[Chopin75]

It is all marketing my friend. Even if DOP, the DSD is still Native. The different is that in the world of Multibit DAC we have to use DOP to process DSD. It becomes that Native DSD is done by and at the DAC Input or done by and at the sources (DOP)

The only real and true Native DSD is to route the DSD directly toward a Single but (1bit DAC). The only DAC that does this is T+A DAC8, as it has customized 1 bit DAC

Ok, so is there real advantage of using I2S/HDMI input then? Apart from reducing jitter due to maybe using a shorter USB cable, assuming HDMI/I2S has less jitter across the distance. But if the USB cable is so short that u send DoP or whatever u call to Amenero board via USB, then it is about the same, as it seems the so called native DSD requires even more work to decode.

 

[Chopin75]

So far I apart from the annoying noise from some DSD files, DSD256 is sounding great! I am not sure how it can be worse than LKS-004 or the portable DX200, unless u really like SD sound. I think the DSD in R2R7 is a bit more relaxed and natural, but then my previous SD DAC is using the older 9018 chip. Might total DAC be really good then?

 

[Whitigir]

So far I apart from the annoying noise from some DSD files, DSD256 is sounding great! I am not sure how it can be worse than LKS-004 or the portable DX200, unless u really like SD sound. I think the DSD in R2R7 is a bit more relaxed and natural, but then my previous SD DAC is using the older 9018 chip. Might total DAC be really good then?

You just need to hear DSD512 and or even 256 out of the newest generation S/D to see what I mean.

As I said, I enjoy both S/D and R2R. The R2R7 is unbeatable in PCM performances, but it DSD capability is....sad

The LKS004 is S/D and honestly, it is damn good. But the most I enjoy from it is DSD512, and as my curious ears brought me on the journey, I learned that DAC chips are processing these DOP passed down to it by the DDC, and Xmos sounds better than Amanero. Not sure if there are other DDC interface that can do DSD512.

This is why I learned that the Cyclone in the R7 is responsible for all the DSD processing, but because it is an FPGA, it doesn’t know what it need to do, unless Kingwa can program it to. Honestly, so far, the R2R7 is best over I2S, and using PCM, and that is my observation

 

[DACLadder]

Yes, but FPGA such as Cyclone on the R7 board is fully capable of DSD512 or even 1024. The thing is, how would it handle these signals ? One thing for sure is that DSD Input is embarrassing on R2R7 in comparison to LKS-004 or even a DX200.

Have you asked Kingwa? The FPGA code may not know what to do with DSD512. What works at 352khz may blow up at DSD512 rate for many reasons if never tested.

 

[Whitigir]

Have you asked Kingwa? The FPGA code may not know what to do with DSD512. What works at 352khz may blow up at DSD512 rate for many reasons if never tested.

The I2S input on r2r7 can take in DSD512 according to it specifications, this means the R7 board is fully capable of DSD512 and or even more (assumed base on the Cyclone processing prowess)

Did anyone ever bother to look up the Cyclone FPGA specifications ? It is crazIly fast. I know it is Cyclone IV GX which can be anywhere 4Mbs or 6Mbs, not sure, but that is crazy. There is Cyclone 10 now, just released last year (1.4Gbps). I imagine the next irritation of R7 would utilize that LOL

 

[Chopin75]

You just need to hear DSD512 and or even 256 out of the newest generation S/D to see what I mean.

As I said, I enjoy both S/D and R2R. The R2R7 is unbeatable in PCM performances, but it DSD capability is....sad

The LKS004 is S/D and honestly, it is damn good. But the most I enjoy from it is DSD512, and as my curious ears brought me on the journey, I learned that DAC chips are processing these DOP passed down to it by the DDC, and Xmos sounds better than Amanero. Not sure if there are other DDC interface that can do DSD512.

This is why I learned that the Cyclone in the R7 is responsible for all the DSD processing, but because it is an FPGA, it doesn’t know what it need to do, unless Kingwa can program it to. Honestly, so far, the R2R7 is best over I2S, and using PCM, and that is my observation

The matrix spdif also can do 512 but similar to Singxer using XMOS. I may get th4 DX200 or similar to try out DSD then. The theory is supposedly Multibit SD converts DSD to 4-5 bit before decoding so it may suck that way, but then maybe the 9028 or 9038 Sabre is better now.

