[K_19]

Hi Everyone,
 
For the sake of not derailing the Woo Audio Appreciation thread that this was originally in, I'd like to move everything over here (if mods can move the relevant posts from that topic that would be great).  Here is my original post:
 
"... I'm absolutely devastated right now.  damn.  The WA6SE amp, which I was anticipating so much for the last two weeks or so, arrived at my house battered and broken. 

    My most expensive Head-fi transaction ever went terribly wrong...
 
The unit arrived with the box totally mangled, and apparently opened for earlier inspection probably at the customs.  The tubes insides were COMPLETELY shattered, with some of the glass shards going into the insides.  The unit itself was riddled with scratches and dents, and the volume knob came loose free from the unit itself (as well as one of the feets attached to the bottom).  I immediately opened the units to clean it free of glass shards, hoping that the Woo being a robust unit that it is, would at least work (I still had the tubes I'm using for my WA6).  Unfortunately this wasn't the case; It powered on and sparked my Sophia rectifier, gave a nasty tube hum, and had ZERO volume in the right channel, for whatever reason.  I opened the unit and saw the insides which looked completely fine (didn't see any loose wires or anything), but obviously I'm not electronic technician so I have no idea what is wrong here...  Was completely heartbroken at this point.  To add insult to the injury, the total duty fees I paid for it was $140.
 
I've contacted the seller to see what he can do about the this problem, so I won't go into it further or blame anyone just yet, but just needed to vent here.    Ugh.  This is like a horrible nightmare coming true.
 

    "
 
 
"I don't want to expand on the issue TOO much just yet on behalf of the seller (I'm seeing what he can do about this first), but I do feel that everyone should know about this, so...
 
- No, it was NOT packed in Jack's original packing materials.  I do understand that the seller may have disposed of it though, not necessarily his fault.  
- I did feel that it was somewhat inadequately packaged.  The seller only used bubble wraps and newspapers around the amp, and just the paper boxes for the tubes.  No stryrofoam, which would have REALLY been nice as added protection.
- Everyone, please remember when shipping delicate products with sensitive electronic components and glass, that the package be marked as "FRAGILE".  From what I've seen on the box the seller failed to do this.
 
In all, I do believe that either USPS or Canada Post was responsible for pretty much all of this.  They probably threw and tossed the box all over the place (the amp literally looks like it's been through an explosion of some sort...).  Inexcusable really.  But I did feel that the amp could have been packaged better on the seller's end.  Hopefully he'll learn from this experience as well as the every future sellers that may be reading this...
 
I'm pretty much at a loss of what to do now.  I've taken pictures and will upload it (I don't really want to disgrace this appreciation thread with pics of the Woo that looks like it's been through a nuclear blast, so I'll refrain from posting it here) then send it to the seller and wait and see what he can do.  Apparently there's nothing I can do on my end as a buyer for the insurance claim process (it's all up to the seller to do this), but the seller DID insure about $650 on it which will hopefully recoup SOME amount of our transaction.   Basically, everyone's a loser here and I feel bad for the seller also.  I suppose this is a lesson learned in online transactions and shipping on both of our ends, and harsh and costly one at that.  
 
Still shocked.  I'll get over it soon hopefully.  I may buy it new from Jack (if I do, I'll surely buy directly from him) or maybe I'll try another amp, I dunno, it's far from my concern now... nonetheless, thanks for the condolences everyone.  I really appreciate it."
 
 
"I've taken the pics and am in the process of sending it to the seller.  I really do wish that I had a better camera, and have better skills in taking pics, but doing what I can.
 
It's all up to him afterwards.  As I've said apparently there is nothing I can do as a buyer in insurance claims, it's upto the seller to make the claim and go about it.  Of course, I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to help him in the process."
 
Here are couple pics I've taken (I can take more... it really doesn't cover the extent of the full damage)
 
 

 
 
 
So, I emailed and PM'ed the seller (who will go nameless for now to give him a chance to straighten this out) last night and I am waiting for his response and I haven't heard back much yet.  I do realize he may have other commitments and may not have checked his email or head fi... how long should I wait for response before I get REALLY worried about it?  3-4 days?  A week or two?
 
Also, the debate was going on about who's to bear the financial responsibility of this.  I've offered the seller to split up the costs and be done with it, and learn from both of our mistakes (I'm the type that really just prefers to avoid headaches if possible, compromise within all reason and move on with life).  I do think that the seller inadequately packaged the item, but either USPS/Canada Post or Canadian Customs obviously handled this VERY roughly at some point... so I'm not sure if he should take all the blame for this.  However, many people in the original thread don't think so.  Your honest opinions would be appreciated.
 
I'll update as this (hopefully) makes progress.

 

[midoo1990]

if the packaging was with bubble wrap and newspapers as you said,then he should take all the blame.
wait 3-4 days for his response.
EDIT:he deffintly needs to pay all the costs for repair or refund you back,he should have shipped it with jack's secure packaging.

 

[ddrddrddrddr]

First of all, let me just say hiding the seller's name is pretty futile, because it's pretty easily traceable. If you really want to protect him, you probably shouldn't mention him, just saying.
 
If you used paypal, I do believe you are able to file this as a dispute since your item received was "not as described". Either way you will likely be able to recoup at most the cost of the amp and not the shipping and customs, and possibly also shipping of the the broken amp back.
 
As far as how long to wait, it appears there hasn't been any activity from him for the past week so it may be that he's on an actual hiatus. Proceed accordingly.

