[tumpux]

I ordered a 2020 version of the digital board to retrofit my PCM1704 Singularity 7 DAC. Will give it external 10M capability. The Mk2 will blow it out of the water but external clock should breath new life into this old design.

Would you mind to share the replacement process with us?
Always wonder how difficult it is.

 

[PhMZ4]

Have upgraded my EtherRegen with an SFP 1550nm module to completely isolate it from the my house network…. Again an increase in details, sound stage width and depth…. a super investment this ER…

on another topic, does anyone of you know if Kingwa could finalise the Linux native DSD drivers for the Amanero?

 

[PLGA]

Have upgraded my EtherRegen with an SFP 1550nm module to completely isolate it from the my house network…. Again an increase in details, sound stage width and depth…. a super investment this ER…

on another topic, does anyone of you know if Kingwa could finalise the Linux native DSD drivers for the Amanero?

Hi
I'm sorry for my ignorance, but are there different SFP modules?

I have the ER and I just got fiber a few days ago and I want to try SFP on the ER.

Will any SFP module work with it?

 

[PhMZ4]

Hi
I'm sorry for my ignorance, but are there different SFP modules?

I have the ER and I just got fiber a few days ago and I want to try SFP on the ER.

Will any SFP module work with it?

I tried this one: TP-Link TL-SM321B on the ER side and on the other side a TL-SM321A one, using mono-mode WDM technology.

I‘m quite pleased with the final result, improving a further step the ER improvement…

 

[sajunky]

Some did try fiber to isolate from ground loops and didn't get good results. A reason is that laser generate large current peaks, it goes through your power lines. Did you try WiFi extender on a short LAN cable (running in a network adapter mode)?

 

[Jackula]

With my AfterDark Giesemann Eva now fully burn-in, I'm extremely impressed with the improvements, especially coming directly from internal 10Mhz. I did have a Queen/Morion 10mhz briefly that FredA recommended, which brought some small improvements but the improvements with the AfterDark clock is much more pronounced, even after a few hours' burn-in. I happily lived without the Morion for many months, but I don't think I can go back to vanilla after hearing the AfterDark clock.

As others have mentioned, it certainly is one of the poorer cost-vs-improvement ratio of your upgrades, it's still worth it if you're towards the limits of what you can improve. It's hard to quantify the level of improvement because it improved the sound in a way no other gear upgrades could have done the same.

All my other upgrades so far have revolved around improving transparency and dynamics, such as HE9 to HE1, Supra to DIY USB, Belden to WireWorld HDMI, Invictus (discontinued) ACSS to Robertson ACSS. What the AfterDark clock has done differently is it improved the expressiveness of the sound, without it, it becomes hard and edgy (no the R7HE isn't "hard and edgy", it only sounds that way once you've gotten used to a good external 10Mhz).

While I can't put a % improvement, I can put a % on my level of enjoyment, and I'd say about 50% of going from the HE9 to HE1.

 

[Jackula]

Btw thanks @FredA again for continuously recommending new gear / upgrades for us to enjoy

 

[WindowsX]

I understand what you say and I mostly agree with it: The delay between HE21 and HEMk2 is way too short.
However I'm saying: Don't be disappointed because you have similar sonic performance.

See the other side: Component price did raise a lot. Kingwa managed to get similar performance with Mk2 by keeping the price similar (at $200 more, right).
Kingwa is selling already built R-7HE21 at fair cost (he could have increase the selling price rather than announcing Mk2...).
The Mk2 was designed to be cheaper and easier to produce and keeping it's good performance. It's a technical progress but for the end-user it doesn't matter that much.
It's selling at $200 more than R7-HE21 because component price have raised so much. Covid times impact a lot hardware manufactuers.

If I was a new buyer, I'll be very annoyed to choose, I fully agree with you.
Like you, I had the HE21 just 15 days before Mk2 was announced.
I could be angry against Kingwa but I'm not. I hear great music and paid a fair price for it.
Anyway, one day my HE21 would have become obsolete anyway... So enjoy what you have !

