[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taikero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lots of people like the sound from the Custom 3s, but many also dislike the fit on them, enough even to return them when they really like the sound. I personally think they'd probably sound great at their $175-$200 street price. However, I only own the X10 and am a little biased toward it, so I'm not really one to comment on the Custom 3. The only "analytical" IEM I own is the HF5, and I don't think I want another since the HF5 strikes a balance I personally enjoy. If it were me right now though (Well, I am me and did do this not 10 minutes ago), I'd order some of the $80 Shure SCL4's (Only white is that price). They're single driver but they're an absolute steal at that price (MSRP for $300, BTW). Buy Shure SCL4 Sound Isolating Earphones with Bass Port | In-Ear Professional Headphones | Musician's Friend Shure SCL4 Sound Isolating Earphones with Bass Port and more In-Ear Professional Headphones at GuitarCenter.com. Guitar Center will probably have tax, but they'll be available sooner (By end of year instead of almost mid-January). Just select "white" from the drop down box on either site. At Guitar Center at least, your CC won't be charged until they ship.

Sweet! Thanks for the shure link . I think that's what I will do.

UPDATE:- My local guitar center had the whites in stock so I picked it up for $79.99

I am listening to them now.

 

[NajoBB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know about "logically", but yes, it's reasonable to compare similarly priced IEMs. I disagree that "it's not a fair comparison if they still have so different MRSP." This seems to be the argument: 1. MRSP-range determines "category." 2. IEMs should be compared within-category. 3. From 1. and 2., IEMs should be compared within MRSP-range. The argument is valid, as 3 follows from 1 and 2, as far as I can tell. And 2 is uncontroversial, I think. But I submit that 1 is false. I just don't see why MRSP-range should determine category if by category, you mean something about quality. MRSP is a common heuristic for quality, but I don't think it's a good one. If it's used at all, it should be used with caution. It's an empirical question, of course, how good MRSP is at tracking quality. If 2 is false, as I submit but admittedly have no data to firmly conclude, then the argument is unsound and the conclusion should be rejected.

False? I think not, and here's why

Let's take three different models from Shure; se530 (449$), se420(349$) and se210(149$). Are they in the same category? No. How can you tell?

Another example: Westone UM1(109$), UM2(299$) and W3(399$). Again, what indicates the category of the product here?

Now, which from these two (UM1-se210, UM2-se420, W3-se530) is better value for the money is up to us to decide, but they are already categorized by their MRSP.

 

[jonathanjong]

@NajoBB:

Ok, what you've shown is that within a manufacturer, MRSP is a good categorization principle. I concede that. I just don't think it works across manufacturers. Case in point: Bose. Indeed, Bose shows that even street prices are equivocal category-makers. But of the two, street prices make more useful (and, I submit, therefore better) category-makers.

 

[Taikero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif @NajoBB: Ok, what you've shown is that within a manufacturer, MRSP is a good categorization principle. I concede that. I just don't think it works across manufacturers. Case in point: Bose. Indeed, Bose shows that even street prices are equivocal category-makers. But of the two, street prices make more useful (and, I submit, therefore better) category-makers.

.....And of course, Head-Fi exists because even street prices (on top of manufacturer-specific product information) aren't a good enough indication of a headphone product's worth to an individual customer's needs!

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taikero /img/forum/go_quote.gif .....And of course, Head-Fi exists because even street prices (on top of manufacturer-specific product information) aren't a good enough indication of a headphone product's worth to an individual customer's needs!

QFT!

 

[NajoBB]

Street prices are unstable: they change constantly and varies from shop to shop. They are many cases where you could find high-end model for the inferior price than mid-end model of the same manufacturer. Not a good category indicator IMO.

 

[ak40ozKevin]

JonathanJong is right on this matter guys. It's ****ing frustrating to read this thread. JonathanJong has been polite and courteous to you guys when he broke down his logic and reasoning behind his comparison.

