[Rob80b]

I'm quite tempted to just bring the Sennheiser into the house and be done.....

Sounds like a plan....JFYI my HDVD800 did replace a SMSL HO100...I would like to believe it performs better, although many have said the HDVD800 was geared to get the best out of Sennheiser's own.

But now you got me thinking of getting a SMSL C200 for my iMac.........like I said a fickle bunch..... lol

 

[headstef]

Well we are a fickle bunch..so if we think it sounds better, it will, maybe, possibly, and vice versa.....who can really definitively say, maybe the $200 unit performs as well as the $2000 one or even the $20,000 unit...which one is the most rewarding.....life is complicated. lol

Yeah... you're a great help......!

I just listened to the headphone output from my MOTU 828MKII digital audio interface (https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/motu-828-mkii) in the studio and compared it to the HDVD800 (same files from the computer). I have to say that it sounded remarkably good. Not quite as refined, perhaps, but no less enjoyable TBH. I'm quite tempted to just bring the Sennheiser into the house and be done.....

One of the reasons that made me set up a very high quality headphone system was to explore the limits of digital reproduction and the relative differences among the various price ranges. I could have never believed just to what reviewers, magazines and makers say (no one with commercial interests). I have already found significant differences (always verified with blind listenings, or they don't exist for me). All these have been found between several CD players of various designs and prices (€100 to €1000) and three dacs (two at almost € 2000 and one very old at € 200). So I have not listened to medium priced separate dacs, only those included in CD players. I really want to know at what price point the differences become insignificant with absolute standards, it is question not yet answered for me.

Today, discussing dacs on the phone with a friend, I asked him about his opinion on a Cambridge Audio Azur Dac Magic that I knew he had in his office system. He told me that he replaced it a few days ago with a two-box Musical Fidelity V-90 (dac+dedicated power supply). Of all dacs, it is the one I mentioned in my previous post!!! To make a long story short, here I am with both dacs, offered by him for me to listen, since he will not need them in his office for the next three days. They are not new designs (decade old) but are worthy examples of what European designers offered in relatively budget range (under € 500). I am happy that I am going to listen to these and compare them with what I have. My NDH 30 and Lehmann Linear II D are absolutely up to the task. Of course I will report my results here in a couple of days. Knowing where these stand among my other digital sources, I will also be able to judge better other more recent budget dacs, such as by SMSL or Topping when I listen to them.

 

[Mike F]

One of the reasons that made me set up a very high quality headphone system was to explore the limits of digital reproduction and the relative differences among the various price ranges. I could have never believed just to what reviewers, magazines and makers say (no one with commercial interests). I have already found significant differences (always verified with blind listenings, or they don't exist for me). All these have been found between several CD players of various designs and prices (€100 to €1000) and three dacs (two at almost € 2000 and one very old at € 200). So I have not listened to medium priced separate dacs, only those included in CD players. I really want to know at what price point the differences become insignificant with absolute standards, it is question not yet answered for me.

Today, discussing dacs on the phone with a friend, I asked him about his opinion on a Cambridge Audio Azur Dac Magic that I knew he had in his office system. He told me that he replaced it a few days ago with a two-box Musical Fidelity V-90 (dac+dedicated power supply). Of all dacs, it is the one I mentioned in my previous post!!! To make a long story short, here I am with both dacs, offered by him for me to listen, since he will not need them in his office for the next three days. They are not new designs (decade old) but are worthy examples of what European designers offered in relatively budget range (under € 500). I am happy that I am going to listen to these and compare them with what I have. My NDH 30 and Lehmann Linear II D are absolutely up to the task. Of course I will report my results here in a couple of days. Knowing where these stand among my other digital sources, I will also be able to judge better other more recent budget dacs, such as by SMSL or Topping when I listen to them.

Great! That will be very helpful and interesting. I do have a hard time believing that a €200 SMSL or Topping DAC will sound as good, musically, as something like the Musical Fidelity, even if they measure better. But then I long ago realised (or came to think for myself) that measurements, although important to an extent, don't tell the whole story when it comes to musical engagement. As a musician I used to laugh at the idea that a piece of equipment could be 'musical' (a term often used by reviewers to describe a CD player, amp, etc) but I now have to admit that there is something to be said for the descriptor.

 

[chesebert]

My Topping D90SE impression, hope this helps: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/benchmark-your-high-end-system-against-this….967452/#post-17476994

 

[Mike F]

My Topping D90SE impression, hope this helps: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/benchmark-your-high-end-system-against-this….967452/#post-17476994

Thank you! For now the HDVD 800 is in the house with the iMac. Needless to say it sounds far better than the iMacs own audio output making YT content and perhaps the occasional DVD a much better experience. To be honest I may or may not replace it with something for the computer in the studio which I use mostly for recording, not music listening. I have my music library hard drive there, but that can easily be brought into the house, and as it’s only a duplicate of most of the CDs that I have it’s pretty superfluous there as I do most of my listening with my SA-10 and ATCs via a Mark Levinson pre amp, and I’m happy with the Lehmann SE which is connected directly to the SA-10 for headphone listening. I’m not streaming. However, your impressions and comparison to the Emm Labs DAC2xV2 was very helpful. My wallet sends its regards…….

