[Mike F]

Recent review with some measurements:-

 

[chesebert]

Did the reviewer just read the ad Neumann handed him, ran some b-rolls and explained some graphs other folks generated? What am I seeing there? At least he was honest about getting a free pair of cans.

 

[erics75]

Did the reviewer just read the ad Neumann handed him, ran some b-rolls and explained some graphs other folks generated? What am I seeing there? At least he was honest about getting a free pair of cans.

That's why I despise most youtube reviewers. They're just churning out empty "reviews" so they get more gear.

 

[jamesjames]

Recent review with some measurements:-

Thanks for that. I recently came across the review in Headphonesty, which was different again - not exactly glowing, but quite interesting (particularly in view of some comments at the end about the connection with Sennheiser). Of course, many of the reviews (and often measurements!) are different, as are personal reactions to the phones in this thread. But it's one of the useful things this site can do I think - point people in the direction of what's being written and said by others - let the reader decide what to make of it all.

 

[starence]

Has anyone tried re-terminating the stock cable with a balanced connector? I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, but it would be nice to have confirmation.

 

[headstef]

Has anyone tried re-terminating the stock cable with a balanced connector? I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, but it would be nice to have confirmation.

I think it is possible. I only did it with a stock cable of the HD-560S as a cheap solution for the NDH-30 (described some posts earlier). The most "difficult" part is to prepare the individually insulated strands (litz type?) for soldering because as they are they don't accept soldering. The insulating enamel has to be burned for half a second first with a very small flame (small lighter) and then scrape/clean it to leave only pure copper. It can be frustrating but it works. I think the enamel can be removed chemically too, so maybe someone can propose a proper way. The NDH 30 stock cable is internally symmetrical so theoretically it can be well modified with a new plug at the amp end. Possibly it is of individual strand insulation type, too. For 4.4mm "pentaconn" type plug choose one with enough room for soldering and cable attachment. I worked with smaller ones and it was challenging/time consuming. XLR types have no problem with room and soldering. Bigger "pentaconn" plugs can be found at around € 30 or more. I would absolutely prefer to modify the very high quality stock cable (€ 80 as a replacement) leaving its proprietary 2.5mm plug at the headphone end, than ordering a custom cable.

 

[thejewk]

I have a few questions, if anyone would be so kind as to answer them. I've been using a pair of Fidelio X2s and some Fiio FH5 iems for a number of years now with pleasure, and I have been saving money with a view to buying a high quality set of open backs that will last for the foreseeable future. I want to buy once, with no view to further upgrades, and I want them to be sturdy. These headphones have caught my eye, and I am hoping to pick up a pair next month.

I listen to a very wide range of different types of music, and want to make sure I'm not making a faux pas by buying something expensive that will not be suitable. Unfortunately, I am disabled with quite restricted mobility, so I am not able to sample headphones in a store.

I listen to a lot of 'classical music', particularly baroque era, and from the late romantic era through to modern music, running from Mahler and Bruckner through Schoenberg to Ligeti and Shostakovich. I strongly value natural timbres, capturing the natural characteristics of harpsichords, oboes, recorders, etc, as well as decent imaging required for large scale orchestral works and dense chamber ensembles.

Similarly I listen to a lot of jazz, from early and scrappily recorded dates all the way up to very dense large scale collective improvisations. Same goes for electronic music, where I listen with as much pleasure to home made lo-fi jams, all the way to the super precise pointilism of Autechre. I enjoy a similar range in pop and rock forms, but veer more towards the experimental side of things than the traditional, precisely mixed audiophile fare.

For me, I have no issue hearing the roughness in a recording when there is roughness present. I'm as happy listening through some grot on an old Melodya recording as I am on a lovely ECM disc. I am hoping for a pair of headphones that are entirely honest, and will accurately reproduce whatever I put through them. I understand that this is one of the main points of praise with these headphones, but would value input from any fellow crate diggers that like music off the beaten path.

