[tinyman392]

  Aye, me neither.
In the corner of me soul, I still pray thee 400S is thee shiney booteh that steals me heart to leave the 560 behind
With thee 560 next to me, I see it not reasonable.
Then again, one can dream a wee 

 
Before me pirate talk gets any worsey 

 
Back to waiting! I really look forward to sharin what me thinks :]

Only a couple more days, right?  Just hibernate for a few days.  You'll be well-rested for them  

 

[conquerator2]

 
Only a couple more days, right?  Just hibernate for a few days.  You'll be well-rested for them  

Yup! Monday it should be!
Tyll hyped the 400S so much, I really started to believe they are the giant killer.
For a second
Anyway, 

 
If I am underwhelmed, at least I'll know I don't share his taste 

 

[tinyman392]

  Yup! Monday it should be!
Tyll hyped the 400S so much, I really started to believe they are the giant killer.
For a second
Anyway, 

 
If I am underwhelmed, at least I'll know I don't share his taste 

If you enjoy the 560, you probably don't share his personal tastes  The 400S does fit Tyll's preferences quite well with the unoffendingly smooth signature.  It's its strength, but IMO, also its demise  We'll see how you feel about them though.  It's not a bad 'phone.  

 

[bracko]

Yup! Monday it should be!
Tyll hyped the 400S so much, I really started to believe they are the giant killer.
For a second
Anyway, 

If I am underwhelmed, at least I'll know I don't share his taste 

We all know what kind of sound Tyll likes

 

[Noldir]

Egads! I just looked at the Innerfidelity measurements, and the HE400S has finally dethroned the HD600/HD650 in the under $500 segment. Impressively low distortion, and very linear FR. Despite being a long time HD 650 owner, I'd say this is a better buy in both technical performance and value. I'm tempted to sell off my HD 650 for this, and keep the HD 800 on my main setup...

Measurements are all nice and well, but could you tell us how they compare? I'm contemplating selling the HD650 but I was wondering how it compares to the HE400S

 

[Pianist]

  Well, I prefer HE400S to X2, HD650, HD600 and any other headphone up to $500 that I had/auditioned. The impact of drum kicks are just very addicting and vocals are just superb. Since HE-1000 is too expensive for me, I'll keep HE400S until HifiMan updates HE560 with a new model. Audezes are too heavy (and EL line isn't worth the money), Oppos are too expensive in Europe and I'm not sure I could go back to dynamic headphones now. I have a feeling that Fostex is going to release a kick-ass planar with TH900 level bass. Now that would be something.

 
Can you provide details as to why you prefer HE-400S over the others in under $500 range? I understand that you prefer the bass on the HE-400S. I can definitely understand that, as planars tend to be especially capable at reproducing the low frequencies and that's where the greatest difference between dynamics and planars lies.
 
Personally, I don't really have a clear preference between dynamics and planars - I think both types of drivers have their strengths and weaknesses and I can't say one or the other is better overall. I think it just comes down to preference and what type of presentation you prefer and what you value more in sound reproduction. There are people who claimed and probably still do that Hifiman's older line - the HE500 and HE-6 - were already superior to any current dynamic, including the HD800 in sound quality. I certainly don't agree with that and I think high quality dynamics like HD800, or even something much cheaper, but really well made like HD600 or Fidelio X2 can take on planars just fine when it comes to sound quality. There are things that planars inherently have more potential to do better like bass impact and texture, or clarity in the highs, but dynamics also do some things better IMO, like imaging specificity (dynamics tend to sound sharper, more focused, better defined in terms of micro detail/texture than planars, which sound more diffuse and perhaps even somewhat bland when it comes to fine texture in sounds. So I think dynamics can have better soundstage than planars, especially dynamics with large, angled drivers like HD800.

 

[conquerator2]

 
If you enjoy the 560, you probably don't share his personal tastes  The 400S does fit Tyll's preferences quite well with the unoffendingly smooth signature.  It's its strength, but IMO, also its demise  We'll see how you feel about them though.  It's not a bad 'phone.  

I believe the source should also play a part. Chances are if they're very smooth already, an R2R DAC might not do that good. Or it will save them
Also, the pads, which I believe can make a difference in the bass [all the posts about the roll-off].

 

[tinyman392]

Measurements are all nice and well, but could you tell us how they compare? I'm contemplating selling the HD650 but I was wondering how it compares to the HE400S

 
Reading a frequency graph is nearly as much art as it is objective...  If you've heard a headphone before, it explains a lot of what you hear.  If you haven't, you end up using correlations that you're familiar with to generate what a headphone will sound like.  The latter is a less accurate way to determine how a headphone sounds.  Used in conjunction with objective measurements, it can confirm what someone hears and says.  On its own, it becomes sort of like a guessing game IMO.  
 

  I believe the source should also play a part. Chances are if they're very smooth already, an R2R DAC might not do that good. Or it will save them
Also, the pads, which I believe can make a difference in the bass [all the posts about the roll-off].

 
Yes, pads do make a difference with bass response.  These are open on the sides which can absorb some sound and reflect less.  What it absorbs isn't known  I should do some pad comparison when I get the chance.  I remember the 560 sounded a little smoother with the softer pads and non-leather inner lining.  I'm curious if the pads can help the 400S.  
 
EDIT: As for the source, these may be a little picky about that.  I want to use a cold source with them to push the treble a bit...  But I also want to use a source that can help with the sub-bass extension...  But I don't want to touch the central regions at all  Such dilemma  

 

[obsidyen]

...

