[louderup]

@louderup
What about details retrieval and timbral accuracy on the Neumann? Would you describe them as distant sounding, recessed or veiled in any way?

Timbral accuracy is bad for orchestral instruments, that's where I focused the most of my attention. Maybe you or others could find it pleasing, but if you want accuracy, you will not find it. The somewhat severe mid scoop kills any chance of that. Details were hard for me. I couldn't pick up things I normally do, like the sound of the attack and release of a compressor on the drums of a familiar rock track. This is either due to a lack of resolution, or the distance. I'm not quite sure what the cause was, but I don't really want to listen to these anymore to try to find out. With what you said about wanting things up front and personal, well that's where I feel the Elegia beats every other headphone I've ever tried. Tells you a lot about subjectivity and how we can perceive things in wildly different ways.

I'll be selling these on the used market most likely. I don't recommend them if you're going for accuracy, and I feel I'll have to warn people about that in my for-sale post. I'm really disappointed in Neumann/Sennheiser. I feel their marketing was utter b.s.

 

[FullBright1]

Timbral accuracy is bad for orchestral instruments, that's where I focused the most of my attention. Maybe you or others could find it pleasing, but if you want accuracy, you will not find it. The somewhat severe mid scoop kills any chance of that. Details were hard for me. I couldn't pick up things I normally do, like the sound of the attack and release of a compressor on the drums of a familiar rock track. This is either due to a lack of resolution, or the distance. I'm not quite sure what the cause was, but I don't really want to listen to these anymore to try to find out. With what you said about wanting things up front and personal, well that's where I feel the Elegia beats every other headphone I've ever tried. Tells you a lot about subjectivity and how we can perceive things in wildly different ways.

I'll be selling these on the used market most likely. I don't recommend them if you're going for accuracy, and I feel I'll have to warn people about that in my for-sale post. I'm really disappointed in Neumann/Sennheiser. I feel their marketing was utter b.s.

Next time, before you buy a set of headphones, you should read more carefully what i've written, or at least watch the video of the owner of the company as he explains a new product, if it should be a headphone.
After i read your first post, i realized that you bought these without any idea of what you were buying, as you did exactly the same thing with them after you got them, as you would have with any other headphone., you compared, compared, compared.
My Posts warned you and everyone not to do it, and indeed the entire stated purpose of this headphone is NOT for audiophile listening purposes, first and foremost, and that is why you bought them, so, that is your first mistake, and your second is comparing them to headphones that are not designed with the same purpose in mind, louderup.
You bought headphones that are DESIGNED for mixing music and mastering music. They are designed as replacement for "flat freq" monitors.
So, you sit there and can't understand why they "dont sound good, dont sound as good as treble etched Beyers", and the other 45 headphones you listed.
Well, they are never going to sound like those, and they are not designed to sound like consumer listening devices, which is what i told you, in many posts.
So, dont blame the headphones for not providing you with what they are not designed to provide, and this was never hidden from you.
Next time, read then buy.
Next time, find MY reviews, and read them, if its a headphone that you need, as i'll tell you what you need to know, exactly the same as i told you in this Thread.
You should have read what i wrote, or if you did, you should have paid attention as you were told by ME that these are not headphones that you buy strictly just to listen to music.
So, sell them to someone who understand this, preferably a musician and they will be happy and you will be relieved.
Should be pretty easy to do, as they are fine headphones, but they are a specific type of listening experience.

 

[FullBright1]

@louderup
I like a forward and closer presentation, so maybe the NDH 20 are not my cup of tea too. Also the accuracy/realism in reproducing acoustic instruments like violin, piano, cello, harpsichord, etc... is not OK on the Elegia imho. Make me think of peaks and dips in the FR, not sure, but they didn't impress me. Definitely not at that price.

What about details retrieval and timbral accuracy on the Neumann? Would you describe them as distant sounding, recessed or veiled in any way?

