[xxxfbsxxx]

   
I already have a very good customized C.A.P.S. (I spent $2000 on it). I also tried other DAC like Auralic Vega, Ayre QB-9, Mytek Manhattan, Invicta Mirus, Weiss DAC202 all of them are better than M51 but for me I don't think it worth to pay $3000, $5000 or $7000 for that gap. 
 
So I think I'll get a converter and waiting for DAC that really wows me. 

then get the audio-gd di2014, nad+di combo could probably blow all of your listed dac above 
and its quite cheap compared to other coverter so if you dont like it you can always sell it with very small lost but i doubt you will once you heard this combo )

 

[Danny86]

 
Why would a streamer blow away a PC? I'll bet in blind listening tests nobody could tell them apart.

Because streamer is optimized for one thing only, while PC is a not really optimized for audio.
PC optimization is super expensive.
 
DAC + streamer is always superior due to the end-to-end sound integration from the manufacturer (Naim 172 XS, Marantz NA-11 S1, etc.). While on paper they are more expensive, when you count all the software, hardware and connection cost they are cheaper vs DAC + PC. 
 
For instance, the Hegel H160 integrated DAC, streamer and AMP made me sell my NAD m51 + Yellowtec Puc 2 Lite + PC with Totaldac D1 USB, Jplay dual pc etc ($$$$$) for the superior sound. 
 
I would not like to comment on the blind tests part, there is a non-blind comparison here: http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=253

 

[BleaK]

Got the NAD M51 yesterday. Just usb (without power line) out of a PC it sounds really great. Some thoughts:
 
Bass: Strong and goes deep, yet not overwhelming the overall sound.
 
Mids: Detailed and lifelike. Slight "soft" sound, not any harshness.
 
Treble: Continuing the non-harness. Extended and present, yet not fatiguing. 
 
Imaging and soundstage: The strongest point of this dac I feel. Details pops out on black background and the it throws a very nice, layered and large soundstage. 
 
 
Will continue to listen, but so far this DAC really impressed me. 
 
 
 
Small addendum:
 
After some listening and testing with speakers, monitors and headphones, I think this DAC has some kind of synergy with HD800. It might be to early to tell, yet however I feel like the non-harsness pairs really well with the Sennheisers. When listening to not-perfect recordings it somehow takes off the "edge" you might experience with the HD800, while keeping most of the details.
 
This is just some thoughts after two days of listening. More may come. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Because streamer is optimized for one thing only, while PC is a not really optimized for audio.
PC optimization is super expensive.
 
DAC + streamer is always superior due to the end-to-end sound integration from the manufacturer (Naim 172 XS, Marantz NA-11 S1, etc.). While on paper they are more expensive, when you count all the software, hardware and connection cost they are cheaper vs DAC + PC. 
 
For instance, the Hegel H160 integrated DAC, streamer and AMP made me sell my NAD m51 + Yellowtec Puc 2 Lite + PC with Totaldac D1 USB, Jplay dual pc etc ($$$$$) for the superior sound. 
 
I would not like to comment on the blind tests part, there is a non-blind comparison here: http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=253

Sorry Danny86, with all due respect the notion that a streamer sounds better really doesn't seem to have any technical merit, that strikes me essentially as a subjective opinion, which is fine of course, but you do need to be aware that making such a strong claim with zero evidence isn't really a useful exercise. I can't imagine for the life of me why even a basic PC can't sound every bit as good as a dedicated streamer. All of this electrical noise etc really has never been demonstrated scientifically to be audible anyway. Just because a machine can measure a difference, doesn't mean that our brain will be able to detect the difference.
 
Sighted listening tests are fine, but they are not evidence per say. That doesn't mean they can't be correct, it just means we can't have any confidence that they are correct. I'm not saying there is no chance a streamer is better, just that I have not seen any evidence that demonstrates that a streamer is better.

 

[Danny86]

 
Sorry Danny86, with all due respect the notion that a streamer sounds better really doesn't seem to have any technical merit, that strikes me essentially as a subjective opinion, which is fine of course, but you do need to be aware that making such a strong claim with zero evidence isn't really a useful exercise. I can't imagine for the life of me why even a basic PC can't sound every bit as good as a dedicated streamer. All of this electrical noise etc really has never been demonstrated scientifically to be audible anyway. Just because a machine can measure a difference, doesn't mean that our brain will be able to detect the difference.
 
