[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or may be I need to. Or the er-6i are just as good as you say and Apple's will sound like crap after my eyes have been opened.

Somehow I doubt it. I'm perplexed at the differences between my and Spad's experience, but I'm leaning on thinking that I'm wrong. I want to chalk it up to my inexperience, but...I dunno.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Somehow I doubt it. I'm perplexed at the differences between my and Spad's experience, but I'm leaning on thinking that I'm wrong. I want to chalk it up to my inexperience, but...I dunno.

May be it was just a fit issue and the Apple's won't work for you because they don't fit right.

I have been listening to them all day and the headstage is pretty wide and deep for me.

I'll post my impressions of the NE-7M and ER-6i when I get them. I will get the NE-7m today. The ER-6i next week may be unless Amazon ships them tomorrow from Nevada.

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now you are arguing for the sake of arguing. MSRP determines quality at some heursitc level. You don't get engineering that goes into a Veyron for the price of a Mini.

I think the causal direction should be reversed, if anything. The quality affects the MRSP, probably. And sure, it's fine to use MRSP as a rough heuristic for how good a product is, but as we all know, it's an equivocal and oft-misleading proxy. There are many ways to taxonomize headphones, some more useful than others. There are three relevant taxonomies to our discussion: 1. By MRSP; 2. By street price; 3. By objective awesomeness (or rather, awesomeness without price considerations). I think 2. and 3. are far more useful than 1. Like I said, I don't think of HD25-1 II as $350 headphones or CX300 as $80 headphones. Does anyone?

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif May be it was just a fit issue and the Apple's won't work for you because they don't fit right. I have been listening to them all day and the headstage is pretty wide and deep for me. I'll post my impressions of the NE-7M and ER-6i when I get them. I will get the NE-7m today. The ER-6i next week may be unless Amazon ships them tomorrow from Nevada.

Yeap, I thought of that, and did some fiddling with the different tips, and so far no cigar. I'm looking forward to your impressions.

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Somehow I doubt it. I'm perplexed at the differences between my and Spad's experience, but I'm leaning on thinking that I'm wrong. I want to chalk it up to my inexperience, but...I dunno.

I'm equally perplexed by the difference. I recently read on one of the commercial sites a reviewer who said they were so bad that he preferred the iBuds that came with his iPod. Based on his entire post, this was obviously a young clueless kid. But this isn't true in your case. It sounds like either the 'phones were defective, they were actually the $39 version, or they simply weren't seated properly. I'm confident none of these apply, which leaves me in a quandry. I can completely understand you preferring another IEM, but you practically make them sound like a stench in the ear. I jus' dunno . . . that definitely ain't what I'm hearing.

Anyway, back to Brubeck--who sounds great on the Apples, BTW.

P.S. It's snowing like hell in Vegas!

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spad /img/forum/go_quote.gif But this isn't true in your case. It sounds like either the 'phones were defective, they were actually the $39 version, or they simply weren't seated properly. I'm confident none of these apply, which leaves me in a quandry. I can completely understand you preferring another IEM, but you practically make them sound like a stench in the ear. I jus' dunno . . . that definitely ain't what I'm hearing.

Actually, I don't think these IEMs suck. In fact, they're rather enjoyable. I just think that their less detailed and have a smaller soundstage than the ER-6is. Even after that, I still prefer the Apple IEMs for faster classical pieces. I think I said they were "faster" or something, but I'm not sure if that's the right word. Livelier. I'm still thinking it might be a fit thing, but I can't get a fit that's giving me a wide soundstage so far. Grr. We'll know more when oarnura chimes in.

So...looks like opinions are still divided on the Apple IEMs. That said, I think the naysayers have lost this one. Whatever our differences, oarnura, Spad, and I do agree that these are a good buy for iPhone users. The NuForce 7s might be a better buy, but there might be reasons to prefer the Apple IEMs.

 

[TacticalPenguin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif The idiocy is claiming that MSRP doesn't matter. MSRP determines the quality of materials that go into a product. So you can't compare anything you want. I was merely stating that it is possible for the er-6i to be better because it was more expensive to begin with and hence more work went into it. Whether it is better is up for debate. How about an analogy then? Take a 2008 Camry v6 and a 2002 Lexus LS 430 v8 both can be had for the same price, say $24000. On pure value the used LS offers more "value" by virtue of fact that the Lexus was designed to be made for $55000 instead of the Camry's $24000. The Lexus will also have more features and be refined. Would you consider that to be a fair comparison?

Do they still sell 2002 Lexuses in 2008?

They still sell Ety ER 6i's. They are now produced for less money. They obviously are old technology and no doubt they should be beaten hands down by brand new technology for the same price, no?

Now again, since current price is price I pay, why do I care? If I can get the Lexus brand new for the same price as the camry, OBVIOUSLY I'd go with the Camry, and OBVIOUSLY I'd compare them because they are in the same price range. Trying to block out products with a higher MSRP but the same actual price is like trying to block out tall people from basketball.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TacticalPenguin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do they still sell 2002 Lexuses in 2008?