These sound nothing like the Elegia, so no worries there.
Also, keep in mind that these are created to be used as a supplement to a set of flat freq monitors, as their reason to exist.
So, they are quite flat<>neutral .
They will sound nothing like any headphone you have ever heard, as they are not designed to sound like consumer or pro-sumer headphone sound.
Their detail retrieval and timbral accuracy is not related to a "V" shape, and their soundstage is average and not recessed.
So, if your idea of discerning the sound of a new set of headphones is to compare them with your others, you will not like these, as they will sound nothing like any set you own, or any other set of headphones you will ever hear unless Neumann makes a v2 or something that is similar but costs a lot more money, which they will probably do, as these have been selling quite well for them.
They are a unique sound, quite flat, quite neutral, and do not provide sonic "excitement".

 

[UpTo11]

These sound nothing like the Elegia, so no worries there.
Also, keep in mind that these are created to be used as a supplement to a set of flat freq monitors, as their reason to exist.
So, they are quite flat<>neutral .
They will sound nothing like any headphone you have ever heard, as they are not designed to sound like consumer or pro-sumer headphone sound.
Their detail retrieval and timbral accuracy is not related to a "V" shape, and their soundstage is average and not recessed.
So, if your idea of discerning the sound of a new set of headphones is to compare them with your others, you will not like these, as they will sound nothing like any set you own, or any other set of headphones you will ever hear unless Neumann makes a v2 or something that is similar but costs a lot more money, which they will probably do, as these have been selling quite well for them.
They are a unique sound, quite flat, quite neutral, and do not provide sonic "excitement".

Thanks for your reply.
You make me think the NDH 20 is not what I'm looking for, especially considering their price.
I'm wondering what cans can give a bit more "sonic excitement", considering my sound preferences.... Beyerdynamic? Audio-Technica? Mackie?

 

[FullBright1]

Thanks for your reply.
You make me think the NDH 20 is not what I'm looking for, especially considering their price.
I'm wondering what cans can give a bit more "sonic excitement", considering my sound preferences.... Beyerdynamic? Audio-Technica? Mackie?

*warning....
this post is going to be a dull boring thorn in the side of any reader who prefers that i write only about charts, modifications, or only about the headphone that generated this Thread. So, if that is your need, just hit the scroll control and go to the next post...
-

I've purchased, own, etc.... over 200 sets of headphones.
I have not updated my bio list here in quite a while, or i'd have about 40-obo more sets to add to it.
Seen my bio here? ???? Its the work of a person who has a Youtube Channel, that has about 1050 videos on it, and i made over 400 of them. So, i'm deep into music, music making, and this creates me to be a little something different then most people here who are just into headphones or gear. I actually created a channel for people who are, like me, headphone addicts.
Who does this?
Just me.
so.....
Years of buying gears.
I do the same with guitars, cameras, basically anything i love to explore that is related to TECH, i will own a lot of it.
So, my method regarding performing this madness is to think of a headphone, each model, as a "voice"...... and in this way, i dont try to find the best, or try to compare them or rate them, as this only leads to frustration and never being able to enjoy each set.
See....when we are able to realize and think of headphone sound , each one, as "different", instead of "as compared to"....then we can begin to really find some happiness with what we buy because this is the best way to approach this game.
The best idea, when getting into whatever it is you obsess on, is to let each gear-product be itself, and enjoy it for what it does, and not compare it >against< what all others sound like as the final analysis, as doing this is the expensive way to always be unhappy with your stuff.
Others approach this in a different tho valid way, and that is to just modify until satisfied, and its all good as long as you are happy in the end, as if this is not happening, then what you are doing is paying for unhappiness, and is that a good idea?
No, so, you have to find a way to love what what you end up with once the payment is processed.
Like so many things in life.....its not the thing or the situation that is causing our unhappiness, its our perception of it. See, so often...."Misery, is our inner resistance to what IS"..... So, if we can learn to control our own minds, or as someone said.. "learn to see with new eyes", then we can find the good by looking for it instead of always only seeming to find what is wrong with everything, which is really just an issue with ourselves, more then likely.