Sighted listening tests are fine, but they are not evidence per say. That doesn't mean they can't be correct, it just means we can't have any confidence that they are correct. I'm not saying there is no chance a streamer is better, just that I have not seen any evidence that demonstrates that a streamer is better.

Well we would agree to disagree. The main difference is that I listened to both while you are simply speculating. 
I am trying to pass on my knowledge to the community and you are dismissing my experience based on your assumptions. 
 
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with users spending thousands on USB cables, USB converters and Linear Power Sources and software if this is what they desire. After all, I went through the same exercise and saw PC sound improve.
 
With that being said, I don't think that speculative phrases dismissing statements collected from personal experience is something that helps the community grow their knowledge on the matter.  

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Well we would agree to disagree. The main difference is that I listened to both while you are simply speculating. 
I am trying to pass on my knowledge to the community and you are dismissing my experience based on your assumptions. 
 
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with users spending thousands on USB cables, USB converters and Linear Power Sources and software if this is what they desire. After all, I went through the same exercise and saw PC sound improve.
 
With that being said, I don't think that speculative phrases dismissing statements collected from personal experience is something that helps the community grow their knowledge on the matter.  

Actually what I'm doing does help the community. If people make really bold claims like a music streamer kills a PC in sound quality they need to tell us why that would be the case. You may not like it or agree, but in the world of science, a sighted listening test is no proof at all. If you really want to prove this claim to be true you need to set-up blind listening, multiple trials and see if your views are correct. Personally I doubt they will be, but as I haven't done the testing I can't say you are incorrect, but you can't make claims like that either.
 
Now had you said personally I think my music streamer sounds better than the computer based systems I have heard nobody would care, but you didn't put any reasonable limitations on your claim you said streamers are better period. I'm sorry if you feel like you're being attacked, but contrary to what you said, this is exactly the type of claim that needs to be challenged openly and respectfully here in the forums.

 

[vc1187]

You two are essentially disagreeing over each other's definition of "better", which in itself is a purely subjective word anyway... Hence not worth arguing over.

Here on head-fi, we hear a bunch of different things that we categorize as 'better'. For example, I think the M51 sounds better than the Schiit Gungnir, but others may disagree. Scientific reasoning or not, the opinion stands and will likely not change because someone else tells me it's not better.

Another example, some people prefer a more accurate reproduction of audio while some prefer a less accurate, colored reproduction that is seemingly more easy on their ears. Telling someone that something is better because of ones personal preference is strictly based on that individual's opinion.

We choose to believe or be skeptical about what we want, so just let head-fi be head-fi. In the end, your ears are the only absolute truth anyway.

 

[wink]

Instead of arguing here, they could be listening to some cool jazz......    

 

[Sonic Defender]

That isn't arguing, to me that is exchanging perspectives respectfully.

 

[wink]

I never argue, I just debate heatedly and emotionally .....      

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I never argue, I just debate heatedly and emotionally .....      

I'm down with that brother!

 

[olor1n]

  I've just upgraded my firmware from 1.39 to 1.50. I haven't heard anything that makes me regret the upgrade. It sounds much the same tbh.
 

 
Anyone know where I can get firmware 1.39?
 
Been listening to 1.50 for about a week now and of late have had the nagging feeling that bass presence and slam is somewhat curtailed in this firmware version. I am aware of NAD's claim (as mentioned in stereophile's update) that firmware post 1.39 merely adjusts output by -1dB, and that there is no tweak to the signature. If that were the case, the bass slam that I seem to be missing should be reintroduced by simply adjusting the M51's volume. That is not the case. What I'm hearing with 1.50 is perhaps a more even presentation across the spectrum but I preferred the dynamics and energy of 1.39.

 

[olor1n]

Reverted from 1.50 back to 1.39.
 
Yeah, this is the M51 I know and love.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Reverted from 1.50 back to 1.39.
 
Yeah, this is the M51 I know and love.

Man you're lucky. I thought there were a few who went back and had that scramble the M51 up bad. I never heard 1.39 as I started at 1.41 before going to 1.50. Personally I certainly couldn't hear a difference between those firmware revisions. I'm assuming a great deal of the revisions is to solve smaller niche problems that arise as NAD gathers users feedback more than sound quality, but certainly I don't know for sure.

 

[ellevoid]

  Reverted from 1.50 back to 1.39.
 
Yeah, this is the M51 I know and love.

 
Hello olor1n,
 
How did you revert it? Did you revert from 1.50 directly to 1.39 or 1.50 > 1.43 > 1.41 > 1.39?
 
Thanks