With this in mind, do you think the Neumann NDH 30 will serve me well? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mike F]

I have a few questions, if anyone would be so kind as to answer them. I've been using a pair of Fidelio X2s and some Fiio FH5 iems for a number of years now with pleasure, and I have been saving money with a view to buying a high quality set of open backs that will last for the foreseeable future. I want to buy once, with no view to further upgrades, and I want them to be sturdy. These headphones have caught my eye, and I am hoping to pick up a pair next month.

I listen to a very wide range of different types of music, and want to make sure I'm not making a faux pas by buying something expensive that will not be suitable. Unfortunately, I am disabled with quite restricted mobility, so I am not able to sample headphones in a store.

I listen to a lot of 'classical music', particularly baroque era, and from the late romantic era through to modern music, running from Mahler and Bruckner through Schoenberg to Ligeti and Shostakovich. I strongly value natural timbres, capturing the natural characteristics of harpsichords, oboes, recorders, etc, as well as decent imaging required for large scale orchestral works and dense chamber ensembles.

Similarly I listen to a lot of jazz, from early and scrappily recorded dates all the way up to very dense large scale collective improvisations. Same goes for electronic music, where I listen with as much pleasure to home made lo-fi jams, all the way to the super precise pointilism of Autechre. I enjoy a similar range in pop and rock forms, but veer more towards the experimental side of things than the traditional, precisely mixed audiophile fare.

For me, I have no issue hearing the roughness in a recording when there is roughness present. I'm as happy listening through some grot on an old Melodya recording as I am on a lovely ECM disc. I am hoping for a pair of headphones that are entirely honest, and will accurately reproduce whatever I put through them. I understand that this is one of the main points of praise with these headphones, but would value input from any fellow crate diggers that like music off the beaten path.

With this in mind, do you think the Neumann NDH 30 will serve me well? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Great that you enjoy such a wide variety of music! I can only say that although taste in headphones is always very personal I'm sure the NDH 30 will satisfy your needs and requirements. They're certainly well built and the original box is very usable as a storage case if you so wish. It's very accurate and neutral and yet engaging at the same time. A studio monitor intended as a professional tool which is also enjoyable to listen to music of any genre on - a rare feat! That's my opinion(!), but let us know how you get on with them. I'm sure you won't be disappointed, but your honest feed-back can be helpful to others.

 

[hakunamakaka]

Did the reviewer just read the ad Neumann handed him, ran some b-rolls and explained some graphs other folks generated? What am I seeing there? At least he was honest about getting a free pair of cans.

Nothing beats your own ears. Things tend to get hyped to "lalalaland" especially in audio community

 

[jamesjames]

I have a few questions, if anyone would be so kind as to answer them. I've been using a pair of Fidelio X2s and some Fiio FH5 iems for a number of years now with pleasure, and I have been saving money with a view to buying a high quality set of open backs that will last for the foreseeable future. I want to buy once, with no view to further upgrades, and I want them to be sturdy. These headphones have caught my eye, and I am hoping to pick up a pair next month.

I listen to a very wide range of different types of music, and want to make sure I'm not making a faux pas by buying something expensive that will not be suitable. Unfortunately, I am disabled with quite restricted mobility, so I am not able to sample headphones in a store.

I listen to a lot of 'classical music', particularly baroque era, and from the late romantic era through to modern music, running from Mahler and Bruckner through Schoenberg to Ligeti and Shostakovich. I strongly value natural timbres, capturing the natural characteristics of harpsichords, oboes, recorders, etc, as well as decent imaging required for large scale orchestral works and dense chamber ensembles.

Similarly I listen to a lot of jazz, from early and scrappily recorded dates all the way up to very dense large scale collective improvisations. Same goes for electronic music, where I listen with as much pleasure to home made lo-fi jams, all the way to the super precise pointilism of Autechre. I enjoy a similar range in pop and rock forms, but veer more towards the experimental side of things than the traditional, precisely mixed audiophile fare.