I have a feeling there's only 2-3 people arguing against him because it's simply common sense to everyone else!

I'm sorry but you guys need to GTFO of the thread already jeezus.

What's so hard to understand about comparing something that you or I could buy right now for one price to another thing at a similar price that I could also buy right now? It would be one thing if the pricing on the er6i was a fluke and is normally sold at $150 everywhere but this isn't the case! The er6i is available from multiple places with renewing inventories at $50-80 dollars.

BTW the MSRP doesn't have to be a direct reflection of the materials, R&D, design, or whatever else that's put into it. The Bose example is completely valid.

Thanks for the review jonathanjong. I've been considering purchasing these for my gf later but now I'm looking at those shures as that is a fluke deal that shouldn't be passed up!

 

[NajoBB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak40ozKevin /img/forum/go_quote.gif JonathanJong is right on this matter guys. It's ****ing frustrating to read this thread. JonathanJong has been polite and courteous to you guys when he broke down his logic and reasoning behind his comparison. I have a feeling there's only 2-3 people arguing against him because it's simply common sense to everyone else! I'm sorry but you guys need to GTFO of the thread already jeezus. What's so hard to understand about comparing something that you or I could buy right now for one price to another thing at a similar price that I could also buy right now? It would be one thing if the pricing on the er6i was a fluke and is normally sold at $150 everywhere but this isn't the case! The er6i is available from multiple places with renewing inventories at $50-80 dollars. BTW the MSRP doesn't have to be a direct reflection of the materials, R&D, design, or whatever else that's put into it. The Bose example is completely valid. Thanks for the review jonathanjong. I've been considering purchasing these for my gf later but now I'm looking at those shures as that is a fluke deal that shouldn't be passed up!

OK........bad day huh?

I'm sure Jonathan doesn't get offended when someone simply disagree with him. Based on his post so far he seems intelligent enough

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NajoBB /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK........bad day huh? I'm sure Jonathan doesn't get offended when someone simply disagree with him. Based on his post so far he seems intelligent enough

LOL, no offense taken at all. (Did I spell offense right? I can never tell...) It's nice to have fans, though.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak40ozKevin /img/forum/go_quote.gif JonathanJong is right on this matter guys. It's ****ing frustrating to read this thread. JonathanJong has been polite and courteous to you guys when he broke down his logic and reasoning behind his comparison.

Whoa there! I don't think Jonathon took offense. What are you on about?

Quote:

I have a feeling there's only 2-3 people arguing against him because it's simply common sense to everyone else!

Its called a discussion. May be you should participate in polite discussions once in a while you might actually learn something.

Read the thread again. There are 2-3 people on both sides of the discussion.

Quote:

What's so hard to understand about comparing something that you or I could buy right now for one price to another thing at a similar price that I could also buy right now? It would be one thing if the pricing on the er6i was a fluke and is normally sold at $150 everywhere but this isn't the case! The er6i is available from multiple places with renewing inventories at $50-80 dollars.

How about this example? I just bought a Shure SCL4 for $79.99. It is absolutely unfair to compare the NE-7M and the Apple to them.

The Shures are a killer deal at the price but I wouldn't say the others are crap compared to them. The black SCL4 still has a street price of $249. This is a total fluke that I can even compare all three at the same price point. That is why street price is a bad comparison category.

Usually the SCL4 would never be compared at this level. Shure has discontinued the SCL4 white, so once stock runs out no one will compare the SCl4 black at $249 to the NE-7M and Apple IEMs while making a purchase decision.

The MSRP price points are clearly evident in the sound qualities of all 3 phones.

NE-7M < Apple IEM < SCL4

Quote:

Thanks for the review jonathanjong. I've been considering purchasing these for my gf later but now I'm looking at those shures as that is a fluke deal that shouldn't be passed up!

After hearing the Shure's I can tell you, I wouldn't pass it up if I were you.

