[gk2013]

The Uptone Audio Ethernet Regen 10M Clock input is 75 ohm - https://uptoneaudio.com/products/etherregen [comments for 75ohm at bottom of URL page]
The Singxer SU6 10M BNC is 75 ohm output.
Mutec REF 10 Master Clock is 75 ohm.

Can you guys add some color as to the case for choosing to fix 50 ohm input on the Audio GD DDC? Sorry if not up to speed on this.
I attempted to source/pay for an Accusilicon 10M OCXO sample from their California office(?) and they never responded. This Chinese company has some outstanding noise plots. It'd be great if Kingwa could provide a master clock product to further round out the product line using this outstanding OCXO.

Mutec REF has 2x 50Ohm outputs
Singxer SU6 has a wclk / Mclk output, not a 10Mhz output and cannot be used.
I noticed Magna Hifi is offering an upgrade now: Audio-GD - R2R 10Mhz 50Ohm Master Clock Input upgrade (R7HE, R7)
They also mention some 10mhz clocks that are compatible

 

[517269]

Mutec REF has 2x 50Ohm outputs
Singxer SU6 has a wclk / Mclk output, not a 10Mhz output and cannot be used.
I noticed Magna Hifi is offering an upgrade now: Audio-GD - R2R 10Mhz 50Ohm Master Clock Input upgrade (R7HE, R7)
They also mention some 10mhz clocks that are compatible

Thanks for the data points. Can you educate me on what the MCLK/WCK are used for/would connect to? Thanks.

 

[gk2013]

Thanks for the data points. Can you educate me on what the MCLK/WCK are used for/would connect to? Thanks.

Its really complex indeed
MCLK/WCK outputs are often used with e.g. AES/EBU input to transport the generated clock from the source (SU6) to the DAC to avoid timing issues. This is a synchronous distributed clock (one clock source). If the DAC receiving the digital stream has a word clock that is running in sync with the word clock of the SU6 it ensures the digital audio stream is received correctly.

A 10Mhz master reference clock has a similar function, although its a reference clock to (all) devices in the chain with an internal clock. Assume you have a SOtM sms200 ULTRA and txUSBULTRA and R7 DAC. By distributing a 10 MHz clock signal to all 3, they are phase locked. This ensures not only a perfect frequency match between the devices, but also guarantees a constant phase relation amongst all signals.

In case you only have one device, e.g. R7 one could still consider the master reference clock. It should be a very good (a superior!) master clock to outperform the internal clocks (my understanding right now: the internal clocks are not being used while a 10Mhz master clock is injected in the R7, no PLL circuit has been implemented). e.g. the SOtM works differently, when connecting the 10Mhz master clock the internal clocks are still active but phase locked by the master clock (using PLL)

Long story short: MCLK/WCK is a different implementation (like 75 vs 50 ohm impedance). To improve current R7 internal clocking an exceptional good 10Mhz master clock should be used. Reviews of the SotM sCLK-OCX10 are promising as well as Cybershaft.

I agree with Magna's statement: Only care about this if you are willing to invest in a master clock. I personally like the fact the option exists and I really want to give it a try just to understand and experience the difference.

 

[517269]

Its really complex indeed
MCLK/WCK outputs are often used with e.g. AES/EBU input to transport the generated clock from the source (SU6) to the DAC to avoid timing issues. This is a synchronous distributed clock (one clock source). If the DAC receiving the digital stream has a word clock that is running in sync with the word clock of the SU6 it ensures the digital audio stream is received correctly.

A 10Mhz master reference clock has a similar function, although its a reference clock to (all) devices in the chain with an internal clock. Assume you have a SOtM sms200 ULTRA and txUSBULTRA and R7 DAC. By distributing a 10 MHz clock signal to all 3, they are phase locked. This ensures not only a perfect frequency match between the devices, but also guarantees a constant phase relation amongst all signals.

