[Rob80b]

Oh Yes, I remember now!

Strictly as an amateur though....could never finish practising my scales as I'd always get distracted and start improvising for an hour or two.

 

[thejewk]

Strictly as an amateur though....could never finish practising my scales as I'd always get distracted and start improvising for an hour or two.

As an amateur recorder player, soprano to bass, I can empathise with that. Bach wrote some wonderful flute work, and recorder work too. Did you ever take a look at Telemann? His Fantasias for solo flute are incredibly fun to play.

 

[Rob80b]

………….. Did you ever take a look at Telemann? His Fantasias for solo flute are incredibly fun to play.

I must have over the years….but just to be sure…..
https://tidal.com/album/187431318
…could easily get carried away and turn them all into Irish Jigs…although Galway probably already has. : )

 

[Mike F]

Sorry to return to this, but I have a question. Again, I know many people here have a greater experience of this than I do so I'm appealing to their better knowledge. Today I moved the external hard drive that contains my iTunes library from the studio to the home computer. At the moment I can't see all of the files which I know are there in Apple Music on the iMac, but that's a minor issue which I will have to sort out. However, more concerning is that it doesn't sound as good as before. In the studio I had the HDVD 800 connected vis an optical cable to a rather ancient 2.7 GHz Dual G5 Power Mac, but I have it connected via USB in the house to the iMac. Could that account for the loss of sound quality, or could it be because in the studio I was using a high quality mains cable and using a mains conditioner (both for the computer and the amp)? I expected some loss of quality due to the ordinary mains cables and no conditioner, but is that likely to be the main reason, or is the main reason more likely to be the USB connection vs the Toslink?

 

[Rob80b]

In the studio I had the HDVD 800 connected vis an optical cable

Too many variables for me to give a definitive answer….many say usb is the last route but most iMacs have an optical out to double check… though you’ll need an adapter for the audio port.

 

[chesebert]

USB is one of the worst ways to connect a source to DAC. Best to worst: proprietary fiber optic > ethernet network (fiber SFP) > ethernet network (RJ45) > I2S > AES > toslink/spdif > USB > Airplay > Bluetooth

 

[Mike F]

USB is one of the worst ways to connect a source to DAC. Best to worst: proprietary fiber optic > ethernet network > I2S > AES > toslink/spdif > USB > Airplay > Bluetooth

I did suspect that was the main reason....

 

[Mike F]

Too many variables for me to give a definitive answer….many say usb is the last route but most iMacs have an optical out to double check… though you’ll need an adapter for the audio port.

My iMac doesn't have an optical out AFAIK, unless it's disguised in some way? Where would you plug in the adapter? Is there an optical out hidden in the 3.5 headphone jack??

 

[Rob80b]

USB is one of the worst ways to connect a source to DAC. Best to worst: proprietary fiber optic > ethernet network (fiber SFP) > ethernet network (RJ45) > I2S > AES > toslink/spdif > USB > Airplay > Bluetooth

Was thinking optical and toslink should be rather close, probably depends on the implementation, some mention preferring it over optical...I could never tell but haven't had enough experience with multiple DACs.

 

[Rob80b]

My iMac doesn't have an optical out AFAIK, unless it's disguised in some way? Where would you plug in the adapter? Is there an optical out hidden in the 3.5 headphone jack??

Yes..it's integrated with the 3.5 headphone jack....been for years but many do not know this so you are not alone.

Was just checking..it may have been eliminated after 2017 so depends on the age of your iMac.

 

[Mike F]

Was just checking..it may have been eliminated after 2017 so depends on the age of your iMac.

It’s late 2014. I can’t afford new computers you know – buying too many headphones instead…..

 

[chesebert]

Yes..it's integrated with the 3.5 headphone jack....been for years but many do not know this so you are not alone.

Was just checking..it may have been eliminated after 2017 so depends on the age of your iMac.

Fiber and toslink are two completely different animals. Toslink is based on SPDIF protocol and will have clock muxed with the signal, which the DAC would need to de-mux and recover. Proprietary fiber means a completely different codec for the audio signal that is specific to a brand (Emm Labs, Playback Designs for example) and the digital signal and clock can be sent separately or not at all if there is a separate data cable connecting the dac with the source. Network fiber (SPF) is just your everyday ethernet but using fiber to eliminate any noise. I have seen folks doing the RJ45 to fiber to RJ45 which I think is half-assed way, because you are reintroducing potential ground noise into the system via the RJ45 connector (yes even though the RJ45 is transformer coupled, that doesn't eliminate all noise).

 

[Rob80b]

Fiber and toslink are two completely different animals........

Ok thanks....Haven't lost much sleep over it, only connection I have going on is an optical cable from my OLED TV to one of my Cambridge CXN although I have a coax and or optical running from my CXC CD transport to the other CXN in the living room.

 

[jagwap]

USB is one of the worst ways to connect a source to DAC. Best to worst: proprietary fiber optic > ethernet network (fiber SFP) > ethernet network (RJ45) > I2S > AES > toslink/spdif > USB > Airplay > Bluetooth

Why do you specify that order of quality?

While USB does not give electrical isolation (but it can easily if you galvanically isolate the USB), it can be entirely jitter free as a format, unlike most of the other formats if it is asynchronous type of USB connection. Then the DAC runs on its own clock which can be as good as the designer can make, and demands the data packets as it requires them.

I2S is either relatively good, if the DAC is the master for bit and work clock, or potentially terrible if it is not over distance.

Toslink is galvanically isolated, but riddled with jitter compared to the unisolated electrical SPDIF (if well impedance matched, if you were grouping those together). AES EBU is only maginally better due to being balanced, but is often not well impedance matched due to the use of XLR connectors and indifferent cable impedance matching. SPDIF othen uses RCA phone connectors, which occasionally are well matched, but usually not, so you should always use 75ohm BNC when possible.

Airplay is not bit perfect, and is so badly designed it actually skips samples rather than synchronises clocks.

Bluetooth is not even close to lossless, despite marketing. ABTX and LDAC make a reasonable stab at quality, but no one here talkign about wired headphones is likely to use BT for their DAC. That would be nonsense.

As to Ether RJ45, it can be fine, or really noisy. There is no spec for clean audio connections. Also it depends on how the streaming is handled. I must say I am not familiar with this apart from Dante (master clock is possible but unlikely in a large system) and a couple of other formats like AES67. These are expensive and pro audio formats.

So galvanically isolated asynchronous USB is probably the best audio data format available to the domestic user.

Is there a reason you disagree? I like to learn new things.

 

[chesebert]

I ranked the digital interface based on personal experience. USB has time and time again sounded worse to me compared with alternatives. I personally avoid USB if there is a choice.