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oarnura /img/forum/go_quote.gif How about this example? I just bought a Shure SCL4 for $79.99. It is absolutely unfair to compare the NE-7M and the Apple to them. The Shures are a killer deal at the price but I wouldn't say the others are crap compared to them. The black SCL4 still has a street price of $249. This is a total fluke that I can even compare all three at the same price point. That is why street price is a bad comparison category.

Back to the discussion. If you're insinuating (which you might not be) that I would claim that it's appropriate to compare SCL4 to other $80 IEMs (e.g., Apple IEM, ER-6i), you'd be misunderstanding me. I hope I've been clear that by "street price", I mean "the price at which a product can easily be and is usually bought for." My paradigmatic example was HD25, which is officially priced at $350, but usually sells for $200. Like, people who buy them at $350 are schmucks. (Sorry, schmucks.

) Just clarifying.

 

[Rednamalas1]

I personally think the reviewer can review against whatever they want.

First. It's nice to compare against IEMs that you know and have owned for a while. For comparing two products that are novel wouldn't lead to best comparisons. Because of either a) you're not simply used to the sound and b)New-toy-syndrome tend to serve up more and more FOTMs.

The point is, whichever method that reduces personal biases is the best, and comparing against ER-6i in most objective manner is key - which I think OP did a good job of.

Second, I personally believe rather neutral headphones/IEMs make great choice to compare against, to establish the baseline of how other audio equipment performs. For example, K701 is often used in comparison due to its neutrality and well-known sound signatures. Hence, ER-6i serves as a good measuring stick.

Third. Why all this fuss about street price vs. MSRP? It is a simple review, and reviewer can assess value of each individual product. I have seen wonderful comparison reviews of two or more products that have large price gaps in between. Who cares?

Lastly, It's his review and impressions. Why all the nit-picking? I thought he did a wonderful job describing a new product for people of head-fi to get an idea. He took his own time and effort to come out with this review. You don't have to praise every single line of the review, but don't smear crap all over it to drive away all the people who could benefit from this. This discussion of MSRP vs street price has carried on for several pages and is now pointless.

Let's move on. Some people need rest, and I need my gin.

Cheers,
Red.

 

[oarnura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back to the discussion. If you're insinuating (which you might not be) that I would claim that it's appropriate to compare SCL4 to other $80 IEMs (e.g., Apple IEM, ER-6i), you'd be misunderstanding me. I hope I've been clear that by "street price", I mean "the price at which a product can easily be and is usually bought for." My paradigmatic example was HD25, which is officially priced at $350, but usually sells for $200. Like, people who buy them at $350 are schmucks. (Sorry, schmucks. ) Just clarifying.

Understood. I think you partly understood my MSRP argument too.

I got to say even compared to the SCL4s the Apple's hold thier own. They have a little more bass and are much easier to listen too for long periods.

I am very impressed with the $80 Apple IEM. But I can only keep one so I must decide if it is the SCL4 or the Apple.

 

[psikey]

So, cutting through all this crap, are the Apple's worth buying or not.

I went from lowly Sony earpuds right up to Shure SE530's based on what I've read on Head-fi.

I'm not an audiophile but can easily tell the quality of the Shure SE530's over anything I've listemed to before.

I like the idea of these Apples as a second set for workouts as I don't want to get my expensive Shures messed up.

Will these be better that Sony EX71 type, low end Shures etc?

I do want some bass but not the overpowering type. The remote functions appeal to me as I already use the Shure music adapter with my Nano 4th gen which does everything the new apple ones do except no volume adjustment.

 

[jonathanjong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by psikey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I like the idea of these Apples as a second set for workouts as I don't want to get my expensive Shures messed up.

From this, I'd give a resounding, "No." These might be the most microphonic IEMs I've heard, potentially even surpassing the CX300. If, like me, you find microphonic IEMs unacceptable for gym-work then the answer is "No."