[bimmer100]

I have a question for you guys. I get that the big selling point of this DAC is the difficult to acquire R2R DAC chip but is there a house sound to Audio GD DAC implementations that helps tame the D-S Sabre DACs? For example, if I went for the the NFB-7(2015) balanced DAC instead of the DAC-19 would there be a noticble and negative difference?

With that said how would the DAC-19 handle a 24/192 input over coaxial from a DAP if it's maximum is 24/96?

Everything is subjective. The dac19 sounds better in general and more than likely you would have more people agreeing to the euphonic sound of the r2r vs the shrill and crisp sound of the sabre. There isn't really a bad audio-gd choice. So I don't see any negative. If you can afford the dac19, then get it! You will be happy you did!


Can you configure your DAP to output 24/96? Or does it simply only output 24/192?

 

[x RELIC x]

Everything is subjective. The dac19 sounds better in general and more than likely you would have more people agreeing to the euphonic sound of the r2r vs the shrill and crisp sound of the sabre. There isn't really a bad audio-gd choice. So I don't see any negative. If you can afford the dac19, then get it! You will be happy you did!


Can you configure your DAP to output 24/96? Or does it simply only output 24/192?

Yes I can afford it, and I would really only want one because of all the talk about the timbre and natural audio reproduction from the unit. My curiosity is piqued. The DAP outputs bit perfect to what the source file is except DSD (which I don't really have more than a couple samples anyway). I have the HA-1 but, like others, may be tiring of the über Sabre detail from the DAC section.

My question is more about Audio GD implementation of the Sabre DAC. Does Kingwa strive for a similar sound to the R2R DAC in the DAC-19 or is the target more toward the typical Sabre detail and crispness. Is there an Audio GD 'house sound' target across their Sabre and PCM1704UK units?

 

[evillamer]

Yes I can afford it, and I would really only want one because of all the talk about the timbre and natural audio reproduction from the unit. My curiosity is piqued. The DAP outputs bit perfect to what the source file is except DSD (which I don't really have more than a couple samples anyway). I have the HA-1 but, like others, may be tiring of the über Sabre detail from the DAC section.

My question is more about Audio GD implementation of the Sabre DAC. Does Kingwa strive for a similar sound to the R2R DAC in the DAC-19 or is the target more toward the typical Sabre detail and crispness. Is there an Audio GD 'house sound' target across their Sabre and PCM1704UK units?

 
Since you mention you already have the HA-1. Then the more so you should try a R2R dac for a listening taste change, then you get to understand what the r2r praise/hype/fuss is all about. Think of it as Red wine(pcm1704uk) vs White Wine(sabre), no such thing as one being vastly superior over the other, just different methods of sound reproduction with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[bimmer100]

There is a house sound for audio-gd for their sabre dacs. But I wouldn't say they are trying to get it to sound like an r2r. That's just not possible. But they have tamed the sabre more than any other dac I've heard with the sabre. Especially compared to your HA-1. That's typical sabre. But the audio-gd implementation is smoother I would say, a little less harsh... But the dac19 is a whole lot better than the ds or sabre dacs. If you heard them back to back you would agree and choose the sound of the dac19 as being the best choice. Most likely anyhow. It's more musical, smooth, analog like. so don't expect to compare a sabre with the r2r sound that Kingwa has perfected

 

[x RELIC x]

There is a house sound for audio-gd for their sabre dacs. But I wouldn't say they are trying to get it to sound like an r2r. That's just not possible. But they have tamed the sabre more than any other dac I've heard with the sabre. Especially compared to your HA-1. That's typical sabre. But the audio-gd implementation is smoother I would say, a little less harsh... But the dac19 is a whole lot better than the ds or sabre dacs. If you heard them back to back you would agree and choose the sound of the dac19 as being the best choice. Most likely anyhow. It's more musical, smooth, analog like. so don't expect to compare a sabre with the r2r sound that Kingwa has perfected

The part I highlight in bold is what I was curious about. Thanks. Just curious about the overall implementations from Audio GD. Not expecting the D-S to sound like R2R here. Apologies for the poor wording.

I think I'll give the DAC-19 a whirl to pair with the Liquid Carbon. Always nice to see what's on the other side of the rails.

