New Audio-gd R-7, R-7HE R-8, R-27, R-27HE, R-28 Flagship Resistor Ladder DACs and DAC/amps

[jimmychan]

You just need to have a custom HDMI cable that swaps R-L channel.

 

[FredA]

You just need to have a custom HDMI cable that swaps R-L channel.

This would invert pcm at the same time, I believe. Better ask for a custom fw.

 

[OCC7N]

Crazy experience:

I have always thought the sound quality, power condition - and my system-sounding-different-during-the-day was depended on power conditioning the: DAC/DDC/AMP. Well it is of course to a degree, but cleaning/isolating the horrible ISP/FMC* unit with a switch that has SFP input/output before the Router(look in my signature). It not only boosted the performance but the sound is the same during the day.

If you are a streamer/gamer/, using the dirty/WAN(internet) side alot, save your time and start at the network first!

I have no fiber on the clean/LAN side....yet, I am still in testing(cheapest multimode sfp from cisco), the sound I have now is 100% a honeymoon experience because Cisco changed the whole sonic character in such a degree, I am starting over. It feels like listening to the system all over again.

Cisco CBS220 feels like a DAC/DDC added to the network:

- Sound: Darker, kick/snare well rounded and deeper(also popping more out) sounding with more density and texture. Sound is in general amplified around 2-3% small elements are more pronounced(less headroom=noise floor?) - most importantly "the air, the ether"....the veil feels like it adds the perfect texture on the instruments.

Example: The information around the pedal of the kick/drum is more visible when it kicks. This is crazy: that network has such an influence....stock switches no mods, however powered with decent power supplies, not stock.

.....

*The ISP/FMC has stock SMPS. will be changed.

 

[FredA]

Crazy experience:

I have always thought the sound quality, power condition - and my system-sounding-different-during-the-day was depended on power conditioning the: DAC/DDC/AMP. Well it is of course to a degree, but cleaning/isolating the horrible ISP/FMC* unit with a switch that has SFP input/output before the Router(look in my signature). It not only boosted the performance but the sound is the same during the day.

If you are a streamer/gamer/, using the dirty/WAN(internet) side alot, save your time and start at the network first!

I have no fiber on the clean/LAN side....yet, I am still in testing(cheapest multimode sfp from cisco), the sound I have now is 100% a honeymoon experience because Cisco changed the whole sonic character in such a degree, I am starting over. It feels like listening to the system all over again.

Cisco CBS220 feels like a DAC/DDC added to the network:

- Sound: Darker, kick/snare well rounded and deeper(also popping more out) sounding with more density and texture. Sound is in general amplified around 2-3% small elements are more pronounced(less headroom=noise floor?) - most importantly "the air, the ether"....the veil feels like it adds the perfect texture on the instruments.

Example: The information around the pedal of the kick/drum is more visible when it kicks. This is crazy: that network has such an influence....stock switches no mods, however powered with decent power supplies, not stock.

.....

*The ISP/FMC has stock SMPS. will be changed.

I use no optical link but have two switches between the setup and the net. Maybe i should add such isolation as well. Anyway, I am not surprised by your findings. The ethernet port is a major contamination source. I found out when adding these switches to my setup.

 

[OCC7N]

I use no optical link but have two switches between me and the net. Maybe i should add such isolation as well. Anyway, I am not surprised by your findings. The ethernet port is a major contamination source. I found out when adding these switches to my setup.

My recommendation is add your best solution before your router, boost its performance.....but only if you prioritise streaming music, movies and also youtube from WAN. For me it is crucial as I also game on my computer.

I am still very sceptic about fiber on the clean side/LAN. However I made a bet with my friend who swears about it.

What optical(Cisco sfp and switch) has done on the WAN side is increasing the "noise floor" small elements has higher level of volume.

The best part of this is you really get to listen to how your router sounds. The Netgate 2100 is remarkable, it did beat another audiophile switch on my system(preference)

The timing and precision together with the full bodied sound of Pink Faun SPDIF Bridge V1 beats both JCAT USB XE and Pink Faun USB Bridge V2, in my current setup/configuration.

--

Another improvement the Ciscos made was improving both bandwith and lowering latency. Netgate 2100 does eat(because of the firewall) bandwith a lot! - this solution lowered this demand from 350megabit to 200megabit(1000/500Mbps -> 800/500Mbps).....Getting a Netgate 6100 will solve this even more(because of CPU power), and it also has SFP on the LAN side.