And thanks to everyone who made suggestions. Much appreciated! Back to the NDH 30!

 

[Rob80b]

For now the HDVD 800 is in the house with the iMac.

Sounds like the most logical solution.....

YT content and perhaps the occasional DVD a much better experience.

...might be overkill though...lol.

Although I'm using the distant cousin for a similar set-up and sounds pretty good IMHO. : )

The 630VB…with its remote and mike controls is perfect for Cell, Facetime, WhatsApp calls and hooking up to a laptop or the iMac in the kitchen.

 

[Mike F]

Sounds like the most logical solution.....

...might be overkill though...lol.

Although I'm using the distant cousin for a similar set-up and sounds pretty good IMHO. : )

I was referring to the HDVD 800 for that purpose - not the NDH 30!

 

[Mike F]

This, OTOH, is very likely!

 

[Rob80b]

I was referring to the HDVD 800 for that purpose - not the NDH 30!

Got that....Should have said...I'm using the distant cousin of the NHD30 for my "iMac solution". : )

 

[Mike F]

Got that....Should have said...I'm using the distant cousin of the NHD30 for my "iMac solution". : )

Flute!?

 

[Rob80b]

Flute!?

Thought you knew that.....we've been in a love hate relationship going on 50 + years....starting with Jethro Tull, Yousef Lateef and Bach in the the early 70s : )

 

[Mike F]

Thought you knew that.....we've been in a love hate relationship going on 50 + years....starting with Jethro Tull, Yousef Lateef and Bach in the the early 70s : )

Oh Yes, I remember now!

 

[chesebert]

I found a good low cost amp option for NDH30. I have an old AMB M3 (details here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/katz’s-corner-episode-7-mosfet-magic) that has been gather dust for the past few years. On a whim I bought a pair of Staccato Audio discrete hybrid opamps (details here: https://www.dagogo.com/staccato-audio-discrete-hybrid-opamps-review/) just to play around with them. After some fiddling and adjustments, I can safely say that the AMB M3 with Staccato Audio discrete opamps perform very very close to my GSX amp with NDH30, with M3 being slightly warmer than GSX but GSX goes a smidge deeper in the bass.

The long and short of it is both amps perform very close with each other when driving NDH30.

 

[headstef]

I found a good low cost amp option for NDH30. I have an old AMB M3 (details here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/katz’s-corner-episode-7-mosfet-magic) that has been gather dust for the past few years. On a whim I bought a pair of Staccato Audio discrete hybrid opamps (details here: https://www.dagogo.com/staccato-audio-discrete-hybrid-opamps-review/) just to play around with them. After some fiddling and adjustments, I can safely say that the AMB M3 with Staccato Audio discrete opamps perform very very close to my GSX amp with NDH30, with M3 being slightly warmer than GSX but GSX goes a smidge deeper in the bass.

The long and short of it is both amps perform very close with each other when driving NDH30.

Interesting upgrade! A couple of months ago I used two pairs of Staccatto Audio discrete opamps (2 dual + 2single) to upgrade my Rotel RCD-991 CD player (about € 800 when new) . It is old (20 years) but I like it very much as a device so I thought I could give it a new life. The improvement was immediately audible but not as significant as I'd wish, maybe because the original Burr-Brown and Philips integrated opams were already very good. However, more detail, harmonic tones and ambience was added to its sound, making it more "open" and bringing it very close to my best sounding CD player, which is not my most expensive: a recent Denon DCD 100 compact or 2/3 size player (€ 600). This one I use as a CD transport for my headphone system because it is small, silent and of very high quality.

Continuing about my dac comparisons that I mentioned earlier:
The last two nights I had a very hard time trying to tell which combination sounds best:
- the above Denon as a CD player or,
- the Denon as a transport feeding the Cambridge Audio azur DacMagic.
They are VERY close to each other but finally there were some times that I juuust heard the Denon as a player taking the edge over the Denon+Dacmagic. The opposite happened less times.

It is now the turn of the Musical Fidelity V90 DAC + V-PSUii power supply to be compared with the (stand alone) Denon. My brief initial impression is that the MF V90 surpasses the internal dac of the Denon. If this is further and clearly verified (blind listenings), the V90 will be compared with my references: The Chord Qutest and the internal dac of the Lehmann Linear D II. (Everything is listened to through the Lehmann + NDH 30).
These two personal references very easily glow above anything else I have, but it took me very long and tiring listenings to just tell that the Qutest has a little (very little) more natural mids than the internal dac of the Lehmann. They are both TOTL dacs, tremendously detailed and natural, with the "blackest blacks" at the silent passages. Their little difference, which is at the limits of audibility, was finally revealed when I got the NDH 30 but was totally inaudible with the HD-650.

 

[Mike F]

I think that integrated DACs always have an advantage over separate DACs. Separates can of course sound better, but I think that they actually have to be quite a bit better to overcome the disadvantages of sending a signal from one box to another. I think the connections (not the cable) are the limiting factors, but I’m no expert on this topic. One thing is for sure - the NDH 30 is capable of exposing the most subtle of system differences.