[Chopin75]

USB Vs I2S, we could debate a long time...
I did different tests in the past (USB Amanéro) Vs I2S... I2S has always been a winner (It's the native language of DACs, no conversion done end-to-end).
But I never tested SOtM so maybe it's different...

The best I2S combo I know (with computer) costs 1700 €:
Pink Faun I2S bridge + Clock OCXO upgrade + External linear Power supply + Pink Faun IL-2 I2S (HDMI - HDMI) interlink

The best USB combo I know costs 2400 €:
SOtM SMS-200 Ultra + SOtM SPS-500 + Good USB cable (300€) + Singxer F1 USB (Replace Amanero on R2R 7)

Which one is the best ? I don't know. But with the first (I2S) combo, you achieve very high performances.

I2S should be best, in theory and I suppose if implemented properly with transformers (like the Singxir Su-1), but I have never used I2S. USB is crap for audio in general, so I heard. It also does not do native DSD but DoP though apparently that does not affect sound. I am surprised why even expensive DAC do not have I2S. It seems like there is a conspiracy to avoid the best sound by not allowing I2S input so it never sounds at its best and so one will need to buy more USB conditioners etc. Forget the USB may be best approach. If I don't want DSD, this may be best solution:

Schiit: http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr


Ideally a music streamer/player with dedicated I2S feeding into DAC directly is best, and most simple. I have not found an affordable one. Mano ultra seems promising but can only do stereo and limits the DSD to 64 I think (why??!!). For me the whole painful effort of playing downloaded music (instead of CD/SACD) is to get super Hi-RES! Really, I would not bother to get DSD64 for computer audio which is same as SACD, So DSD256 or DXD etc.

For the SU-1, there has been comments that the AC power can dirty the pathway again so some people recommend converting it to pure DC using LPS but that seems really complicated and needs some DIY mod.

Or one can try the modified SU-1 that cleans up the AC pwr:


https://kitsunehifi.com/product/kte...6-dop-free-shipping-with-coupon-code-singxer/


https://www.magnahifi.com/en/websho...ion-su-1-digital-xmos-usb-audio-bridge-dsd512

I don't know which one would be better. But perhaps one can do without the Regen before it and still sound good enough.

 

[T Bone]

Ideally a music streamer/player with dedicated I2S feeding into DAC directly is best, and most simple. I have not found an affordable one. Mano ultra seems promising but can only do stereo and limits the DSD to 64 I think (why??!!). For me the whole painful effort of playing downloaded music (instead of CD/SACD) is to get super Hi-RES! Really, I would not bother to get DSD64 for computer audio which is same as SACD, So DSD256 or DXD etc.

I have been looking into the Mano Ultra as well. I believe you've mischaracterized it's DSD performance and hi-res capabilities.
Here's the info straight from the Magna HiFi website:

FILE TYPES

• Supported File Types: AAC, AIF, ALAC, DIF, DSF, FLAC, MP3, OGG, WAV, WV and WMA
• DSD, DoP (DSD over PCM) and , DSD to PCM 64x, 128x, 256x

SAMPLE RATES

• HDMI I2S LVDS = 44.1 Khz - 384 Khz | 16-32 bit
• SPDIF OUT = 44.1 Khz - 192 Khz | 16-24 bit

So it looks like it will handle just about any hi-res stream PCM or DSD that you want to throw at it.
You can double-check for yourself here: LINK

 

[T Bone]

For the SU-1, there has been comments that the AC power can dirty the pathway again so some people recommend converting it to pure DC using LPS but that seems really complicated and needs some DIY mod.

I own the Singxer SU-1 and it's performance out of the box was quite good. You can modify it to accept an external power supply such as the Uptone LPS-1. ...which is exactly what I did.
The modification was quite simple. Take a few screws out, unplug the internal power supply, snap in the new external connector and connect it to the board. It took a whopping 10 minutes.