--

(It looks like I am leaning towards purchasing the 6100 - and if PFSENSE/OPNsense supports the Afterdark adapters, the final step: building my own network reclocker(bridge mode) with Afterdark S1(SFP/WAN side) and X1(RJ45/LAN side)

 

[FredA]

My recommendation is add your best solution before your router, boost its performance.....but only if you prioritise streaming music, movies and also youtube from WAN. For me it is crucial as I also game on my computer.

I am still very sceptic about fiber on the clean side/LAN. However I made a bet with my friend who swears about it.

What optical(Cisco sfp and switch) has done on the WAN side is increasing the "noise floor" small elements has higher level of volume.

The best part of this is you really get to listen to how your router sounds. The Netgate 2100 is remarkable, it did beat another audiophile switch on my system(preference)

The timing and precision together with the full bodied sound of Pink Faun SPDIF Bridge V1 beats both JCAT USB XE and Pink Faun USB Bridge V2, in my current setup/configuration.

--

Another improvement the Ciscos made was improving both bandwith and lowering latency. Netgate 2100 does eat(because of the firewall) bandwith a lot! - this solution lowered this demand from 350megabit to 200megabit.....Getting a Netgate 6100 will solve this even more(because of CPU power), and it also has SFP on the LAN side.

--

(It looks like I am leaning towards purchasing the 6100 - and if PFSENSE/OPNsense supports the Afterdark adapters, the final step: building my own network reclocker(bridge mode) with Afterdark S1(WAN side) and X1(LAN side)

I don't stream at all. The network connection is necessary to remote control my player/streamer and to access a file server. The music never goes through the router, the sw8 is intelligent enough to keep the traffic local. So my main concern is with having an ethernet connection with noise as low as possible.

 

[OCC7N]

I don't stream at all. The network connection is necessary to remote control my player/streamer and to access a file server. The music never goes through the router, the sw8 is intelligent enough to keep the traffic local. So my main concern is with having an ethernet connection with noise as low as possible.

Yeah and you also bypass the router. I would still recommend you put another switch before/after the SW8 if you want to color the sound. The Cisco CBS220 is a no brainer! as you can pair it with a good LPSU.

I think it is 150 dollars or something. No need for the optical part on the switch in your setup(LAN side). However I will test this on my setup with another Cisco switch. Either one more CBS220 or the Merakis MS220-8P or MS120-8P replacing the CBS220 on the WAN -> moving that one to optical isolation/daisy on the endpoint/source....I am soo skeptical that I only do this to confirm my assumption one more time.

----
I did test the CBS220 alone right at endpoint(Netgate -> CBS220 -> Source). It still bettered the Linksys with night and day difference. The Linksys sounds like a very clean deltasigma dac vs the CBS220 which is more authority warm and density/weight/slam!

With the CBS220 it feels like a heater blower is warming the air/atmosphere of the soundstage.

 

[falcon70]

Crazy experience:

I have always thought the sound quality, power condition - and my system-sounding-different-during-the-day was depended on power conditioning the: DAC/DDC/AMP. Well it is of course to a degree, but cleaning/isolating the horrible ISP/FMC* unit with a switch that has SFP input/output before the Router(look in my signature). It not only boosted the performance but the sound is the same during the day.

If you are a streamer/gamer/, using the dirty/WAN(internet) side alot, save your time and start at the network first!

I have no fiber on the clean/LAN side....yet, I am still in testing(cheapest multimode sfp from cisco), the sound I have now is 100% a honeymoon experience because Cisco changed the whole sonic character in such a degree, I am starting over. It feels like listening to the system all over again.

Cisco CBS220 feels like a DAC/DDC added to the network:

- Sound: Darker, kick/snare well rounded and deeper(also popping more out) sounding with more density and texture. Sound is in general amplified around 2-3% small elements are more pronounced(less headroom=noise floor?) - most importantly "the air, the ether"....the veil feels like it adds the perfect texture on the instruments.

Example: The information around the pedal of the kick/drum is more visible when it kicks. This is crazy: that network has such an influence....stock switches no mods, however powered with decent power supplies, not stock.

.....

*The ISP/FMC has stock SMPS. will be changed.

I totally agree with the @OCC7N .
In the last few weeks I've been trying out inexpensive fiber media converters, a couple for streamer isolation, and one for nas (music source).
The effect is incredible. The whole spectrum is much much cleaner and the sound is more holographic. Costing about $150, the effect is greater than adding a DDC for example.
Of course it depends on how noisy your local network is.

Then I bought a Teradak T-S212 fmc, Finisar modules, the effect increased further.
I have no audiophile switch, I think galvanic optical isolation is the key. Especially if you are listening to a streaming source.