If you read any of my posted mini reviews, or any i'll post in the future, i will never say a headphone sound's "bad", and this is because what i consider to be good sound, is my preference, and this does not mean its going to be yours, or anyones.
There are singers in the world.......Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran, Adele, Elton John, Dave Matthews, Jack Johnson, The Beatles, Freddie Mercury, Lady GaGa, Sarah Jarosz, or people who sing using an instrument like Chet Baker, or Bill Evans, or Yuja Wang, ......and each has a unique voice, and each of these voices has millions of fans, worldwide.
But not everyone is a fan of every voice that sings or plays on the Radio or on Cable Music Channels, and this is the same idea regarding each headphone model and their "voice".
For example there are many who love the HD800, and just as many that can't stand it......hate it.....yet its a very expensive headphone that sells and sells and keeps on selling, even tho Sennheiser modified it into the "S" v2.
1000 years after the HD600 was created, and after Planar mania and Eletrostatic this and dynamic driver that.....the HD600 is still there smiling, winning fans, and selling like gold coins, until forever.
Is it the best headphone sound?....No,... but it is a voice inside cups that works its magic on you, and so.......... thats a good voice.
Listen, anytime you are emotionally carried away by sound, then you should not be worrying about if the headphone has "more treble then" .......or is it a "mild V" .....or "does the 8kHz shout".
Many people try to make math out of listening, instead of just listening and getting lost in the joy of it.
"well, i can't keep these because they dont sound like".....
C'mon !
Stop !

So... as a person continues to become excited about some new gear and they pull the trigger $$$$$ and make the purchase..........the best way to enjoy this trip is to think of each new gear as a brand new journey into the world of a brand new voice, and let the joy of the journey be the joy.
My next journey will be on Tues , 4/9/2019, when i'll be opening a brand new set of Sendy Audio Alva's. (If im still breathing)... And will i like their sound?....Yes, and that is because im not going to compare them to all my other headphones. Im just going to smile as i unpack them, smile as i unbox them, smile as i unwrap the cables and glance at the case. Then i'll smile as i plug them into my Monoprice THX AAA, then continue to smile as i listen to all my usual "headphone test" CDs, just before i go to my UTUBE channel and listen more.
I will be euphoric, blissful, and completely immersed in JoyLand because something i wanted has arrived and i feel so fortunate to be able to experience, again, something that i love and love to do.
So, how can i, or why would i, ruin all that joy by worrying about if they dont sound like whatever else it is i own?
Not going to happen....
Then i'll smile as i take photos and write a mini review of them here, and some will like what i write and some will ignore it, and some will eventually buy them.
Its all good.

Not every person is going to like every headphone's sound, but, every person can allow each headphone's sound to be what it is, and appreciate it for itself, vs needing it to compete with the others.
The safety net is.......there is always someone who wants the set of headphones you dont love, so, buying headphones is, for the most part a reasonably safe obsession to support with your money.
Someone says...."well, they cost $600, and i sold them for $525".......... and i say.....well, you spent $75 for the experience of learning about them, becoming interested in them, buying, waiting, unboxing, listening, considering".......all this.
So, was that worth $75, or whatever it is that you will lose to sell them used?
I think it is, and if it isn't to you, then stop buying headphones, or learn to love all you buy which is accomplished by not driving yourself crazy by comparing them all until you are confused and frustrated and sad .

So, to your question.. UPTo11 :

Beyer headphones, to my ear, have a sibilant top end that i hate, and i generally find them to have a "cuppy" midrange.
Yuk.
Sennheiser headphones tend to have a more overall pleasant tone, and i prefer their open headphones.
If you are thinking of the Mackie's or the AKG 275s then buy the Cooler Master that i reviewed recently, as they are going to satisfy more ears.
I dont usually enjoy the sound of most HIFiMan headphones, as i find them too "treble energy" dominant, tho the X2s are interesting, and the Ananda's are also, but they fatigue me with their unique sound.
If you have $750 and want something amazing then get the Stax i just mini reviewed. They have an energetic sound, are incredibly immersive, are not comfortable to wear, but there is nothing that competes with what they provide as sound, unless its another Eletrostatic Set, as this type of sound is a must hear to understand it and appreciate it.
A used-affordable set of LCD-Xs, later version, without the case, is a good idea.
The HiFiman HE500s are going to please a lot of ears, and are usually selling used for a lot less then they should cost, actually.
But see, once again, all this is what i like, and until you hear them all, you are not going to know if YOU like them....no matter what headphone model it is you are craving to hear.
The actual experience is the final analysis, and the review is just the inspired invitation that leads you to the experience, or leads you away from it.