 

[Noldir]

Reading a frequency graph is nearly as much art as it is objective...  If you've heard a headphone before, it explains a lot of what you hear.  If you haven't, you end up using correlations that you're familiar with to generate what a headphone will sound like.  The latter is a less accurate way to determine how a headphone sounds.  Used in conjunction with objective measurements, it can confirm what someone hears and says.  On its own, it becomes sort of like a guessing game IMO.   

I don't quite follow where you're going with this reply, seeing as you give the "subjective" advice I was looking for regarding the earpads. Let's just chalk it up to "text sucks"

Having said that, the HD650 is quite the famous headphone and a bit of a benchmark so a lot of people know what to expect when you can compare it to that. Basically I'd like to know things like " how's the bass, how does it handle detailing, does it do vocals better or worse, etc".

The graphs are all good and well and it's good to hear it measures so well but unfortunately this leaves out the "soul" of the headphones. Especially seeing as they use completely different driver techniques! And of course it's all subjective, but after reading a few reviews there's always the common denominator that you can discover.

 

[sheldaze]

Measurements are all nice and well, but could you tell us how they compare? I'm contemplating selling the HD650 but I was wondering how it compares to the HE400S

 
 

   
Personally, I don't really have a clear preference between dynamics and planars - I think both types of drivers have their strengths and weaknesses and I can't say one or the other is better overall. I think it just comes down to preference and what type of presentation you prefer and what you value more in sound reproduction. There are people who claimed and probably still do that Hifiman's older line - the HE500 and HE-6 - were already superior to any current dynamic, including the HD800 in sound quality. I certainly don't agree with that and I think high quality dynamics like HD800, or even something much cheaper, but really well made like HD600 or Fidelio X2 can take on planars just fine when it comes to sound quality. There are things that planars inherently have more potential to do better like bass impact and texture, or clarity in the highs, but dynamics also do some things better IMO, like imaging specificity (dynamics tend to sound sharper, more focused, better defined in terms of micro detail/texture than planars, which sound more diffuse and perhaps even somewhat bland when it comes to fine texture in sounds. So I think dynamics can have better soundstage than planars, especially dynamics with large, angled drivers like HD800.

While the HD650 are not on the same scale at the HD800 (size of soundstage, speed, and incredible detail), I would not sell my HD650 for the same reasons that Pianist has listed above. I may not pick the exact right words in this next sentence - the HE-400S definitely handles energy, such as drum sound, and it brings vocals closer. But the cohesion of the sound as a whole is not the same to me as when listening to my HD650.

 

[tinyman392]

I don't quite follow where you're going with this reply, seeing as you give the "subjective" advice I was looking for regarding the earpads. Let's just chalk it up to "text sucks"

Having said that, the HD650 is quite the famous headphone and a bit of a benchmark so a lot of people know what to expect when you can compare it to that. Basically I'd like to know things like " how's the bass, how does it handle detailing, does it do vocals better or worse, etc".

The graphs are all good and well and it's good to hear it measures so well but unfortunately this leaves out the "soul" of the headphones. Especially seeing as they use completely different driver techniques! And of course it's all subjective, but after reading a few reviews there's always the common denominator that you can discover.

That subjective advice I gave between the ear pads was also measured BTW (from another forum, I don't think I'm allowed to state its name)  I don't have the original graphs for that, but neither pad explained there is of the 400S unfortunately.  I'm now curious to listen to the 400S with the 3 pads, which I plan on doing when I have the time now  
 
As for the statements I said about the graphs, essentially, all I was saying is that the graphs are a guessing game unless you've heard the headphone, then it can be used as a tool to confirm what your ears are hearing.  With that said, you're absolutely right, once you get a general idea of how the entire crowd hears something (common denominator), you begin coming upon a consensus.  

 

[Pianist]

  HE-560 is a Ferrari. HE-400S is BMW M3.

It's a really complete all-rounder below $500. Yes, it doesn't have the resolution and detail of HE560 but it doesn't have to, it just doesn't compete at and for that level. HD650 is much slower than HE400S, it's easily apparent when you listen to some trance. I like EDM so HD650 is a no no for me. Fidelio X2, my former favourite below $500 is a great headphone but HE400S' smooth and clean treble is in my opinion better X2's. And while X2 has more mid-bass, the impact on HE400S is better, X2's bass is a bit looser compared to HE400S. Also HE400S vocals are far better. HE400i I didn't like, I think HE400S --> HE560 is a natural update progression but HE400i just wasn't for me. Dark in a weird way.
 
In short, there are headphones with better bass, better detail etc etc. than HE400S below $500 but none of them has the complete package like HE400S.  I just like good all-rounders. I don't like headphones with extremes.

 
Thanks for the comparison. I do believe the HD650 and X2 are also very good all arounders. In what way are the vocals on the HE-400S so much better to you than on the X2? Is it the clarity or resolution? Or perhaps timbre naturalness/realism? X2 has a very flat midrange, so linearity shouldn't be an issue with it. Actually X2 has a flatter midrange than the HE-400S on paper with a smoother frequency response. I suppose the extra bass of the X2 may push the vocals back a bit compared to the leaner bass on the HE-400S that certainly doesn't affect the midrange in any way. It could be due to difference in speed, but I doubt it. I personally couldn't really hear faster speed with planars over dynamics in the mids. I think dynamics are just as capable in the mids if the distortion is low and frequency response linearity is good.

 

[john57]

For me comparing the X2 with the 400S using InnerFidelity graphs the midrange looks smoother on the 400S not the X2.

 

[john57]

   
I do believe the HD650 and X2 are also very good all arounders. In what way are the vocals on the HE-400S so much better to you than on the X2? Is it the clarity or resolution?

For me you can not have good clarity without resolution unless those terms definitions are different for you.