[Wynnytsky]

This is going to confuse people. The only two relevant firmware versions are the standard “smooth” and optional “accurate” versions. Only a handful of people have (had) any others.

My r2r7 shipped in the summer of 17 and that came with accurate (I think I may have been the first?)
When I wanted to take a crack at smooth I was given these files (modification dates of 9/4/17), and I was told they were supposed to address the click
R2R7_IIS3accurate.jic
R2R7_IIS3Smooth.jic
That smooth FW did make breakin a more enjoyable period. These days I'm back to accurate, nos0, jriver's 4xOS

I didn't notice any change in the stop/start click volume over I2S, so there's a good chance I was shipped with this same generation of FW. Because the click is so loud on my 105dB horns I'm now back to USB (click is negligible on USB).
My chain is ...
curious => intona => curious => w4s recovery => good USB cable
... and it sounds so good (quicker on it's feet, like lower latency) that my SU1 will likely be reserved for DAC-offs when I need to send the signal in parallel.

 

[barbas]

My r2r7 shipped in the summer of 17 and that came with accurate (I think I may have been the first?)
When I wanted to take a crack at smooth I was given these files (modification dates of 9/4/17), and I was told they were supposed to address the click
R2R7_IIS3accurate.jic
R2R7_IIS3Smooth.jic
That smooth FW did make breakin a more enjoyable period. These days I'm back to accurate, nos0, jriver's 4xOS

I didn't notice any change in the stop/start click volume over I2S, so there's a good chance I was shipped with this same generation of FW. Because the click is so loud on my 105dB horns I'm now back to USB (click is negligible on USB).
My chain is ...
curious => intona => curious => w4s recovery => good USB cable
... and it sounds so good (quicker on it's feet, like lower latency) that my SU1 will likely be reserved for DAC-offs when I need to send the signal in parallel.

I'm having clicks with the accurate firmware when changing sampling rates or turning on any source (either USB or COAX). Are you saying you do not have any clicks with your fw version over USB?

 

[FredA]

On my system, the clicking is mostly due to the singxer f-1 hooked through i2s. Nothing can't be done on Kingwa's side, i assume. But it's not major so i don't mind.

 

[Wynnytsky]

Are you saying you do not have any clicks with your fw version over USB?

for me that start/stop click on USB is low enough to ignore. Over I2S, if the volume is up high on 105dB speakers, it's like hitting a pothole, then wondering if you'll get a flat. At one point, after stopping a song I would hit mute (I must do so within 3sec), hit play on my next track, then un-mute.

I figured I'd eventually trace this back to a jumper/software/firmware setting -- no such luck

 

[FredA]

Our fellow headfier @Chopin75 invited me today to try dsd converted on the fly by audirvana. He suggested to use dsd64 (by coincidence, i tried an actual dsd64 file on my r2r 11 with great results). Only time i had tried, i used dsd256.

And you know what, it sounds really nice. As good as pcm upsampled to 384/24? To soon to tell. Maybe better. To be continued.

 

[JaMo]

@FredA:

The performance from native DSD64 and DSD128 are stunning on my R2R-7. Has been that all the time. I prefer it over PCM. I am using Linux based sources(players) so 128 bits are the limit. PCM is getting much better now, by the way, but DSD is still superior with my rig.

/Jan

 

[FredA]

@FredA:

The performance from native DSD64 and DSD128 are stunning on my R2R-7. Has been that all the time. I prefer it over PCM. I am using Linux based sources(players) so 128 bits are the limit. PCM is getting much better now, by the way, but DSD is still superior with my rig.

/Jan

Good that you confirm what i am hearing so far. Would you say dsd128 is even better?

 

[JaMo]

@FredA: Yes, for sure. I have also tried by converting great PCM-recordings to DSD128 (DSF) with the Xrecode software with good result. It isn't native but still sounds great.
/Jan

 

[Wynnytsky]

Our fellow headfier @Chopin75 invited me today to try dsd converted on the fly by audirvana. He suggested to use dsd64 (by coincidence, i tried an actual dsd64 file on my r2r 11 with great results). Only time i had tried, i used dsd256.