 

[UpTo11]

*warning....
this post is going to be a dull boring thorn in the side of any reader who prefers that i write only about charts, modifications, or only about the headphone that generated this Thread. So, if that is your need, just hit the scroll control and go to the next post...
-

I've purchased, own, etc.... over 200 sets of headphones.
I have not updated my bio list here in quite a while, or i'd have about 40-obo more sets to add to it.
Seen my bio here? ???? Its the work of a person who has a Youtube Channel, that has about 1050 videos on it, and i made over 400 of them. So, i'm deep into music, music making, and this creates me to be a little something different then most people here who are just into headphones or gear. I actually created a channel for people who are, like me, headphone addicts.
Who does this?
Just me.
so.....
Years of buying gears.
I do the same with guitars, cameras, basically anything i love to explore that is related to TECH, i will own a lot of it.
So, my method regarding performing this madness is to think of a headphone, each model, as a "voice"...... and in this way, i dont try to find the best, or try to compare them or rate them, as this only leads to frustration and never being able to enjoy each set.
See....when we are able to realize and think of headphone sound , each one, as "different", instead of "as compared to"....then we can begin to really find some happiness with what we buy because this is the best way to approach this game.
The best idea, when getting into whatever it is you obsess on, is to let each gear-product be itself, and enjoy it for what it does, and not compare it >against< what all others sound like as the final analysis, as doing this is the expensive way to always be unhappy with your stuff.
Others approach this in a different tho valid way, and that is to just modify until satisfied, and its all good as long as you are happy in the end, as if this is not happening, then what you are doing is paying for unhappiness, and is that a good idea?
No, so, you have to find a way to love what what you end up with once the payment is processed.
Like so many things in life.....its not the thing or the situation that is causing our unhappiness, its our perception of it. See, so often...."Misery, is our inner resistance to what IS"..... So, if we can learn to control our own minds, or as someone said.. "learn to see with new eyes", then we can find the good by looking for it instead of always only seeming to find what is wrong with everything, which is really just an issue with ourselves, more then likely.

If you read any of my posted mini reviews, or any i'll post in the future, i will never say a headphone sound's "bad", and this is because what i consider to be good sound, is my preference, and this does not mean its going to be yours, or anyones.
There are singers in the world.......Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran, Adele, Elton John, Dave Matthews, Jack Johnson, The Beatles, Freddie Mercury, Lady GaGa, Sarah Jarosz, or people who sing using an instrument like Chet Baker, or Bill Evans, or Yuja Wang, ......and each has a unique voice, and each of these voices has millions of fans, worldwide.
But not everyone is a fan of every voice that sings or plays on the Radio or on Cable Music Channels, and this is the same idea regarding each headphone model and their "voice".
For example there are many who love the HD800, and just as many that can't stand it......hate it.....yet its a very expensive headphone that sells and sells and keeps on selling, even tho Sennheiser modified it into the "S" v2.
1000 years after the HD600 was created, and after Planar mania and Eletrostatic this and dynamic driver that.....the HD600 is still there smiling, winning fans, and selling like gold coins, until forever.
Is it the best headphone sound?....No,... but it is a voice inside cups that works its magic on you, and so.......... thats a good voice.
Listen, anytime you are emotionally carried away by sound, then you should not be worrying about if the headphone has "more treble then" .......or is it a "mild V" .....or "does the 8kHz shout".
Many people try to make math out of listening, instead of just listening and getting lost in the joy of it.
"well, i can't keep these because they dont sound like".....
C'mon !
Stop !

So... as a person continues to become excited about some new gear and they pull the trigger $$$$$ and make the purchase..........the best way to enjoy this trip is to think of each new gear as a brand new journey into the world of a brand new voice, and let the joy of the journey be the joy.
My next journey will be on Tues , 4/9/2019, when i'll be opening a brand new set of Sendy Audio Alva's. (If im still breathing)... And will i like their sound?....Yes, and that is because im not going to compare them to all my other headphones. Im just going to smile as i unpack them, smile as i unbox them, smile as i unwrap the cables and glance at the case. Then i'll smile as i plug them into my Monoprice THX AAA, then continue to smile as i listen to all my usual "headphone test" CDs, just before i go to my UTUBE channel and listen more.
I will be euphoric, blissful, and completely immersed in JoyLand because something i wanted has arrived and i feel so fortunate to be able to experience, again, something that i love and love to do.
So, how can i, or why would i, ruin all that joy by worrying about if they dont sound like whatever else it is i own?
Not going to happen....
Then i'll smile as i take photos and write a mini review of them here, and some will like what i write and some will ignore it, and some will eventually buy them.
Its all good.