 

[OCC7N]

I totally agree with the @OCC7N .
In the last few weeks I've been trying out inexpensive fiber media converters, a couple for streamer isolation, and one for nas (music source).
The effect is incredible. The whole spectrum is much much cleaner and the sound is more holographic. Costing about $150, the effect is greater than adding a DDC for example.
Of course it depends on how noisy your local network is.

Then I bought a Teradak T-S212 fmc, Finisar modules, the effect increased further.
I have no audiophile switch, I think galvanic optical isolation is the key. Especially if you are listening to a streaming source.

I have not been able to take my headphones off the whole day The effect is soo great I agree, however I don´t see the DI20HE as the "normal" DDC - It is much more special for me.

Where did you plant that Teradak? - LAN - WAN

 

[Patswalker]

Looking for sone opinions here from people who can help me with comparing the R28NOS and different models of R27 available specifically being used as a preamp/dac for speakers as well as great headphones when I want to keep the sound low late at night. If what I am looking for has already been discussed in depth could someone please link me to where? I don't want to clog up the flow here by regurgutating a conversation that has already been discussed at lenthg. I an semi-new here and have not yet sorted the ins and outs of being able to find a specific topic in a thread as well used and long as this one here.

So I have been using the R28NOS in my two channel speaker set up for a month or two now and love it. I had no idea I would enjoy it so much for this. I am going optical in from the TV for gaming/movies/tv and coax in from a streamer then XLR preamped out to two Schiit Vidar 2 working at monoblocks powering GR Research XLS Encore and and SVS sub. I love the sound. I previously had the Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and the Shiit Kara but sold those two components almost immediately when I put in the R28NOS. I liked the sound of the Bifrost 2/64 and Kara but I always knew I was listening to that Dac. I find the R28NOS to be both dynamic and very realistic and organic, so much so that the device fades away and I forget that it is there. This is my ideal really. Great sound, realistic stage, wonderful dynamics, and roganic in a way that I don't notice it. It seems to harmonize with the Vidar 2 amps and speakers better to me than Schiit's own dac and preamp did. I find the R28NOS very very good for all kinds of music and movies and shows and gaming with my speakers.

I do want to take the R28NOS back into my office and put it back on my desk as that is where it originally was and what my original intent for it was. So what I want here if possible is to read some expeirnces of the readers of this thread to maybe help me explore the differences between the R28NOS --> R27MK2-->R27RE-->R27HE for equally both speakers and headphones. I am very familar with Audio-GD gear and one of the things I love most about them is how much work they put into the power supplies of their devices the higher up you go. Normally if I were just pulling power from the wall without any filtering I would find it necessary to go right to the R27HE becuase of how good they make their power supplies. That said, I have invested substantially in a great filter/regerator for my room. I live in LA and we have nasty power so I got a wonderful Pine Tree Audio Gatekeeper that everything is hooked up to in my system and it's fantastic. So the question I have to those who may know more than me about the models, with my power already as clean as it is would the jumps still be as great between the R27MK2, R27RE, and R27HE? Or would I be getting like very close to the same sound no matter which model of the R27 I get?

I did reach out to Magna HIFI and their response was...
"I'm glad to hear that the R28 NOS suits you well.
The R27 is however a step up. Bigger soundstage, more detailed, silkier highs...The R27HE is a more holographic soundstage compared to R27 mk2 but not a huge difference. Especially when you already have a good power filter / regenerator the R27HE difference becomes smaller. The difference in size is bigger."

So my thought is to for sure go for a model of the R27 to get more of what I loved in the R28NOS but which model I am going to get I'm still sorting out. Anyone have any advice with upgrading along this R27 path? Any advice from those who know what the different models of the R27 would potentially be with already very clean power?

 

[OCC7N]

Correct R28NOS -> R27MK2 -> R27RE -> R27HE

The only difference between the last two afaik is the better REG psu on HE, even though the RE also have a REG.

I do not own any of the AIO. I would say 27RE(best for the money vs HE) is probably the "highend" buy and the R28 is maybe more "musical" buy. As you go up in Audio-gd you get more serious sound with authority. Thats my experience from R1 to R8

 

[FredA]

Looking for sone opinions here from people who can help me with comparing the R28NOS and different models of R27 available specifically being used as a preamp/dac for speakers as well as great headphones when I want to keep the sound low late at night. If what I am looking for has already been discussed in depth could someone please link me to where? I don't want to clog up the flow here by regurgutating a conversation that has already been discussed at lenthg. I an semi-new here and have not yet sorted the ins and outs of being able to find a specific topic in a thread as well used and long as this one here.