 

[Whitigir]

Yeah, it still use xmosu208, and I want XmosU216 that can do dsd1024

 

[FredA]

Dsd playback can probably be improved with a new fw.

 

[Whitigir]

Dsd playback can probably be improved with a new fw.

And it should! As I am looking forward to it!

 

[FredA]

Heads up, the r2r 1 was replaced by the r-1. Same thing it seems but with fpga config on the front panel.

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R1/R1CH.htm

I guess there will be an r-7 at some point.

 

[Chopin75]

You just need to hear DSD512 and or even 256 out of the newest generation S/D to see what I mean.

As I said, I enjoy both S/D and R2R. The R2R7 is unbeatable in PCM performances, but it DSD capability is....sad

The LKS004 is S/D and honestly, it is damn good. But the most I enjoy from it is DSD512, and as my curious ears brought me on the journey, I learned that DAC chips are processing these DOP passed down to it by the DDC, and Xmos sounds better than Amanero. Not sure if there are other DDC interface that can do DSD512.

This is why I learned that the Cyclone in the R7 is responsible for all the DSD processing, but because it is an FPGA, it doesn’t know what it need to do, unless Kingwa can program it to. Honestly, so far, the R2R7 is best over I2S, and using PCM, and that is my observation

The matrix spdif also can do 512 but similar to Singxer using XMOS. I may get th4 DX200 or similar to try out DSD then. The theory is that

Heads up, the r2r 1 was replaced by the r-1. Same thing it seems but with fpga config on the front panel.

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R1/R1CH.htm

I guess there will be an r-7 at some point.

It states 4 types of NOS ot choose in Chinese, but U thought there are only 3 NOS?

 

[FredA]

The matrix spdif also can do 512 but similar to Singxer using XMOS. I may get th4 DX200 or similar to try out DSD then. The theory is that

It states 4 types of NOS ot choose in Chinese, but U thought there are only 3 NOS?

In os mode, you get a 4th nos by not installing any os jumper. Must be this.

 

[Whitigir]

Ok, I am back into NOS. But I am now using HQPlayer and Pinkfaun with the extra long Linear Filters and no Dithering. Even the highest dithering degrade my sound performances that my trebles details lose it edges.

While I enjoy both DSD512 and R2R7 NOS or even 8X-OS. The 8X-OS on the R2R7 is never that over saturated in comparison to S/D upsample to DSD512, or even regular PCM into any S/D period.

So, what about NOS ? And a good Pinkfaun I2S ? Well, Natural, and realistic. Not like it loses any dynamic or slam, it slightly does, but not to the point I would call oooohhh this is losing Dynamic. But in contrast, it gains so much of that naturalness, the music flows, and the realism of it. Whether I do upsampling by HQPlayer or just go NOS.

 

[DACLadder]

I asked Kingwa about DSD and he kindly responded. I am so wrong about DSD decoding and other assumptions. The list is long so where do I begin?

DSD native only is used. DoP is not needed nor any extra control wires. DSD is recognized by bits in the 32 bit (2 x 16bits) DSD native frame. DSD native stuff is decoded on the R2R analog/DAC boards and not the Singularity DSP FPGA. Here’s what Kingwa says... “The R2R DAC all built in DSD native decoders which is separate to the PCM decoders. It is working with 1bit but with 32bit resistors to finished the decode.”

The R7 DAC boards support DSD512 and best served by HDMI inputs. Kingwa mentioned the Amanero USB issue (noise in one channel playing DSD512) and no fault of the R7’s other circuits. Kingwa has the same Amanero issue with SD DACs that use ES9038 DSD chips.

When is the R8 DAC being released for the Europe and the Americas? Soon. Kingwa is certifying the DAC now (safety testing like UL and EMI radiation) so the unit can carry the “CE” mark on its label. Otherwise no import into Europe until complete.

 

[DACLadder]

Kingwa supplied a picture of the R2R 7 DAC module. The area outlined is the circuit that does DSD decoding.