Yes you can. They are called used cars or certified pre-owned.

Quote:

They still sell Ety ER 6i's. They are now produced for less money. They obviously are old technology and no doubt they should be beaten hands down by brand new technology for the same price, no?

According to some the ER4s are beaten by the Apple's? Have you been reading this thread at all?

I got the NE-7M and have been listening to them so far I still prefer the Apple. I am going to let the NE-7M burn-in more. The NE-7Ms are really fantastic for the price. I'd recommend them over the D-Jays and UE Super.fi 3s any day.

Something is off with the imaging. It has the same flat wall type imaging that plagues the others I mentioned earlier. May be a few more hours of burn-in will sort it out.

Many people consider the NE-7Ms to be much better than the er-6is. So naturally the NE-7Ms should blow away the Apple's when I listen to them. They don't, at least not for me.

Just because I have a low post count on Head-fi doesn't make me a newbie or a non-audiophile. Just a little background:

My knowledge of audio and stereo imaging comes from extensive auditions of a range of audio setups from small cheaper mid-fi systems to super high-end HI-FI speakers. I own a fantastic imaging home stereo setup. PMC GB1 speakers powered by a Bryston 5B ST amp. The big brothers of my PMC coupled with Brystons are used in quite a lot of mastering studios, like Dolby, DTS, Polygram. Coldplay uses them too. I bought these after months of auditioning many many speakers.

PMC Ltd

It would think that PMCs image properly if the sound engineers are using them to mix the stuff you listen too, no?

Of the limited set of IEMs I have tried the Apple IEM comes closest to what I would expect a good stereo to recreate. Good mind you not the best. The Apple's still sound like earphones but less so than others I have heard. I am sure there are other far better IEMs in this department but I can only base my opinion on what I have heard.

The NE-7M do a very flat wall like image, the distance between instruments isn't readily apparent even if you concentrate very hard to make them out. All the instruments and voices seem to occupy the same flat horizontal plane.

Some one who has never heard a properly set up audio system that images very well would confuse the NE-7M as having a huge soundstage. In reality the Apple produces a much more realistic stage where every instrument is suspended in its space on the stage.

With the NE-7m the voice and Sax on the Girl from Ipanema song sound as if they are coming from one single plane occupying the same space. In reality the singer and the Sax player stand apart.

Spad also expressed something similar in comparison to the er4. But you are hell bent on ignoring anything that disagrees with your presumption about Apple's product. I know you are an Etymotic research fan and see why you are so confrontational when some one puts down your beloved pair of phones.

I am offering feedback after trying and doing a proper auditions.

I trust my ears more than anyone else's and to me the Apple IEM's sound better, cleaner and image like I would expect from a quality stereo setup.

The NE-7m sounds like speakers kept too close to a wall with no room behind them to produce a deep soundstage.

Nuforce says the NE-7Ms need 24 hours burn-in and I am going to make up my mind after I have put a lot of hours on them. But those are my initial impressions.


I'll post a thread with a much more detailed review. I need to spend more time with the Apple and NE-7m. I cancelled my order of the er-6i after listening to the NE-7Ms. If they are indeed like the er-6i I'd rather not add one more variable to the mix.

 

[shigzeo]

nuforce say 24 hours but nuforce supporters on headfi will probably say that they take 500 hours to properly burn in and sound best if you still prefer the apple phones. i won't swear on that mark but im quite sure it will happen.

 

[dlamin517]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes you can. They are called used cars or certified pre-owned. According to some the ER4s are beaten by the Apple's? Have you been reading this thread at all? I got the NE-7M and have been listening to them so far I still prefer the Apple. I am going to let the NE-7M burn-in more. The NE-7Ms are really fantastic for the price. I'd recommend them over the D-Jays and UE Super.fi 3s any day. Something is off with the imaging. It has the same flat wall type imaging that plagues the others I mentioned earlier. May be a few more hours of burn-in will sort it out. Many people consider the NE-7Ms to be much better than the er-6is. So naturally the NE-7Ms should blow away the Apple's when I listen to them. They don't, at least not for me. Just because I have a low post count on Head-fi doesn't make me a newbie or a non-audiophile. Just a little background: My knowledge of audio and stereo imaging comes from extensive auditions of a range of audio setups from small cheaper mid-fi systems to super high-end HI-FI speakers. I own a fantastic imaging home stereo setup. PMC GB1 speakers powered by a Bryston 5B ST amp. The big brothers of my PMC coupled with Brystons are used in quite a lot of mastering studios, like Dolby, DTS, Polygram. Coldplay uses them too. I bought these after months of auditioning many many speakers. PMC Ltd It would think that PMCs image properly if the sound engineers are using them to mix the stuff you listen too, no? Of the limited set of IEMs I have tried the Apple IEM comes closest to what I would expect a good stereo to recreate. Good mind you not the best. The Apple's still sound like earphones but less so than others I have heard. I am sure there are other far better IEMs in this department but I can only base my opinion on what I have heard. The NE-7M do a very flat wall like image, the distance between instruments isn't readily apparent even if you concentrate very hard to make them out. All the instruments and voices seem to occupy the same flat horizontal plane. Some one who has never heard a properly set up audio system that images very well would confuse the NE-7M as having a huge soundstage. In reality the Apple produces a much more realistic stage where every instrument is suspended in its space on the stage. With the NE-7m the voice and Sax on the Girl from Ipanema song sound as if they are coming from one single plane occupying the same space. In reality the singer and the Sax player stand apart. Spad also expressed something similar in comparison to the er4. But you are hell bent on ignoring anything that disagrees with your presumption about Apple's product. I know you are an Etymotic research fan and see why you are so confrontational when some one puts down your beloved pair of phones. I am offering feedback after trying and doing a proper auditions. I trust my ears more than anyone else's and to me the Apple IEM's sound better, cleaner and image like I would expect from a quality stereo setup. The NE-7m sounds like speakers kept too close to a wall with no room behind them to produce a deep soundstage. Nuforce says the NE-7Ms need 24 hours burn-in and I am going to make up my mind after I have put a lot of hours on them. But those are my initial impressions. I'll post a thread with a much more detailed review. I need to spend more time with the Apple and NE-7m. I cancelled my order of the er-6i after listening to the NE-7Ms. If they are indeed like the er-6i I'd rather not add one more variable to the mix.