Now one last part, the sampling. I'm sure the DAC-19 would down sample higher sampling rates fed to it down to 96kHz, correct?

 

[Stillhart]

The part I highlight in bold is what I was curious about. Thanks. Just curious about the overall implementations from Audio GD. Not expecting the D-S to sound like R2R here. Apologies for the poor wording.

I think I'll give the DAC-19 a whirl to pair with the Liquid Carbon. Always nice to see what's on the other side of the rails.

Now one last part, the sampling. I'm sure the DAC-19 would down sample higher sampling rates fed to it down to 96kHz, correct?

Sorry for the late response but I agree that the AGD Sabre is very smooth. I've only heard one Sabre implementation that's smoother (Aurender FLOW).

Re the downsampling, I'm 99% sure the DAC 19 supports 24/192 over USB. If you're not using USB, you need to down sample before it gets there or no sound will come out.

 

[x RELIC x]

Sorry for the late response but I agree that the AGD Sabre is very smooth. I've only heard one Sabre implementation that's smoother (Aurender FLOW).

Re the downsampling, I'm 99% sure the DAC 19 supports 24/192 over USB. If you're not using USB, you need to down sample before it gets there or no sound will come out.

Oh, that's a problem. I don't listen to computer audio as when I'm working on my computer I'm taxing it pretty hard and music playback is not possible (creating visual effects), that's why I use my DAP. Well, there goes that idea. One of the reasons I was asking about their Sabre implementations. Thanks for the replies guys.

Edit: It may be worth it to just go Redbook on my entire collection.

 

[Stillhart]

Oh, that's a problem. I don't listen to computer audio as when I'm working on my computer I'm taxing it pretty hard and music playback is not possible (creating visual effects), that's why I use my DAP. Well, there goes that idea. One of the reasons I was asking about their Sabre implementations. Thanks for the replies guys.

Edit: It may be worth it to just go Redbook on my entire collection.

 
I just double checked and yeah, it maxes at 24/96k over coax and 24/192 over USB.
 
And you might read the sound science thread about "the 24 bit myth" if you are worried about "downgrading" to redbook.  Not trying to get into a debate with anyone here, just sayin.  

 

[x RELIC x]

I just double checked and yeah, it maxes at 24/96k over coax and 24/192 over USB.

And you might read the sound science thread about "the 24 bit myth" if you are worried about "downgrading" to redbook.  Not trying to get into a debate with anyone here, just sayin.  

Meh, don't care about re-sampling to redbook, just the time involved that I don't normally have. From what I've been reading it might be worth it though.

 

[aamefford]

It does work with cck and an iPhone. Not sure, but suspect it will work with usbotg? Prett sure that limits to 24/96 with the onkyo app. Noting just in case that helps anyone.

 

[nigeljames]

I have a question for you guys. I get that the big selling point of this DAC is the difficult to acquire R2R DAC chip but is there a house sound to Audio GD DAC implementations that helps tame the D-S Sabre DACs? For example, if I went for the the NFB-7(2015) balanced DAC instead of the DAC-19 would there be a noticble and negative difference?

With that said how would the DAC-19 handle a 24/192 input over coaxial from a DAP if it's maximum is 24/96?

 
Good Sabre32 implementations don't need 'taming' and Audio-gd don't do bright or harsh sounding gear. 
 
Unless you have a particular likeness for the R2R 1704 chip you will find that the NFB-7 would be an significant improvement over the DAC-19 which is exactly what it is meant to be given its design and price. 

 

[conquerator2]

As a former NFB-7 owner and an R2R convert, I'll go on a limp and say that the NFB-7 could not reproduce the naturalness and smoothness of a well done R2R. Could it sound hauntingly real and beautiful? Sure, it could! With about 10% of my collection 

. With the rest, it did not sound good.
I listen to almost everything, and in today's day of varying degree of mastering, brightness and compression, the R2R is the choice for me as the chip that plays well with everything.
TLR - If your collection is 'audiophile' well-mastered recordings, with lots of instrumental music, the NFB-7 will sound great... If you listen to lots of different genres of music, I do not recommend it. [The Gustard X12/20 could be worth a shot though! I owned the X12 and it was THE smoothest Sabre I've heard.]. The lower audio-gd Sabres [NFB-28/29] also sound smoother, but if you can't get an R2R, I'd recommend a different D-S chip than Sabre at least [see few exceptions above]
IMO. YMMV. 