For me, I have no issue hearing the roughness in a recording when there is roughness present. I'm as happy listening through some grot on an old Melodya recording as I am on a lovely ECM disc. I am hoping for a pair of headphones that are entirely honest, and will accurately reproduce whatever I put through them. I understand that this is one of the main points of praise with these headphones, but would value input from any fellow crate diggers that like music off the beaten path.

With this in mind, do you think the Neumann NDH 30 will serve me well? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

While I haven't heard the X2, I think the Fidelio X3 is very good and understand it's quite similar. I think it images very nicely, perhaps at the expense of some detail. I must say I think the X3 is very engaging. But I think you might well find the NDH30 better overall: more linear, with greater extension, less coloured. You might, however, find the imaging less convincing. These are very subjective impressions of course - very hard to predict how others will react to these nuances. If you're interested in other options, I find the Sennheiser HD800S better than the Neumann in all respects just mentioned - particularly imaging - but about twice the new price. It can be found used for about the same price as the Neumann new. The Beyerdynamic T1 (G1) is not current but can be found used for about the half the price - and I think it's also better in all relevant respects - I find it more accurate in terms of timbre than the HD800S, but not quite so 'grand' in its presentation. I think you would need pay a lot more to do better. I should add that I listen to a wide range of classical music - I particularly like chamber music.

Edit: One advantage of the Neumann I think is that it can be driven very nicely by a wider range of amps than either the Sennheiser or the Beyerdynamic - a very important consideration.

 

[headstef]

I have a few questions, if anyone would be so kind as to answer them. I've been using a pair of Fidelio X2s and some Fiio FH5 iems for a number of years now with pleasure, and I have been saving money with a view to buying a high quality set of open backs that will last for the foreseeable future. I want to buy once, with no view to further upgrades, and I want them to be sturdy. These headphones have caught my eye, and I am hoping to pick up a pair next month.

I listen to a very wide range of different types of music, and want to make sure I'm not making a faux pas by buying something expensive that will not be suitable. Unfortunately, I am disabled with quite restricted mobility, so I am not able to sample headphones in a store.

I listen to a lot of 'classical music', particularly baroque era, and from the late romantic era through to modern music, running from Mahler and Bruckner through Schoenberg to Ligeti and Shostakovich. I strongly value natural timbres, capturing the natural characteristics of harpsichords, oboes, recorders, etc, as well as decent imaging required for large scale orchestral works and dense chamber ensembles.

Similarly I listen to a lot of jazz, from early and scrappily recorded dates all the way up to very dense large scale collective improvisations. Same goes for electronic music, where I listen with as much pleasure to home made lo-fi jams, all the way to the super precise pointilism of Autechre. I enjoy a similar range in pop and rock forms, but veer more towards the experimental side of things than the traditional, precisely mixed audiophile fare.

For me, I have no issue hearing the roughness in a recording when there is roughness present. I'm as happy listening through some grot on an old Melodya recording as I am on a lovely ECM disc. I am hoping for a pair of headphones that are entirely honest, and will accurately reproduce whatever I put through them. I understand that this is one of the main points of praise with these headphones, but would value input from any fellow crate diggers that like music off the beaten path.

With this in mind, do you think the Neumann NDH 30 will serve me well? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Is there something that you don't like on the X2 and want to improve? Do you like its balance? Do you need full bass extension? Maybe describing your experience with that could help us propose something more successfully.

 

[thejewk]

Is there something that you don't like on the X2 and want to improve? Do you like its balance? Do you need full bass extension? Maybe describing your experience with that could help us propose something more successfully.

I find that the X2s are overall enjoyable to listen to, but I find the treble region problematic at times, and the peaks and troughs in the treble make them a little bit of a two headed monster, sounding somewhat dull and somewhat sharp at times. I also would very much prefer more bass extension, while overall enjoying the presentation of the bass, although they do get a little bloomy at times. Also, I find some of the instrumental timbres in the mids sometimes a little odd, but hard to describe.

The reason I landed on the NDH 30s as an option is because of the flat frequency, the bass extension, their reportedly natural presentation, and the fact that they seem to sit at at a good price to performance point. I certainly do not want to pay more than their price tag, this is my upper limit for the moment.