In case you only have one device, e.g. R7 one could still consider the master reference clock. It should be a very good (a superior!) master clock to outperform the internal clocks (my understanding right now: the internal clocks are not being used while a 10Mhz master clock is injected in the R7, no PLL circuit has been implemented). e.g. the SOtM works differently, when connecting the 10Mhz master clock the internal clocks are still active but phase locked by the master clock (using PLL)

Long story short: MCLK/WCK is a different implementation (like 75 vs 50 ohm impedance). To improve current R7 internal clocking an exceptional good 10Mhz master clock should be used. Reviews of the SotM sCLK-OCX10 are promising as well as Cybershaft.

I agree with Magna's statement: Only care about this if you are willing to invest in a master clock. I personally like the fact the option exists and I really want to give it a try just to understand and experience the difference.

 

[gk2013]

Nice, this is a word clock indeed, usually 64x sample rate. R7 needs a 10Mhz clock.

 

[517269]

I very much appreciate all the detail and your time gk2013!
When I received my R8HE I looked into modding the R8 with the Pulsar OCXO Clocks which are [were] the same package as the Accusilicons.
Kingwa [at first] was [understandably reluctant but] very generous [I wish I could meet him as I feel he is a very honerable man] to coach me in updating the regulator to accomadate the required increase in current for the OCXOs.
It turned out Pulsar Clocks closed their doors last December.
On my Auralic Vega DAC, I would rate the upgrade from Crystek 575 to the 100M Pulsar OCXO as a very modest 15% improvement in focus, refinement and soundstage expansion - even using Pulsar's ADM7150 low noise regulator.
A year later I wound up inserting a Bybee Gold Purifier in line to the Vin to the Pulsar and I got a 15% improvement in focus and soundstage expansion on the Vega Dac.
Then I inserted another Bybee in line with the clock ground and the performance doubled.

So, a month after having the R8HE I tried a Gold Bybee in line with clock ground first and I heard a 15% improvement. Then inserted one to each clock's Vin and overall, I would say there is a 25-30% improvement in focus, soundstage width and holography.
I'm now looking into trying this mod on the SU6. I was hoping that this would also lower the noise on what I thought was the 10M Reference output that I could feed to an Uptone Ethernet Regen for when I subscribe to a streaming service.

Female soprano singers, hall reverb effects on dense choir passages and electronic reverb still highlight the flaws in my system but with the R8HE this is the first time I have ever been able to experience listening from the heart and not analyze from the head. There is plenty of natural detail to be immersed in without the presentation being spotlit.
There were plenty of times over the years where I wanted to just throw the entire system out the window like Keith Moon cantankerously throwing a television set out of the top floor window of a Holiday Inn and into the swimming pool....

If anyone is ever near central Connecticut please feel free to message me if you'd like to have a listen or even A/B with your own Audio GD Dac.


Source - Antipodes CX/EX > Singxer SU6 >R8HE >Krell Evo II Preamps > Krell Evo I Amps > Dunlavy SC VI w/Duelund CAST crossover parts
System is powered off dedicated 240V feeds and is fully balanced with pin 1 gnd open at receive ends of interconnects.

Rich M

 

[DACLadder]

Back after two days of no electrical power! Kingwa sent me newer firmware that seems to fix imaging issues with PCM OS 8x that was noticed on the original 'P' firmware.. Also DSD seems to play OK with the Singxer F1 on IN6. DSD with the U16 is noisy but worked OK with Asy3. There is a lot less switching noise when changing PCM/DSD and on PCM sampling rate changes. So that is progress.

I asked Kingwa's permission to release the newer firmware so awaiting to announce. There are two versions - Accurate and Smooth. And I believe these firmwares support IN4 Optical and have no external 10M clock input. And these newer firmware files are trial versions which may have bugs. Use at your own risk and enjoyment! So will announce 'P_2' and 'PS_2' when we get the green light.

 

[517269]

Back after two days of no electrical power! Kingwa sent me newer firmware that seems to fix imaging issues with PCM OS 8x that was noticed on the original 'P' firmware.. Also DSD seems to play OK with the Singxer F1 on IN6. DSD with the U16 is noisy but worked OK with Asy3. There is a lot less switching noise when changing PCM/DSD and on PCM sampling rate changes. So that is progress.