 

 

[bimmer100]

As a former NFB-7 owner and an R2R convert, I'll go on a limp and say that the NFB-7 could not reproduce the naturalness and smoothness of a well done R2R. Could it sound hauntingly real and beautiful? Sure, it could! With about 10% of my collection  . With the rest, it did not sound good.
I listen to almost everything, and in today's day of varying degree of mastering, brightness and compression, the R2R is the choice for me as the chip that plays well with everything.
TLR - If your collection is 'audiophile' well-mastered recordings, with lots of instrumental music, the NFB-7 will sound great... If you listen to lots of different genres of music, I do not recommend it. [The Gustard X12/20 could be worth a shot though! I owned the X12 and it was THE smoothest Sabre I've heard.]. The lower audio-gd Sabres [NFB-28/29] also sound smoother, but if you can't get an R2R, I'd recommend a different D-S chip than Sabre at least [see few exceptions above]
IMO. YMMV.   

The gustard x20 looks interesting! But the nfb-28 is what I have and sounds fantastic! Last night I upgrade the USB to an amanero combo384 (kinda lengthy process actually)
I also added some of that 3M rmi/rf absorbtion material on many of the IC's and covered the transformer since it isn't entirely shielded with a solid wall between it and the dac portion. It's a 2015 and has a wall at least, just not all the way to the top of the cover... :/ the 2014 doesn't even have any wall!! I'm sure the 2014 would benefit from more shielding for sure! I'm very happy with the sabre sound from the nfb28 now! Extremely smooth and detail is amazing! Better than ever! But I still prefer the r2r euphonic sound from my master11.

 

[conquerator2]

The gustard x20 looks interesting! But the nfb-28 is what I have and sounds fantastic! Last night I upgrade the USB to an amanero combo384 (kinda lengthy process actually)
I also added some of that 3M rmi/rf absorbtion material on many of the IC's and covered the transformer since it isn't entirely shielded with a solid wall between it and the dac portion. It's a 2015 and has a wall at least, just not all the way to the top of the cover... :/ the 2014 doesn't even have any wall!! I'm sure the 2014 would benefit from more shielding for sure! I'm very happy with the sabre sound from the nfb28 now! Extremely smooth and detail is amazing! Better than ever! But I still prefer the r2r euphonic sound from my master11.

Agreed.
I'd be curios about any Anamero X VIA comparisons 

The Gustard X20 indeed seems promising. If I am to give D-S another chance it'd probably be it. The X12 impressed. The U12 is still serving USB duties. The DI2014 serves optical duties [because VIA just would not work properly for me

... Shame it can't be swapped for Anamero in this case 

]
The M11 though... Sounds like end game to me! 

 Unless Taurus & Yggy 

 

[evillamer]

   
The gustard x20 looks interesting! But the nfb-28 is what I have and sounds fantastic! Last night I upgrade the USB to an amanero combo384 (kinda lengthy process actually)
I also added some of that 3M rmi/rf absorbtion material on many of the IC's and covered the transformer since it isn't entirely shielded with a solid wall between it and the dac portion. It's a 2015 and has a wall at least, just not all the way to the top of the cover... :/ the 2014 doesn't even have any wall!! I'm sure the 2014 would benefit from more shielding for sure! I'm very happy with the sabre sound from the nfb28 now! Extremely smooth and detail is amazing! Better than ever! But I still prefer the r2r euphonic sound from my master11.

 
How much improvement is Amanero vs the VIA?
 
So the 3M EMI asborber worked for you too? Care to describe the difference in depth?
 
 
Special tweak, Do this at your own risk warning, YMMV:

Spoiler: Warning

You can also try to clean the metal connection tips of your interconnects, fuses, power plug with a ultrasonic cleaner to remove the top layer of oxidation.(don't soak the entire cable in the water, just the tip and remember to dry it out properly, using hair dryer and flicking away the excess water).
 

 
 
I have done the ultrasonic cleaning on my ACSS cable, Speaker XLR cables and My HD800 balanced connector tip. I notice slight improvements to deep bass, mid range transparency and treble clarity.