Does that help?

 

[headstef]

Well, it helps a lot. If you don't want to spend more, then the NDH 30 is "one-way ticket". It offers a general performance over the mean $ 1000 headphone performance, excellent low bass extension and control, top of the line resolution, and a very natural balance. Some hear a slight 4kHz peak as brightness, some don't - I don't). Certainly it is not bright at higher, more "dangerous" frequencies, instead it is smooth, informative and very life-like. Above all it is very communicative musically, it makes you want to listen more and more. Very well suited to classical music but then it is excellent with any genre of music. I find @Ichos' review one of the most accurate for this headphone, without any exaggerations in it. It is written for a big Greek magazine but I find Google translates it very successfully.
The HD 660S2 is also a fine choice and maybe it is a little more "safely" tuned. It has a slight, narrow dip at high mids/low treble where music can become fatiguing but is not designed to have the utmost resolution or accuracy. I listened to it briefly and though I prefer the Neumann, I find it is a fine addition in the HD-6## line.
Another important newcomer seems to be the very good looking iBasso SR3, at the same price level as the above two headphones. I see that Ichos is going to publish an analytical review in is site and then at Head-fi https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ibasso-sr3-—-150Ω-version-of-the-sr2.966541/page-11
He also told me at the Athens Headphone Show last Saturday that we "Neumann fan-boys" (lol) may be very surprised by its sound. If his excitement lasts for long then the SR3 should be at least as good as the NDH 30! A very hard task for any headphone under $ 1000. Time will tell...
In any case, you have excellent choices for $600, but if accuracy and top-tier fidelity is what you're after, then you may very well end with the NDH 30.

 

[erics75]

I have a few questions, if anyone would be so kind as to answer them. I've been using a pair of Fidelio X2s and some Fiio FH5 iems for a number of years now with pleasure, and I have been saving money with a view to buying a high quality set of open backs that will last for the foreseeable future. I want to buy once, with no view to further upgrades, and I want them to be sturdy. These headphones have caught my eye, and I am hoping to pick up a pair next month.

I listen to a very wide range of different types of music, and want to make sure I'm not making a faux pas by buying something expensive that will not be suitable. Unfortunately, I am disabled with quite restricted mobility, so I am not able to sample headphones in a store.

I listen to a lot of 'classical music', particularly baroque era, and from the late romantic era through to modern music, running from Mahler and Bruckner through Schoenberg to Ligeti and Shostakovich. I strongly value natural timbres, capturing the natural characteristics of harpsichords, oboes, recorders, etc, as well as decent imaging required for large scale orchestral works and dense chamber ensembles.

Similarly I listen to a lot of jazz, from early and scrappily recorded dates all the way up to very dense large scale collective improvisations. Same goes for electronic music, where I listen with as much pleasure to home made lo-fi jams, all the way to the super precise pointilism of Autechre. I enjoy a similar range in pop and rock forms, but veer more towards the experimental side of things than the traditional, precisely mixed audiophile fare.

For me, I have no issue hearing the roughness in a recording when there is roughness present. I'm as happy listening through some grot on an old Melodya recording as I am on a lovely ECM disc. I am hoping for a pair of headphones that are entirely honest, and will accurately reproduce whatever I put through them. I understand that this is one of the main points of praise with these headphones, but would value input from any fellow crate diggers that like music off the beaten path.

With this in mind, do you think the Neumann NDH 30 will serve me well? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Well let me start with I'm more of a metal/rock guy so I don't know your preferred genres well, though I love to dabble and experiment. Probably the closest I come to your listening is Jazz, it's become my new addiction. I had the X2 briefly but returned it. I didn't think it was a bad sounding headphone, but the treble on it was a bit too much for my tastes. At my desired volume it was just too shrill at times, making me either turn down the volume and enjoyment, or get headaches.