It's not about sonic performance to be disappointed about. mk2 is like design fix with cost reduction to appeal wider market. I'm sure I will prefer 2021 over mk2 design wise for.

"1. Using the latest designed discrete servo stabilized power supply to feed the digital circuits, the noise level is comparable to that of a battery, but without the dry and thin sound characteristics of it, and thus the product's operating temperature is significantly lower than that of the previous model. The clock circuit and the analog circuit are still powered by a pure class-A regulated power supply for the best sound results"

Replacing pure class A circuit on digital for low noise and heat servo? I don't mind heat as I open air conditioning in listening room so I'd rather have pure class A on whole digital circuit not just clock circuit.

"2. By listening to a turntable and studying its sound for a long time, we have successfully integrated the analog vinyl sound characteristics into this product, this being allowed optionally through the front panel. (New feature)"

Both TDA and phono simulation are just simulation. I prefer using better server and deliver good real sound performance that done right without simulation or any other layer of DSP to degrade transparency.

"3. Both the USB and HDMI inputs are equipped with isolators, and two sets of linear power supplies to separately supply power to the USB and HDMI modules before the isolators to prevent interference from signal sources."

Sounds like a good idea but I'd rather have "Both USB / HDMI have built in separate isolator and pure class A isolate power supply." in 2021, especially USB one since it's the best interface that converts USB to i2S before feeding FGPA directly.

"6. The FPGA operates using the parallel data processing mode.
The IIS signal is serial data transmission. Each data bit requires one clock cycle. One frame of left and right channel data requires 64 clock cycles, so stability over a 64 clock cycles is needed.
The parallel mode only needs one clock to transmit and process the 32-bit data of the left and right channels, which greatly improves the processing speed and is less affected by the stability of the clock."

Using parallel processing feels like you trade single ended tube design that provides best tube sound to push pull design for more power. I'm sure this one is done due to customers using budget clock to worsen clock reliability and Kingwa had to do this to keep it stable. But I never have issue with internal clock or my own 10MHz clock design that I spent $4k budget building which I could have bought Mutec 10MHz clock instead.

So, I'm not dissatisfied with this $4k budget DAC's performance at all except it still retain Kingwa's signature of sharp and precise performance a bit but I can still manage somehow. However, releasing a new flagship right after 2021 update makes you feel like your purchased product is now obsoleted after 2-3 months even if you buy it right after release. This is failing business execution and I hope he can redeem his clients somehow with special upgrade kit.

Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[tumpux]

You must be new to agd..

They will release whatever improvement they have whenever they feel like it. The Audio Research release schedule doesn’t apply here.

 

[sajunky]

I think you completely missed goals, thinking that everything is cost saving, all points are without merits, except one, still subject to verification.

#1. Cost saving, true, but from my point of view it was complete waste of resources to power a portion of a digital logic circuit which had nothing to do with sound quality from the high quality analogue grade power supply. It was a rational decision to use a different type of regulation that is able to decrease spikes which is a plague in digital circuits. It is why a comparison to a battery is used, it means that output impedance is low comparing to any Class A implementation. Remember, Kingwa is a designer, it shows in many places, that there is a problem with translating design goals to the general public. Only engineers are able to pickup what he said between lines.

#2. This optional, don't like it, don't use.

#3. It is actually a good idea. A reason against your proposal is that when two devices are plugged to these ports, ground loops start flowing between these devices. A separation of isolators is a welcome improvement.

#6. What you say is completely different to the point raised in this place. It is about how data stream is transfered to the switches driving a ladder. When data is transfered serially, it affects power supply and ground lines, producing constant peaks (64 in total during one sample), all leaking to the ladder output. It is why in this design new sample values are transfered simultaneously to all switches, producing one (averaged) peak. It is not a new feature, it was already present in DA-8/DA-7 modules.