Not every person is going to like every headphone's sound, but, every person can allow each headphone's sound to be what it is, and appreciate it for itself, vs needing it to compete with the others.
The safety net is.......there is always someone who wants the set of headphones you dont love, so, buying headphones is, for the most part a reasonably safe obsession to support with your money.
Someone says...."well, they cost $600, and i sold them for $525".......... and i say.....well, you spent $75 for the experience of learning about them, becoming interested in them, buying, waiting, unboxing, listening, considering".......all this.
So, was that worth $75, or whatever it is that you will lose to sell them used?
I think it is, and if it isn't to you, then stop buying headphones, or learn to love all you buy which is accomplished by not driving yourself crazy by comparing them all until you are confused and frustrated and sad .

So, to your question.. UPTo11 :

Beyer headphones, to my ear, have a sibilant top end that i hate, and i generally find them to have a "cuppy" midrange.
Yuk.
Sennheiser headphones tend to have a more overall pleasant tone, and i prefer their open headphones.
If you are thinking of the Mackie's or the AKG 275s then buy the Cooler Master that i reviewed recently, as they are going to satisfy more ears.
I dont usually enjoy the sound of most HIFiMan headphones, as i find them too "treble energy" dominant, tho the X2s are interesting, and the Ananda's are also, but they fatigue me with their unique sound.
If you have $750 and want something amazing then get the Stax i just mini reviewed. They have an energetic sound, are incredibly immersive, are not comfortable to wear, but there is nothing that competes with what they provide as sound, unless its another Eletrostatic Set, as this type of sound is a must hear to understand it and appreciate it.
A used-affordable set of LCD-Xs, later version, without the case, is a good idea.
The HiFiman HE500s are going to please a lot of ears, and are usually selling used for a lot less then they should cost, actually.
But see, once again, all this is what i like, and until you hear them all, you are not going to know if YOU like them....no matter what headphone model it is you are craving to hear.
The actual experience is the final analysis, and the review is just the inspired invitation that leads you to the experience, or leads you away from it.

Oh wow! Thanks!
Just to be clear, now I'm using the 1more triple driver over ear. But I'd like something just a bit less on the consumer side sonically and more (more!) comfortable.
Regarding the Cooler Master, does the 7.1 suff mean they use some kind of DSP?

 

[louderup]

Next time, find MY reviews, and read them, if its a headphone that you need, as i'll tell you what you need to know, exactly the same as i told you in this Thread.
You should have read what i wrote, or if you did, you should have paid attention as you were told by ME...

JFC get over yourself. Your advice has nowhere near the value you think it does. You don't even read. Everything I've talked about with regards to the NDH 20s has been in the context of mixing music. It's what I do for a living and what I've done for 15 years.

Nearly every person who doesn't like these headphones ends up getting accused by you of some b.s. like 'not using them correctly.' It's always our fault, not the headphones' fault, huh?

You write and sound like a broken record spewing snake-oil defenses. Stop talking down to people and deifying yourself, it's really obnoxious.

 

[Enn Jott]

*grabs popcorn*

 

[FullBright1]

Oh wow! Thanks!
Just to be clear, now I'm using the 1more triple driver over ear. But I'd like something just a bit less on the consumer side sonically and more (more!) comfortable.
Regarding the Cooler Master, does the 7.1 suff mean they use some kind of DSP?

The 1 more Triple Driver is an interesting set of headphones.
lots of treble, lots of clarity, deep sound.
And the CMaster can offer you 7.1, as its a gaming headphone, but you have to activate it.
So, no worries, just strap them on, listen to music.....they really are quite a good sounding gear, and the cost would make most people think they are a toy.
They are not.
They are a low low low budget very nice sound, and so comfortable.
No doubt someone will buy them, come here, and compare them to $500 - $2500 Closed headphones, and when that happens, just smile as this type of mania is just so colorful to behold.

You know, sometimes people get lost in this idea........ '"More money = has to be better...........A TON of money = has to be the best.""
But, is this always true?
It should be....but is it?