I wouldn't say that the Singxer SU-1 "needs" a linear power supply upgrade, I was happy quite happy with its stock performance.
That being said, it is possible to bump the performance up a notch with a simple mod if you don't mind the extra cost and enjoy tinkering.

 

[mauriciolguin]

I´m about to get the NFB 28.38 from Audio GD with USB isolator. I´m very new on the subject.

I would like to know if you recommend getting HDMI replacement or if it´s better to save money and get the RJ45 I2S input. For the moment I will be using the USB connection, but I would like to know if the HDMI would be useful in the future.

Thank you for your help

 

[Chopin75]

Has anyone assessed thoroughly how DSD sounds like for the R2R ? I probably missed some of these comments from the past.Right now I am still debating to choose between Holo, Metrum Pavane and audio-Gd. If DSD is really awesome, then it is worth getting R2R 7, otherwise I would probably go for Metrum Pavane and wait for a better DSD. Maybe Audio-Gd will make a multi-ch. DSD DAC one day!

 

[Chopin75]

Only, i am using the accurate fw, while having audirvana doing all the OS. Can't stand the on dac upsamping with the accurate fw.

All in all, my usb chain costs around 800 usd, i admit. But i could perhaps get better results still with a just modded su-1, using nothing else. it would then cost me 500 usd. Or a Schiit Eitr with digital cable (380usd). In my view, the only real problem with the r2r 7 is the accurate fw should sound a little less aggressive, because the dynamics this fw brings to the mix are welcome. I find it normal to have to isolate the pc somehow cause it is a major source of noise. Whatever way you find. With the intona, or just the Eitr with a proper coax cable, a potential groud loop is eliminated. With the new isolator found on the newer r2r 7, perhaps you get close to what i get now, but i doubt it. I am sure it helps however.

My point is the intona can improve most setups, meaning the vast majority of dacs, whatever they cost. As for the f-1 and Schiit Wyrd, they do not make such significant difference last time i checked. I would have to take them out of the equation and see what i get from the Amanero. I would be down to around 450 usd including the usb cable. To feed a 2500usd dac, it is very reasonnable. I don't find any flaw with the sound i get and for me, this is worth the extra money. The sound has even got organic, which for me is a huge plus and what sets the r2r 7 apart.

Hi Freda, so do you find the Intona getting great results using your MAC? I believe you are dong Audirvana on Mac? I am thinking of doing same thing as I have a MacAir and will likely get a MacBook Pro. Did you also get the Singzir -Su in the end to feed to R2R-7? Did that make substantial improvement than via INtona to DAC ? Right now I am thinking of Schiit Eitr to got my DAC that does not yet have I2S though a SU-1 may be more useful in future if I get R2R7 or other DAC with I2S

 

[aljordan]

Hi,

I am considering an R2R 7 as an upgrade of my Reference 7 that I bought back in 2010. I have the version 5 of the DSP-1 on the Reference 7. I have some questions for those of you who have the R2R 7.

1) One thing I like about the Reference 7 is the low end weight in the bass. From the descriptions I've read about the R2R 7, it seems that it may have a more linear frequency response. For those who have upgraded, do you still get the feeling of good low-end weight from the R2R 7?

2) I've noticed that a couple of people on this thread have gone through a lot of tweaking and fiddling to get the best performance possible out of their R2R 7. Have you done this because you are annoyed by something in the frequency response of the R2R 7, or just because you like to tweak and optimize? I guess I am asking if you are constantly tweaking because something in the response becomes annoying after listening for a while.

3) I currently feed my reference 7 via it's SPDIF input, from either a Berkeley Alpha USB converter, or a Prism Sound Orpheus interface. In at least one system configuration that I have in mind, I will have to continue feeding from the Prism Orpheus SPDIF output. Are people happy feeding their R2R 7 via SPDIF, or is it only the USB and I2S interfaces that are giving good results? I realize that the SPDIF input is limited to 192 kHz, but I am wondering if anyone has found what can be considered excellent performance via the SPDIF input?