The most important improvement of MK2 version is missed there. A logic board (FPGA functions) are optimised, specifically to facilitate jitter-free transfer over I2S port. 2021 versions received such improvement on the USB port, now it is the same for I2S. If you don't use I2S, you will probably won't see any difference. I expect more optimisation is also made, it happens with any development process.

It's not about sonic performance to be disappointed about. mk2 is like design fix with cost reduction to appeal wider market. I'm sure I will prefer 2021 over mk2 design wise for.

"1. Using the latest designed discrete servo stabilized power supply to feed the digital circuits, the noise level is comparable to that of a battery, but without the dry and thin sound characteristics of it, and thus the product's operating temperature is significantly lower than that of the previous model. The clock circuit and the analog circuit are still powered by a pure class-A regulated power supply for the best sound results"

Replacing pure class A circuit on digital for low noise and heat servo? I don't mind heat as I open air conditioning in listening room so I'd rather have pure class A on whole digital circuit not just clock circuit.

"2. By listening to a turntable and studying its sound for a long time, we have successfully integrated the analog vinyl sound characteristics into this product, this being allowed optionally through the front panel. (New feature)"

Both TDA and phono simulation are just simulation. I prefer using better server and deliver good real sound performance that done right without simulation or any other layer of DSP to degrade transparency.

"3. Both the USB and HDMI inputs are equipped with isolators, and two sets of linear power supplies to separately supply power to the USB and HDMI modules before the isolators to prevent interference from signal sources."

Sounds like a good idea but I'd rather have "Both USB / HDMI have built in separate isolator and pure class A isolate power supply." in 2021, especially USB one since it's the best interface that converts USB to i2S before feeding FGPA directly.

"6. The FPGA operates using the parallel data processing mode.
The IIS signal is serial data transmission. Each data bit requires one clock cycle. One frame of left and right channel data requires 64 clock cycles, so stability over a 64 clock cycles is needed.
The parallel mode only needs one clock to transmit and process the 32-bit data of the left and right channels, which greatly improves the processing speed and is less affected by the stability of the clock."

Using parallel processing feels like you trade single ended tube design that provides best tube sound to push pull design for more power. I'm sure this one is done due to customers using budget clock to worsen clock reliability and Kingwa had to do this to keep it stable. But I never have issue with internal clock or my own 10MHz clock design that I spent $4k budget building which I could have bought Mutec 10MHz clock instead.

So, I'm not dissatisfied with this $4k budget DAC's performance at all except it still retain Kingwa's signature of sharp and precise performance a bit but I can still manage somehow. However, releasing a new flagship right after 2021 update makes you feel like your purchased product is now obsoleted after 2-3 months even if you buy it right after release. This is failing business execution and I hope he can redeem his clients somehow with special upgrade kit.

Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[FredA]

Btw thanks @FredA again for continuously recommending new gear / upgrades for us to enjoy

You are welcome, Jack. Not merit on my side, with the Nazis having taken over here, i have nothing better to do than listening to music non stop and perfecting my setup.

I would say the objective effect of the Eva is about 1%, the subjective is more like 30%. And my unit has even improved further after about 6-7 weeks. Perhaps the effect is even greater with the mkii as the noise floor is lower within the digital circuits.

As for those who got the 2021 and are disappointed, you still got a dac that performs like many times its pricetag. And if not planning on investing some serious money on an external clock, i don't see why the mkii would be worth the upgrade.

Nobody but Kingwa could say. But Kingwa does not have top notch cables, which you need to hear the upgrade to its full extent. It's not just the dac. My setup is worth over 20k. I have 4k worth of cables. Those cables are needed to exploit the dac and clock fully. And they are carefully matched.

A digital source is the toughest to get right. I applaud Kingwa for making affordable r2r dacs. Without him and his chinese competitors, we would be forced to go delta sigma. For those listening to much instrumental stuff, things would not be the same without r2r.

There are always two ways to see things, the optimistic one and the pessimistic one.