The NDH 30 is very different, not as colored. IMO it's leagues better than the X2, and one of my favorite headphones under $1K. The balance and honesty of it is what really attracts me. I tend to listen to more colored headphones (ZMF and dark Sennheisers), but at times I don't want the added warmth. I want to listen to the track in a more natural form, which the 30 does very well. It's also a very technically capable headphone, easily going toe to toe with my ZMFs on the resolution/staging front. From subbass to treble it's going to give you more presence and extension than the X2, but be of a much higher quality. Refinement comes to mind. The X2 can be a bit unrefined. The 30 exudes refinement. Nothing in it's response stands out in a negative way. The more I listen to it, the more I appreciate it.

That being said, if you prefer coloration, it may come across a bit lean. It won't add any warmth or thickness or sweetness to the notes. If the recording is thin and harsh, the 30 will be so. If the recording is warm and sweet sounding, so will the 30. It's very much a chameleon in it's ability to render a track without coloring it. The X2 has boosted bass IMO so it adds an omnipresent lift to all low/mid frequencies. Thin tracks sound fuller, weightier than they would on the 30. That can be a con if you prefer omnipresent coloration. What's odd is I normally do crave that, but still appreciate and love the 30. I find it incredibly enjoyable to listen to, despite the more neutral signature.

It's not a perfect headphone though. The proprietary cable is a bit of a pain. Great quality, but long and a bit stiffer than my ideal. I had an aftermarket cable made, but wish it used more universal connectors so I could recycle some of my other cables. Some have commented on the ear pads being cheap. I admit they seem a bit cheap, but so far I've had no durability issues, and LOVE how they feel. Very soft, like cotton balls. Lastly, the 30 is somewhat picky about ear/head placement. If you sit it too far forward/backward/high/low it can negatively affect the sound. Most of my headphones I just dump them on my head and go, without issue. The 30 requires me to sit it in one specific spot on my head, which I've now memorized via muscle memory. But shifting it at all changes the sound, and pretty noticeably. Not a big deal, but worth noting. Also, the cable plugs into the RIGHT cup. All other single entry sets go on the left, so keep that in mind. If you listen with the cable on the left you'll get terrible sound quality. I believe the drivers are offset, so placement is key.

Lastly, some alternatives if you're interested. Given you seem to want balance and natural/neutral sound, the venerable Sennheiser HD600 is a killer set. It won't match the 30 in any way on a technical level, but for me personally, it's every bit as enjoyable to listen to. It's smoother, softer, and easier to listen to poorly recorded music with it vs the 30's brutally honest approach. The HD650 adds more forward mids and more mid bass to the mix, but doesn't do anything better than the 600 on a technical level. It's just more colored. IMO the 650 is a good balance of fun and neutral. It's colored, but tastefully so. There's also the new HD660S2, which takes the 600/650, mashes them together tonally, and modernizes the technical aspects. It's going to be bassier and more colored than the 30, but not quite as resolving. I'm noticing a fine haze with it vs the 30. But the 600/650 has a much more noticeable haze to them. The S2 splits the difference between the 30 and 600/650, IMO. The 30 is crystal clear sounding vs all the Sennheisers. It's actually the clearest sounding headphone I own (and the least colored).

Lastly a note on amplification. The 30 isn't hard to drive at all. It's moderate impedance together with high sensitivity make it easy to drive. It's also quite sensitive to dac/amp changes. So if you want to add non-EQ (gear) coloration to it, you can do so easily. I love tube amps and NOS dacs, and run my 30 mostly on such. It adds a bit of sweetness to the 30 that's lacking on my solid state gear. Like I said earlier, i'm used to warmer sounding equipment, and though I appreciate the 30's neutrality, I don't want it dead neutral. Hence my use of tube amps to add a bit of warmth and body. And the 30 responds to it nicely. You don't have to go nuts either on the tube front. Even the affordable Vali 2+ sounds great with the 30.

 

[Mike F]

The reason I landed on the NDH 30s as an option is because of the flat frequency, the bass extension, their reportedly natural presentation, and the fact that they seem to sit at at a good price to performance point. I certainly do not want to pay more than their price tag, this is my upper limit for the moment.

Does that help?

Then get the NDH 30. Let us know what you think!