So I have been using the R28NOS in my two channel speaker set up for a month or two now and love it. I had no idea I would enjoy it so much for this. I am going optical in from the TV for gaming/movies/tv and coax in from a streamer then XLR preamped out to two Schiit Vidar 2 working at monoblocks powering GR Research XLS Encore and and SVS sub. I love the sound. I previously had the Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and the Shiit Kara but sold those two components almost immediately when I put in the R28NOS. I liked the sound of the Bifrost 2/64 and Kara but I always knew I was listening to that Dac. I find the R28NOS to be both dynamic and very realistic and organic, so much so that the device fades away and I forget that it is there. This is my ideal really. Great sound, realistic stage, wonderful dynamics, and roganic in a way that I don't notice it. It seems to harmonize with the Vidar 2 amps and speakers better to me than Schiit's own dac and preamp did. I find the R28NOS very very good for all kinds of music and movies and shows and gaming with my speakers.

I do want to take the R28NOS back into my office and put it back on my desk as that is where it originally was and what my original intent for it was. So what I want here if possible is to read some expeirnces of the readers of this thread to maybe help me explore the differences between the R28NOS --> R27MK2-->R27RE-->R27HE for equally both speakers and headphones. I am very familar with Audio-GD gear and one of the things I love most about them is how much work they put into the power supplies of their devices the higher up you go. Normally if I were just pulling power from the wall without any filtering I would find it necessary to go right to the R27HE becuase of how good they make their power supplies. That said, I have invested substantially in a great filter/regerator for my room. I live in LA and we have nasty power so I got a wonderful Pine Tree Audio Gatekeeper that everything is hooked up to in my system and it's fantastic. So the question I have to those who may know more than me about the models, with my power already as clean as it is would the jumps still be as great between the R27MK2, R27RE, and R27HE? Or would I be getting like very close to the same sound no matter which model of the R27 I get?

I did reach out to Magna HIFI and their response was...
"I'm glad to hear that the R28 NOS suits you well.
The R27 is however a step up. Bigger soundstage, more detailed, silkier highs...The R27HE is a more holographic soundstage compared to R27 mk2 but not a huge difference. Especially when you already have a good power filter / regenerator the R27HE difference becomes smaller. The difference in size is bigger."

So my thought is to for sure go for a model of the R27 to get more of what I loved in the R28NOS but which model I am going to get I'm still sorting out. Anyone have any advice with upgrading along this R27 path? Any advice from those who know what the different models of the R27 would potentially be with already very clean power?

Since you like the sound of a dedicated NOS dac, I would suggest getting the r1-nos along with a HE9 LE. This would be an awesome combo.

 

[Patswalker]

Since you like the sound of a dedicated NOS dac, I would suggest getting the r1-nos along with a HE9 LE. This would be an awesome combo.

I actually already have the HE9LE. I am suing it with the Schiit Yggdrasil OG in a different room. Sounds incredible.

I'm looking to get amazing headphone set up in my speaker system and hoping to not need to get a dac then an amp then a preamp then a headphone ampI want the system to be simple but awesome for headphones and speakers. That's what lead me to the R28NOS just to see what it's like in that speaker room. And its so good thats what lead me to the want to go R27.

 

[OCC7N]

Since you like the sound of a dedicated NOS dac, I would suggest getting the r1-nos along with a HE9 LE. This would be an awesome combo.

Dangerous combo!

But adding the DI20HE will surpass the R8H2 performance for an allround sound. RH82 still wins on slow pace music, but thats 5-10% which is still noticeable.

My current R1N setup made me forget R8H2 to be honest. I still enjoy the R8H2 in the weekend for some coffee jazz, cafe del mar.
PF SPDIF Bridge V1 -> DI20HE->R1N->HE-9 LE

 

[Patswalker]

Dangerous combo!

But adding the DI20HE will surpass the R8H2 performance for an allround sound. RH82 still wins on slow pace music, but thats 5-10% which is still noticeable.

My current R1N setup made me forget R8H2 to be honest. I still enjoy the R8H2 in the weekend for some coffee jazz, cafe del mar.
PF SPDIF Bridge V1 -> DI20HE->R1N->HE-9 LE

Appreciate all that info. I'm not trying to add anything to the system. For me the idea is to to the most with the least amount of components. I don't want the Preamp/headphone amp to be separate from the DAC in the speaker room. That system sounds amazing though. I love my HE9LE.