[Elephas]

I offer to perform my supersecret process on any and all HF-1s.
Just send me your pair of HF-1. I might even send it back to you, eventually.

 

[sheeno]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn Saying "Shut your face" is not stupid. I found it to be most informative, and a great post. In fact, it inspired me to be more patriotic about the forums! All joking aside, we should all just take a chill pill and not get pissed by the trolls. Instead I'll listen to "Leave Me Alone" by New Order...*cues it up!*

You know, most companies pay thousands of dollars to have customer feedback studies done and to have their products pre-tested in beta form and whatnot. Here we are trying to give some free advice about problems we encounter and things we would like to see come to fruition and you call us trolls. Obviously calling someone delusional is over the top and I don't respect that, but so is defending a product to the death. Maybe instead of saying it's all about the sound, you could concede some ground and say, "yea, he could do the mold injections more professionally, maybe that's something he should look at."

If you bought a car and there were scratches over everything, you open the hood and things are held together by sloppy workmanship, would you be upset even if it drove well? It may look like you crashed it a few times, but it's ok if it drives you to work right?

There was the same problem with the apple nano and scratching, people complained how it was being scratched in shirt pockets, so fanboy's came out and said "Why didn't you get a protector, you know it would scratch if you bought it..." or "That's how apple makes their products, don't buy it then." That is irrational! If a company doesn't include the protector in the first place, problems like that, even if they don't affect the 'sound quality' are still problems nonetheless! I saw one poster get absolutely raped by fanboys but in the end, after Apple said yes there was a problem WHEN ENOUGH PEOPLE VOICED COMPLAINS, it became apparent how bad people can get worked up about defending a company.

Would you not be happy if Grado said yes, we can fix the moulds, our quality control got a little weak during those fast paced runs...? Or, yes, our glue gun work was a little sloppy, we can clean it up though...? How would you not benefit? How would Grado not benefit? There are companies making millions of dollars getting information from customers to businesses about such problems and here we do it for no profit! (Check JD Power for instance)

This is hard earned money for most of us, and $200 isn't just pocket change- I would hope to expect my product wouldn't be pre damaged before I got it.

In the end, it is in EVERYONE'S best interest to get these problems fixed. You get a better product, Grado has more sales, more satisfied customers, less returns (I don't know a businessman who wouldn't care about this) and at the end of the day EVERYONE wins...!

/Rant

Btw, your picture is mocking people who say "Shut your face" and is pointing out that the 'ministry of homeland security' is overstepping its boundaries. I don't know if my sarcasm meter is broken tonight, I just thought your post didn't make sense.

 

[xxlMusikfreak]

black permanent marker

 

[neutralzz]

hehe.. its fate! maybe its prompting you to...get them converted into full woodies ;D

 

[Elephas]

Aaaargh! I hate you xxlMusikfreak, now no one is going to send me their HF-1s (although some might say they're uglier than before).

There seems to be a kind of love-hate relationship with the HF-1 and Grado Labs expressed in some posts. I acknowledge my own love-slightly disappointed relationship with the HF-1.

I love the way the HF-1 sounds. I will stick my virtual head on the chopping block and say that it sounds close to my RS-1. It doesn't have as much of the RS-1's distinctive sound (coloration) and bass is not as deep. If I were blindfolded and someone told me I was listening to the RS-2, I would believe it (hyperbolic speculation only, I haven't heard an RS-2).

I couldn't resist leaving the HF-1 in a closet for burn-in and it's been on my head constantly for the past two days. Some headphones I haven't been listening to: the AD2000, DT880 and K1000.

In addition, the fact that Grado Labs made it especially for Head-Fiers and is donating part of the revenue to the site makes me appreciative of Grado Labs and TTVJ. It also makes me proud to be a member here. I want to run to the local audio shops, slap the HF-1 on strangers' heads and yell, "Listen to what Grado Labs made for Head-Fiers!"

Do I wish my HF-1 didn't have the scuff marks? Sure.
Am I disappointed it has the marks? Yes, slightly.
Do I wish it had a leather headband and came in a wood box? Of course.

My HF-1 sounds great and has some cosmetic issues. Am I going to sell it? No, I'm tempted to post a WTB standing offer to buy any and all HF-1s for sale. They could probably be sold locally to non-Head-Fiers for a higher price.

 

[guvnor]

a note about the iPod Nano scratches. Apple has already said that they're using exactly the same material as the previous iPods. so what's different about the Nano that these scratches suddenly come up?

well, the only thing the Nano differs from all previous iPods is that it also comes in black. I'm willing to bet the majority of people who complained had the black Nano. Anyone who's complaning with white ones are just following the crowd.

this is why I was also considering a white Sony PSP - the original black shows finger prints and hairline scratches like crazy.

now, as for the HF-1; I don't think the build quality is acceptable either. I've got a pair of nearly 10 year old, $25 full-sized "Optimus" brand cans from Radio Shack, and at not a single place does the build quality look as bad as the HF-1. For a pair of limited edition hand-made headphones that cost $200, you should expect better.

watch any episode of Top Gear, and the most common complaint about American cars as opposed to their Japanese or European rivals is the fit and finsh of the car interior, along with the lacking quality of the plastics used. they talk about this not because it affects the way the car drives, but because others have proven that you can do better for the same price.

it's undoubtable the HF-1s sound good, and if the build quality doesn't bother you than that's fine, but considering other companies offer better quality for the same or even less price, I would think Grado has to take it up a notch.

sorry for the long post.