 

[atbglenn]

WOW, Your amp really took a beating! Totally unacceptable! I personally would file a claim with paypal if that's how you paid for it. From what I can see, it's the sellers fault due to inadequate packing.  

 

[ddrddrddrddr]

The issue with doing this by Paypal is that they will likely require you to ship this back. You'll be paying for that. You may want to try out-of-court settlement first. It's a pity that someone's going to have to take a hit for this, one moment's negligence causes catastroph.... wait, I'm thinking BP.
 
From paypal help:
Check the date! All claims must be filed within 45 days of the transaction or the claim will be denied
You can afford to wait a while and calm down, if you're able.

 

[redshifter]

That cardboard box shows signs of being used before to ship something else (ripped off labels, crossed out names). I know from moving that normal boxes can get used once and tend to fall apart after. Ever put something in a worn out cardboard box then try to lift it? The box collapses on itself usually squirting the item out the bottom.

 

[pez]

Wow that looks terrible...yeah...for something that fragile, they should have packed it better.  USPS even asks you if you have anything fragile (I'm sure they do this in Canada, too)...obviously this wasn't done.

 

[beerguy0]

I once saw a guy in a UPS office with a box in pretty much that condition, and actually wanting to ship it. Each time he moved the box (pushing it along the floor with his foot), there were rattles and clinking sounds. When he got to the counter, the conversation went something like this:
 
UPS: What's in the box?
Customer: Electronic components.
UPS: Value?
Customer: $6,000
UPS: We can't ship that in that condition.
 
Guy left with his box.

 

[K_19]

It's been about two weeks since I've made the payment to him (13 days), so for a claim I do see that I have some room to wait a bit.  What does worry me is that there hasn't been any activity from him over the past week, as ddrddrddrddr said... perhaps he's on a vacation or something (I do recall something about that with some of his threads), but I've also sent him an email to his paypal address and believe that he should receive that at some point even if he's out and about.  I'd hope so.  I think I'll give it another 3 days or so as recommended before I proceed with any possible dispute procedures (and I am SO glad that I always make the payment for "goods" instead of "gifts" as some people do... that would have really screwed me over).
Quote:

First of all, let me just say hiding the seller's name is pretty futile, because it's pretty easily traceable. If you really want to protect him, you probably shouldn't mention him, just saying.

That is true. 

   I guess it was unavoidable from the moment I started the original post (which happened in a fit of anger and disappointment).  Hopefully not too many people would bother tracing that here, and even if they do, I hope they realize that I'm giving him a chance to straighten this out...
 

 

[Drag0n]

It looks like everything was loose in the box and able to flop around.
It also looks like the postal services played soccer/football with it.  

 
The sender and postal services and customs should split the bill. 

Please remind me to love people. 

 

[hodgjy]

Not to make a bad situation worse, but even if the seller did buy shipper's insurance, there's about a 0% chance the parcel company will pay for damages.  In my opinion, shipping insurance is a scam.
 
1) The parcel company will gladly take your money to pay for "insurance"
 
However, in order to get a payout, you need to:
 
2) Have them pack it and inspect it
3) You cannot use your own shipping material (especially used material).
 
It's a scam.  They knowingly take your shipping money even if they know they have no legal bounds to pay off a claim.  And this raises another sore spot with me.  Why do we have to pay insurance for them to do their job properly?  You don't pay a restaurant insurance to insure that your meal is hot, clean, and has the right portions?
 
So, it looks like the only way to recover your money is:
 
1) Have the seller pay you back the complete money and you return the amp
2) Have the seller pay all repair costs, including repairs to cosmetics to get the unit back to specs
3) File a claim with your financial institution, whether paypal or credit card
 
Good luck.  This sucks and I feel for you.  I received a few smashed packages in the past, and the parcel company basically told me, "Too bad."  The shipping company leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 

 

[K_19]

I've sent in a dispute request with Paypal (right away, just as paypal and many of you recommend), though obviously I'm not going to have it escalate to actual claim process yet.  I'm hoping for a response from the seller soon...

 

[nikongod]

this thread?
What kind of individual deletes the whole FS post before the item is even delivered? I hope you saved it.

 

[mikemalter]

After thinking a bit about your photos, it seems to me that not all of the damage occurred in shipping. 
 
From my perspective, it looks like the amp was abused before shipping.  If you look at some of the wear patterns on the edges, there is no way they could have occurred in a box with limited movement.
 
How well do you know the person who sold the amp to you?  What is his reputation?  Do you know of anyone he has sold equipment to before?
 
This is really too bad, I'm very sorry for you.  I hope it works out well for you.
 

 

[K_19]

Quote:

this thread?
What kind of individual deletes the whole FS post before the item is even delivered? I hope you saved it.

Nope, that's not the poster.  I bought a WA6SE and not a standard WA6 (which I already have and was looking to upgrade on).

 
Quote:

After thinking a bit about your photos, it seems to me that not all of the damage occurred in shipping. 
 
From my perspective, it looks like the amp was abused before shipping.  If you look at some of the wear patterns on the edges, there is no way they could have occurred in a box with limited movement.
 
How well do you know the person who sold the amp to you?  What is his reputation?  Do you know of anyone he has sold equipment to before?
 
This is really too bad, I'm very sorry for you.  I hope it works out well for you.
 

 
I've seen the person active in the forums and sometimes in the Woo threads, and his feedback here is perfect both as a seller and a buyer (about a 50/50 split).  Can't say I know him personally aside from this sale however.