions, do that as well.

In my opinion, the only way for me to judge these DAC would be my personal preferences. Which one I like better from it signatures. Do I have the money to justify to pocket it ? I careless for brand

Another point Chord wins out is that they developed hardware, software for the Dave, where as R2R7 are technology blend at the best of their knowledges. Hell, Apple wins from their own IOS and chip...very similar