Thank you in advance for any info you may be able to provide.
Alan

 

[JaMo]

Hi Alan,

I will answer for myself and what's driving me. My R2R-7 has now about 2.5 months 24/7 music playing on it. As You surely have read, it is needed to have many hours... Since a week ago I have it set to 8 x OS on smooth fw. I use ESL-speakers with dipole sw's.

1. The ref was/is a high weight bassy dac. The R2R-7 is not. It is just very well defined and ...I want to say "true". Full control all down to the lowest frequences.
2. The R2R-7 give You a lot of settings to test out. It is a strength. No doubt. During the first period of burn in I was searching for a (my) preferred setting. The sound changes very slowly during burn in but it gets better all the time. For me, to match the R2R-7 for my system I have been running and passed a few settings and right now 8x OS sounds really good. I think/know it will be stable later on (approx 6 months, a few of us guess). It is a high end dac. It just takes its time to blossom and stabilize

3. Cannot answer. I use Amanero USB and I2S.

I suggest You to try to get a listen to the R2R-7. Or buy it but keep You ref-7 for a while and run them side by side. The challenge is to have patience for the very long burn in time.

/Jan

 

[FredA]

Hi Freda, so do you find the Intona getting great results using your MAC? I believe you are dong Audirvana on Mac? I am thinking of doing same thing as I have a MacAir and will likely get a MacBook Pro. Did you also get the Singzir -Su in the end to feed to R2R-7? Did that make substantial improvement than via INtona to DAC ? Right now I am thinking of Schiit Eitr to got my DAC that does not yet have I2S though a SU-1 may be more useful in future if I get R2R7 or other DAC with I2S

Hi.

Yes i use audirvana on mac. Mac mini-> intona -> schiit wyrd -> singxer f-1 -> rj45 i2s -> r2r 7

There might be better usb isolator out there now for less money, not sure.

When i acquired the intona (regular), i had the m-7. The intona gave a clear improvement to my setup. Micro-information and soundstaging got clearly better.

The singxer f-1 driven by the schiit wyrd is excellent and made also a clear difference with the m7. The f-1 is clearly better in my opinion with the i2s out. It is better balanced, especilly with bass, which is not exagerated as with the coax out.

However, i haven't tried many combination with the r2r 7. I just briefly tried the amanero combined with the rest of he usb chain and found it close to the f-1, but things could have changed with additional break-in. The r2r 7 evolves for well over a 1000 hours.

Not sure about the singzer - su. i suppose you mean the Singxer su-1. I see no reason buy the regular version ar least. The combination i use is excellent so i am not concerned with upgrading it. I might use a streamer at some point to get rid of the pc, assuming the r2r 7 firmware will be improved at some point. For now, i need to upsample using audirvana. It is either this or i would use the smooth firmware with the default settings. But i prefer the hard way i.e. the accurate fw with sw upsampling.

 

[FredA]

Hi,

I am considering an R2R 7 as an upgrade of my Reference 7 that I bought back in 2010. I have the version 5 of the DSP-1 on the Reference 7. I have some questions for those of you who have the R2R 7.

1) One thing I like about the Reference 7 is the low end weight in the bass. From the descriptions I've read about the R2R 7, it seems that it may have a more linear frequency response. For those who have upgraded, do you still get the feeling of good low-end weight from the R2R 7?

2) I've noticed that a couple of people on this thread have gone through a lot of tweaking and fiddling to get the best performance possible out of their R2R 7. Have you done this because you are annoyed by something in the frequency response of the R2R 7, or just because you like to tweak and optimize? I guess I am asking if you are constantly tweaking because something in the response becomes annoying after listening for a while.

3) I currently feed my reference 7 via it's SPDIF input, from either a Berkeley Alpha USB converter, or a Prism Sound Orpheus interface. In at least one system configuration that I have in mind, I will have to continue feeding from the Prism Orpheus SPDIF output. Are people happy feeding their R2R 7 via SPDIF, or is it only the USB and I2S interfaces that are giving good results? I realize that the SPDIF input is limited to 192 kHz, but I am wondering if anyone has found what can be considered excellent performance via the SPDIF input?