And you know what, it sounds really nice. As good as pcm upsampled to 384/24? To soon to tell. Maybe better. To be continued.

dsd64 is a bit like the smooth FW - really takes the edge off. The higher the dsd sampling rate the more it will converge with the original PCM.

 

[FredA]

It seems to me that dsd64 has more fluidity and is more resolved than pcm 384/24. Not sure yet. Seems like Kningwa worked some magic on dsd playback. I am quite amazed to not even have explored all the possibilities after 8 months of ownership.

 

[Currawong]

DSD is known to wreck the transient edges of the music, so that is what you're hearing.

 

[FredA]

DSD is known to wreck the transient edges of the music, so that is what you're hearing.

Maybe. It sounds very good anyway. Nice depth also. Very relaxed.

I won't complain. It's like having two dacs in one. It sounds like a well implemented delta sygma dac this way.

 

[FredA]

As JaMo mentioned, dsd128 is even better. Reminds me of a sabre dac only smoother. Spatilization is great, the top end is very smooth but timbres are not as natural and cymbals are are a bit fuzzy. So this is your typical delta sygma character, but the smoothest i have heard. Very black background.

 

[FredA]

Back to pcm, better transcients, timbres. It's like the instruments are becoming alive. But spatialization is not as good and the background is not as black. I like both dsd and pcm but pcm conveys emotion better. Musicality is better. Both have there advantages but pcm wins it for me.

 

[Chopin75]

I got the idea of doing PCM on the fly to DSD from another fellow on Head-Fi but he is in a different thread. He actually abandons PCM altogether and only does DSD, He states he even can play CD and use HQplayer to convert on the fly to DSD. He only uses the DSD stage of the Holospring now and has sold his Pavane! So essentially even the holy grail of R2R NOS DAC may not be good enough ?! I am also wondering if DSD is more forgiving in that even inferior recording is not too bad. I tried a rather mediocre 24//96 file to play as DSD 128 but that sounded too sharp and artificial. However, when I used DSD 64, it sounded so much better, more air, better sound stage and much smoother and more transparent. I tried DXD (24/352) file (beethoven No. 5) and then compared to DSD128 of same track I bought from NativeDSD. They sound a bit different, DXD is more forward, maybe a bit more detailed but it feels like you are sitting 2 rows in front of the orchestra or you are at the recording microphone location itself. With DSD, the soundstage gets deeper, and more air/space between notes & instruments, more like sitting 10-15 roles back (I think that was a forward closed miked recording anyway). This is something others have observed from review I heard about DSD of this same recording. It is actually recorded in DXD and is available in DXD as well as DSD files/SACD. Reviewers love the DSD sound. Interestingly I then use the same DXD file and use audirvana to convert it to DSD128. I can hardly tell the difference between that and the DSD128 fie I bought from NativeDSD. So Audirvana may be that good! (or my DAC is not good enough to differentiate) . Also I am only using a Delta sign chip (ESS sabreDAC) so DSD may be better on such chip (per some expert) than PCM.
Now according to 6 moon, the PCM sounds as good as DSD or at least much closer to DSD.
It would be of interest to see how you guys feel about playing PCM vs DSD on R2R7 using the same file.

Note I feel (my theory anyway) that it would work better to try to convert to DSD that has similar resolution to that PCM file. If I remember correctly :
Resolution of DSD64 is about the same as PCM 24/96s, hence I feel for 24/96 one should be converted to DSD64 and not higher.
For 24/192, should try DSD128, but I have not tried that since I don't have such file yet.
For DXD perhaps DSD256 works best ?

But then it probably depends on both the OS/software and DAC being used.

You guys' input on the DSD sound of R2R7 would be of great help for me to decide if I should get it as I love DSD, ?!?! Hi Res PCM not that impressive but then using a R2R DAC may be quite different. I presume DXD would sound really awesome on R2R7. Anyone tried?