I asked Kingwa's permission to release the newer firmware so awaiting to announce. There are two versions - Accurate and Smooth. And I believe these firmwares support IN4 Optical and have no external 10M clock input. And these newer firmware files are trial versions which may have bugs. Use at your own risk and enjoyment! So will announce 'P_2' and 'PS_2' when we get the green light.

Thanks for your work DACLadder Are you part of the grid shutdown in California?
I recall watching a motorcycle stuntman named Super Joe Einhorn approach the ramp at 90mph [don't recall how many cars he was jumping] and my power went out at the moment he got to the end of the approach ramp....!$%*@!

 

[DACLadder]

@AudioBang Thanks... Yes, I'm in Sonoma county (California). We were one of the first to go black and last to recover power last night about 10pm. Had to throw out all things in my fridge and freezer but my gas stove worked when lit by a match.. The wind never got above 15mph in our area. Heads are going to roll over this fiasco. But it was a great forced trial in case of earthquake and I need to be better prepared. %@#*!

 

[517269]

I always enjoyed a crisp cold glass of Gloria Ferrar Rose Brut overlooking their vinyard.
Heaven forbid a malicious attack on our grid right after downloading a new FW load

 

[Chopin75]

@AudioBang Thanks... Yes, I'm in Sonoma county (California). We were one of the first to go black and last to recover power last night about 10pm. Had to throw out all things in my fridge and freezer but my gas stove worked when lit by a match.. The wind never got above 15mph in our area. Heads are going to roll over this fiasco. But it was a great forced trial in case of earthquake and I need to be better prepared. %@#*!

@AudioBang Thanks... Yes, I'm in Sonoma county (California). We were one of the first to go black and last to recover power last night about 10pm. Had to throw out all things in my fridge and freezer but my gas stove worked when lit by a match.. The wind never got above 15mph in our area. Heads are going to roll over this fiasco. But it was a great forced trial in case of earthquake and I need to be better prepared. %@#*!

You can get yourself a natural gas generator (and perhaps backup solar power too). Is this power outage anything to do with this wild fire going on in CA ??

 

[Chopin75]

So this is the Magna upgrade:
https://www.magnahifi.com/en/websho...0mhz-50ohm-master-clock-input-upgrade-r7he-r7

I just got my R7 back so no way I have to send back again, do you think it can be a DIY job?

 

[JaMo]

OT, sorry
I have have to admit I have a diesel generator that allow me to listen to my music even if the power grid is down. In fact the whole household runs on it. It's designed to run for longer periods if needed (months).
/Jan

 

[Chopin75]

OT, sorry
I have have to admit I have a diesel generator that allow me to listen to my music even if the power grid is down. In fact the whole household runs on it. It's designed to run for longer periods if needed (months).
/Jan

Would running on diesel instead of the grid give you better SQ from your system?

 

[DACLadder]

@Chopin75 If I owed my place I would consider natural gas generator. Had solar power on my old house that I owned previously. But solar does not work on straight connection to electrical grid (grid tie) on power failure. You have to have power coming in for it to work. The electrical company does not want to work on downed electrical lines energized by your solar array!. Battery backup would be an option. I think an RV type gasoline generator to keep the refrigerator going, charge phones, and keep some lights on may be more practical and economical.

Input 3 is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor on the digital board. Yes a semi-skilled person can easily remove the resistor and tack in a new 50 ohm resistor without removing the board.. With short cables a 75 ohm termination may work satisfactory with 50 ohm source and good enough to give it a try. Shortest of cable though to minimize cable reflection artifacts. I will give that a try first when the R7 2020 firmware is available.

@AudioBang Gloria Ferrer brut is my all-time favorite sparking wine!! I prefer it over straight white wine any day. Winery is about 20 miles south of my location. Good stuff and available at Costco near me (best price).