Thank you in advance for any info you may be able to provide.
Alan

I only use i2s on mine for serious listening. For question 2, as JaMo mentioned, the sound changes constantly during break-in. And in additon, once the the r2r 7 stabilizes, i realized that it had more potential with the accurate fw but required some tweaks to make the sound non fatiguing and dynamic at the same time. For question 1, i have the same answer as JaMo. But it is possible to increase the bass quantity changing some signal/power cable to make it close to that of the m-7, which was a bit exagerated and needed to by reduced in my setup.

 

[FredA]

I´m about to get the NFB 28.38 from Audio GD with USB isolator. I´m very new on the subject.

I would like to know if you recommend getting HDMI replacement or if it´s better to save money and get the RJ45 I2S input. For the moment I will be using the USB connection, but I would like to know if the HDMI would be useful in the future.

Thank you for your help

Yes, hdmi could be useful to connect a high-quality i2s source. It is prefered in most cases to rj45. The ideal is to have both, but in general, hdmi is preferable to rj45. Only, when using a very short rj45 cable, rj45 can be better.

 

[Currawong]

@FredA I switched back to the accurate firmware. It definitely works better now with my optimised USB set-up. I think it ends up becoming extremely sensitive to any noise/distortion in the transport. It's worth noting here mine doesn't have the USB isolation.

@aljordan I think you'll be happy. If anything the accuracy of the bass is better and less "wooly" than the PCM1704-based DACs.

 

[Asgo]

Hi,

After having sold my Terminator DAC, I placed an order for the R2R-7 unit. It should arrive here in 2 weeks.
How to know wich firmware is installed (accurate Vs smooth) ?
I would like to thank my seller here in Europe: Magna-Hifi for his advice, availability and his professionalism !
Jos is always listening and answering questions ... without inciting the purchase...
Same for Pink Faun (Jord)...

I sent back my Pink Faun I2S bridge to Pink Faun for modifications (OCXO clock + DC-in brakets both for I2S bridge and OCXO module, will be powered with external linear PSU (12V and 5V)).

 

[FredA]

@FredA I switched back to the accurate firmware. It definitely works better now with my optimised USB set-up. I think it ends up becoming extremely sensitive to any noise/distortion in the transport. It's worth noting here mine doesn't have the USB isolation.

@aljordan I think you'll be happy. If anything the accuracy of the bass is better and less "wooly" than the PCM1704-based DACs.

Yes, it seems that noise-induced jitter still has impact on sound, most especillay with the accurate fw. With this regard, the usb and i2s input are more sensitive. But the reward is you get to a new level of performance, especially with treble, when you do so. Looking forward to seeing an i2s transport with galvanic isolation, best clock tech available et best psus combined all together. For under 500$, that would be great.

 

[FredA]

Hi,

After having sold my Terminator DAC, I placed an order for the R2R-7 unit. It should arrive here in 2 weeks.
How to know wich firmware is installed (accurate Vs smooth) ?
I would like to thank my seller here in Europe: Magna-Hifi for his advice, availability and his professionalism !
Jos is always listening and answering questions ... without inciting the purchase...
Same for Pink Faun (Jord)...

I sent back my Pink Faun I2S bridge to Pink Faun for modifications (OCXO clock + DC-in brakets both for I2S bridge and OCXO module, will be powered with external linear PSU (12V and 5V)).

The simplest way is to ask Jos, but normally the r2r 7 ships with the smooth fw. For the first 800 to 1000 hours, i recommend you keep the smooth fw. Otherwise, you may find you dac harsh. The first 24 hours are to be ignored: it will probably sound pretty bad. And one last advice, never turn it off so that it is always ready to perform, temperature needing to be even inside.