 

[FullBright1]

JFC get over yourself. Your advice has nowhere near the value you think it does. You don't even read. Everything I've talked about with regards to the NDH 20s has been in the context of mixing music. It's what I do for a living and what I've done for 15 years.

Nearly every person who doesn't like these headphones ends up getting accused by you of some b.s. like 'not using them correctly.' It's always our fault, not the headphones' fault, huh?

You write and sound like a broken record spewing snake-oil defenses. Stop talking down to people and deifying yourself, it's really obnoxious.

Actually, what you just wrote is more or less, your interesting imagination at work.
So, let me now clarify for you, some reality., louderup.
First of all, in the 2 posts that i read where you only attacked the Neumanns, all you talked about is " as compared to".....
So, what,....... you listed about 789 headphones you compared them too...
So, thats your first fail....
And 2nd, as you are, i think, the only person who has freaked out regarding them on this Forum, and certainly you are the only one that is just ripping them with negativity, which is your right as you paid for the right to speak your mind....
Yet, to say im here correcting people who dont love them, is of course your self delusion, as ive not actually had an opportunity to do that, as only you have needed to vent your extreme disappointment as if anyone cares to read it.
See, dear, i dont defend the headphones, i just maintain in your case that as you never actually understood their purpose, then this explains why all your ranting is so misguided and in fact, ridiculous.
Next time, read my review, or read someones, or try watching the video if the creator of the headphone made one, as had you done any of this, you won't be doing such a backflip up a wall regarding the next set you purchase, that you hate.
Now, come back when you can and tell me all about how you watched the video, and read thousands of reviews, including mine that told you that these are FLAT FLAT FLAT and if you try to judge them against other headphones, you wont like them.
You are a classic..
Maybe what you should do, is just accept that not every headphone is going to please everyone.
And this happens to all of us, and what we do is sell them or accept what they do and keep them.
I recently paid a bit more for my Ananda's then you are "out" regarding your Newmann's, and i can't use them for more then 5 mins without incredible fatigue.
So, headphone buying is not an exact science, and what we need to do is just roll with the disappointment when this happens, and get the next set, hoping for a better result.
The Newuman's dont satisfy your ears well, and the Ananda's will never work for me as i had hoped.
LIfe goes on.
"next".


best,

fb1

 

[FullBright1]

*grabs popcorn*

-
ummmmmmm.

-

 

[PaganDL]

Hi @FullBright1,

Honestly, I've said this before & will certainly say it many times in the future.

You are amazingly awesome & as always, agree with all your very valid points, also saves me from stepping in to have potential arguements with others too.

As we know, some just can't help themselves with their own opinions just because or actually read what others post for that matter...

On a final note, as proved many times before, by you, myself & some others have stated, comparisons don't mean much & while BIAS is thing in its various forms, enjoying or more accurately, listening in the moment is what's important.

I really enjoy my Neumann NDH 20 & it's going to stay that way for a long time.

Anyway, always enjoy your insights !

Keep up the good work !

Hope you have a great day !

 

[FullBright1]

Hi @FullBright1,

Honestly, I've said this before & will certainly say it many times in the future.

You are amazingly awesome & as always, agree with all your very valid points, also saves me from stepping in to have potential arguements with others too.

As we know, some just can't help themselves with their own opinions just because or actually read what others post for that matter...

On a final note, as proved many times before, by you, myself & some others have stated, comparisons don't mean much & while BIAS is thing in its various forms, enjoying or more accurately, listening in the moment is what's important.

I really enjoy my Neumann NDH 20 & it's going to stay that way for a long time.

Anyway, always enjoy your insights !

Keep up the good work !

Hope you have a great day !

-

Nice to hear from you again, PaganDL, and thank you for the kind words........

 

[Enn Jott]

Haha get a room you two

That being said: More opinions on the NDH20?

I just got the Adam Audio Studio Pro SP-5s and they are everything i thought the Neumanns would be ...

 

[FullBright1]

I just got the Adam Audio Studio Pro SP-5s and they are everything i thought the Neumanns would be ...

Those are very decent headphones, tho a little bright/aggressive.
The Cooler Master MH752s are better.......more comfy and sound more natural, warmer, better overall honest fidelity.
Cost less, also.
Try them sometime.