[tomscy2000]

So I've realized that due to my ear opening, I don't do so well with wide/shallow nozzle canalphones and much prefer the fit of narrow/deep insertion nozzle IEMs a la Etymotic, Westone, Klipsch, etc.
 
However, it seems that most manufacturers spanning the entire price spectrum tend to prefer making IEMs with wide/shallow nozzles. Is there a reason, sonically, for that preference or is it purely an economical choice?
 
Also, what other makers make their nozzles narrow like the ones I've listed?

 

[maximon]

Good question, I was wondering that myself too..

 

[Anaxilus]

Dynamic drivers are wider and shallower because the driver is bigger and requires more air and space to produce sound.  Balanced armatures are tiny thus have thin nozzles.  Ety is the only company I know that makes a narrow nozzle dynamic but that is because of keeping costs low and inline w/ their current production of tips and filters.  A company picks the driver type they want based on desired sound and price then designs the housing and nozzle around it.  

 

[tomscy2000]

Hmm, that seems to make sense, and the etymotic mc5 argument could be used with the Klipsch S4, but why would UE use wide nozzles when they began their universal line with BA-based earphones? Curiouser and curiouser...
 
IMO from a marketing standpoint, it would actually be advantageous for manufacturers to vary their nozzle sizes based on price range, e.g. one size for consumer, and one size for premium/professional, so that there's brand loyalty when it comes to buying eartips. Now, if that happened, Head-fiers would surely come out in arms with protest, but for the marketer, product partitioning is a good thing, and we see that happening in all manner of products outside the audio world, like cameras and the like. These products all follow a similar consumer-oriented business model.
 
Honestly, I asked this because Klipsch nozzle heads have to be some of the smallest terminations I've seen on IEMs, smaller than even ety and Westones; ostensibly it doesn't make sense for them to squeeze all that closed air from a 9mm dynamic driver through a 2mm opening. Now, I'm no audio engineer, but wouldn't there need to be significant waveform shaping (attenuation, perhaps?) so that the waves don't reflect everywhere and cause some destructive interfering havoc within the acoustic chamber? Would major brands like etymotic and Klipsch just decide to shove their small nozzles onto their lower-end products just for legacy eartips' sake?
 
Not trying to raise hell here, just trying to get to the bottom of it...

 

[Anaxilus]

UE has been doing both dynamics and BAs for some time.  They even had a dual dynamic and BA hybrid IEM.  
 
Accounting takes precedence over performance 99% of the time.  A corporation only cares about improving performance to the degree they can improve profits.  The product demographic must find its place among the various costs and supply/demand curves and at the right point.  Don't forget the costs associated w/ complicating logistics w/ an abundance of tips versus driver tuning.  Also, for each new tip you need various sizes as well that go mostly unused.  The MC5 is a good example.  Myself and others feel they sound better w/ larger apertures like Sensorcoms.  Does it make sense for Etymotic to develop or purchase completely new tips for an IEM that sells for $69 based on the needs of that product demographic?  No.  The targeted user of the MC5 is not a Head Fier w/ 20 sets of tips at home to try out.  They wont know the difference.  All they care about is whether their purchase sounds better than the stock Zune or iPod IEMs they came with.   

 

[stevenswall]

It's OK, Etymotic will do the audio engineering for you... Klipch has yet to release a tuning diagram of their S4, but untill they do, the Mc5 is the only small nozzle dynamic IEM I know of with acoustic tuning.
 
Quote:

"...Now, I'm no audio engineer, but wouldn't there need to be significant waveform shaping (attenuation, perhaps?) so that the waves don't reflect everywhere and cause some destructive interfering havoc within the acoustic chamber?.."
 

 

[deadguy99]

Another dynamic with skinny nozzle is the Atrio's ... very highly regarded back when they came out but hardly mentioned anymore due to age

still an amazing driver tho and gives phones like ie8s a run for there money for less than half the price. i use comply t100's with mine but used to use olives until they started irritating my ears

 
I don't understand how someone can say dynamics "need" the larger nozzle for air flow cause it makes me laugh how much bass atrio's have with the skinny nozzle to the point where it hurts my ears if i put them loud enough.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Another dynamic with skinny nozzle is the Atrio's ... very highly regarded back when they came out but hardly mentioned anymore due to age

still an amazing driver tho and gives phones like ie8s a run for there money for less than half the price. i use comply t100's with mine but used to use olives until they started irritating my ears

 
I don't understand how someone can say dynamics "need" the larger nozzle for air flow cause it makes me laugh how much bass atrio's have with the skinny nozzle to the point where it hurts my ears if i put them loud enough.

While thats true, the reviews seem to support the Atrios aren't getting the most out of their treble either since thats a widely reported criticism.  I also personally prefer the ER4 treble and clarity to the MC5 myself.  It just seems logical to me that sound shaping is easier for a dynamic driver when you have fewer potential restrictions.  Regardless, the Atrio and MC5 are the exceptions and far from the rule.  i also don't know is the Atrios have a port or vent somewhere.  Their dynamic customs do.