pretty much what i have been trying to say for the past few weeks. the nuforces are really not that great

 

[NajoBB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, if both cars can usually (or easily or commonly) be had for the same price then, yes, I think they are comparable. Most questions on Head-Fi have the structure "What are the best X for $Y?" And when we answer, we should and do tend to use the street prices for $Y, not the MRSP. So, to us CX300 is $25, not $50 (or whatever), HD25 is $200 not $350, etc. SR60 is sadly always $70 (actually, a lot of people say $60 here). And I think this practice here - of assuming street prices rather than MRSP - is right. It's not idiocy at all. Again, yes. Once again, think about how we answer questions. If IE8, SE310, and S.Fi5Pro were all $N headphones, and someone asks, "What are the best IEMs for $N?", you'd include all 3. And you'd say, "IE8 is the best of these. They sound as if they're worth much more!"

I agree with you to a certain degree on that. But the price varies from country to country and that's why i think that MRSP is to be taken in consideration. ER6i are cheap in US, in Europe they cost very close to MRSP. IE8 are expensive in US, here they are even cheap given the category of them. IMO, MRSP determines the category of an item. If you can find it cheaper than that's great! But that doesn't mean that it's directly comparable to a cheaper item with fixed price. Logically, you should compare two similar priced IEMs to see which is best, but it's not a fair comparison if they still have so different MRSP. They are in different categories.

 

[shigzeo]

but even msrp is inflated or reduced against demand and marketing. i think no matter what opinion is pointed against them, you can find that apple have shown that armatures do not have to cost much money at all: selling now dual balanced armatures for 80$ us including mic and remote.

manufacturers price should be anything but a guidepost for quality of sound or construction.

 

[NajoBB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif but even msrp is inflated or reduced against demand and marketing. i think no matter what opinion is pointed against them, you can find that apple have shown that armatures do not have to cost much money at all: selling now dual balanced armatures for 80$ us including mic and remote. manufacturers price should be anything but a guidepost for quality of sound or construction.

But then are the manufactures (in this case Etymotic) the ones to blame. They determine the category of an item with their price and it's suppose to be a guidepost (shure, weston and ue offerings for example are similarly priced everywhere by their category).
Regarding the cost to make an armature IEM, I'm truly exited to try these new Apple IEMs myself to see if they changed anything in that regard and that other manufacturers will wake up and lower their prices. But they need to be decent at least and i hope they will. I don't know for sure, i'll see in a couple of days.

BTW: did you saw that iLounge review? I don't care about their impressions but the pics indicate that they're build really well! Can't wait to see them in person.

 

[shigzeo]

ive not read that actually. i will probably pick one up as i don't have a home phone and im on pay as you go. will be nice to get skype on my touch.

 

[TacticalPenguin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes you can. They are called used cars or certified pre-owned. According to some the ER4s are beaten by the Apple's? Have you been reading this thread at all? blah blah blah im not a noob etc

I'm not trying to bash you or anybody else, I am just arguing against the idea that MSRP determines what you can compare. If you go by that logic, we should compare the HF5 and the ER 6i because they both have a $150 MSRP, even though the HF5 is newer and clearly better than the ER 6i.

I am also not trying to debate whether the Apple's beat any phone or not. I just don't see how you can call the ER 6i an unfair comparison when it is one of the most popular $75 IEMs among Head-fiers and in the exact same price bracket as the apple IEMs.

Since the ER 4P MSRPs for 300, isn't it an even more unfair comparison? How dare you compare the Apple IEM to it!

All I'm saying is that you can't compare things based on MSRP, it is street price. The ER 4Ps now got for $160ish, so they are compared to qjays, SA6, SF5, etc, which also go for around that price. As for the car, obviously I would get the lexus if it was likenew for the same price, I dont care about MSRP, I care about what can I get for $X?