Before upgrading the dac, get a dedicated ac line or two. You will be amazed by what this cheap upgrade will bring. It is something people i know did and that i haven't done yet. Probably my next move. Connecting the power amp to its own separate line and the rest to a second line would be quite optimal. I have been told by Dubravko of Nimak cables that the power amp causes much noise on the ac line because of current jumping from strands to strands.

 

[sajunky]

I have been told by Dubravko of Nimak cables that the power amp causes much noise on the ac line because of current jumping from strands to strands.

Oh, no, please...

Should we discuss audiophile fuses too.

 

[FredA]

Oh, no, please...

Should we discuss audiophile fuses too.

Dedicated ac lines do make a difference. Audiophile fuses, a much smaller one. But still.

Power cables help. Quite a bit.

This is old news really.

Power cables need proper matching, generally speaking. But getting only a bigger cable will definitly help in most cases. Get a 14awg (printer power cable) for you r2r 11 if you are still with the 18awg it comes with. Thank me after.

 

[WindowsX]

I think you completely missed goals, thinking that everything is cost saving, all points are without merits, except one, still subject to verification.

#1. Cost saving, true, but from my point of view it was complete waste of resources to power a portion of a digital logic circuit which had nothing to do with sound quality from the high quality analogue grade power supply. It was a rational decision to use a different type of regulation that is able to decrease spikes which is a plague in digital circuits. It is why a comparison to a battery is used, it means that output impedance is low comparing to any Class A implementation. Remember, Kingwa is a designer, it shows in many places, that there is a problem with translating design goals to the general public. Only engineers are able to pickup what he said between lines.

#2. This optional, don't like it, don't use.

#3. It is actually a good idea. A reason against your proposal is that when two devices are plugged to these ports, ground loops start flowing between these devices. A separation of isolators is a welcome improvement.

#6. What you say is completely different to the point raised in this place. It is about how data stream is transfered to the switches driving a ladder. When data is transfered serially, it affects power supply and ground lines, producing constant peaks (64 in total during one sample), all leaking to the ladder output. It is why in this design new sample values are transfered simultaneously to all switches, producing one (averaged) peak. It is not a new feature, it was already present in DA-8/DA-7 modules.

The most important improvement of MK2 version is missed there. A logic board (FPGA functions) are optimised, specifically to facilitate jitter-free transfer over I2S port. 2021 versions received such improvement on the USB port, now it is the same for I2S. If you don't use I2S, you will probably won't see any difference. I expect more optimisation is also made, it happens with any development process.

#1 If it's a complete waste of resources, Kingwa wouldn't have implemented it in the first place. He did a few tests and decided to implement that despite the cost and risks because it's so god damn better with pure class A power supply regulation on whole digital circuit. But problem arises and solution must be made for them so it's understandable to keep only clock circuit with pure class a regulation for lower temperature. And goes by your logic, clock should be the most obvious place to switch to low noise servo to decrease spike yet it was kept there. That's how much he wanted to use pure class a design on digital implementation.

#2 true. It's optional

#3 While I agree that separated isolation is good, you seem to miss the point that it's no longer "pure class A isolated power supply" that feeds USB and i2S. I would rather have pure class A isolated power supply design especially on Kingwa's DAC with sharp and precise sound signature.

#6 The point is parallel processing decreases integrity that serial processing has. You will have more linearity and transparency with serial processing. And I never have issue with internal clock and high precision clock I use with his DAC. He needs to adapt parallel processing to deal with lower precision clock and that implementation along with his new design to compromise with lower accuracy clock will worsen performance that requires high precision clock.

Well, mk2 design will get more improvements on i2S which is nice and as I prefer USB from high quality source like highend server + JCAT USB XE to DAC, I'd love to keep using USB more than i2s approach which is good for some products no doubt but not for my case.

The point I made here is mk2 makes 2021 that I prefer more looks like and out-dated product despite being out for like 3-4 months ago. I guess this is AGD thing to get used to as tumpux said lol.

 

[FredA]

About #6, as far as i know, the 2021 is shipped with a fw using parallel processing. It was introduced last year on the 2020.