 

[xxlMusikfreak]

BTW: I'm glad the HF-1 isn't white although I can see the scratches easily

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheeno You know, *inset rant here*.

WHOA.

Sheeno, I do think your sarcasm radar is broken. Of COURSE I don't advocate saying shut your face all over the boards - and the Dept of Homeland Security propaganda poster didn't cue you in that I was joking?

Anyhow, MJG was NOT saying shut your face to the topic you raised above - he said shut your face to this quote-

"Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaMcPig
My God, you people are delusional."

And here was MJG's original response-

"There is a saying, if you have nothing nice to say, just shut your face."

Therefore, even his shut your face comment was tempered by his attempt to have the initial aggressor pegged as saying something Not Nice, which I agree with.

*Context Police Investigation Closed!*

 

[mjg]

I am freaking tired of this.

HF1 is not a product being put on this mass market, it wasnt something made for headfi members either. Hell i'd be hard pressed to even call it a "product". There is some inference being made here, that this is some sort of huge capitalisitic move on john grado's half to make money here? Guess again, he's making pocket change on this deal, and certainly he didn't need to waste hsi time and energy when he runs a real buisness where he should be earning. How else is the man going to put food on the table? Guess you guys are forgetting this motivation was more of a charity on headfi's behalf, and not
quick way to cash in on a deal. Yet, that's what happens i suppose, people just take things for granted and complain...

Yet, it did become available, for all head-fi members as a form of appreciation towards us and this site. No, that doesn't mean it should be made to fall apart, but john would fix anything anyhow if need be with NO questions. He'd do that with any of his products, if you have had experience with grado gear, you'd know that already....

He didn't need to do a serious market study on these. The intention was to support headfi, and people who belong to headfi. I hate to take a low blow here, but hey i'm just going to to: If you, or anyone else here, who has joined headfi, just to buy these (apparantly these accusations aren't ridiculous, 3 posts?) then where do you get off ranting and complaning here? This headphone wasn't actually created for us int he first place, it's design was dusted off, and though not a perfect one (according to zanth's thread if you read it) it's part of the understanding that he didn't want to go through all this level of product release formalities, and just cut to the chase and let it out for people he likes and supports, the headfi community. Also, just to add: The build quality issue has been so greatly exagaraated it's comical, how many of you guys complaining have held a pair in person, or own these? Let's atleast stop flinging dirt when we have no reason, other then to take an argument to far? I'm all for critiquing these, and if john was an evil person that wouldn't make it right, perhaps i wouldn't be so defensive on his behalf. Yet, he will repair these, and yea they ARE under warranty, and no, no one is perfect. We are all humans here, and i look at grado as a family buisness, and we are sort of a supposed tight knit community here. He is a part of it, and that is why this product came out of cobwebs. We aren't trying to take john to court over this, or get all miffed about his quality control. He would never
leave our members unjustly dissastisfied with the product, and if you bought a pair and are so, damn, upset, about, these tiny nicks, please go ahead and just get it fixed, then the problem is solved, ok?

There are always issues people who pick grado build quality, do some search here, the guys who are anal always complained, yet those, again, are opinions. There is nothing new on that front, except people somehow feel wronged because it's a "headfi" branded product? Not at all, perhaps he should have limited this deal to guys who have belonged here for a few years, and hada certain post count, or had atleast donated, to this site, previously... Yet he didn't.

We aren't defending anything to death, knock it all you want, that's fine, but seriously, don't for a second question john grado's motivations, or anyone elses, without expecting it to hear it from this forums members who give a crap. I'm sorry to take a harsh tone with you, but i feel some of you guys just need to get real.

 

[RedLeader]

I'm not going to take either side here, as I've never held a pair of HF-1s, although I wish I could. These are made for headfiers. From the sounds of this post, the vast majority of us don't really care all that much about build quality, if the sound is right. And the MAJORITY of people that will purchase this can know about grado and what their emphasis is in the product design and manufactuer. So John knows that most people won't care, they just want them NOW. So, does it make more sense for John to get these to the people that are supporting him quickly (Because it is kind of a gift for headfi, and to us) with a slightly higher rate of returns, or to take longer on stuff that most of us won't care about? I think the anwser becomes obvious. That being said, if it DOES bother you and you DO care and have a problem, then he should, and WILL fix it. I'm not defending Grado Labs here, but the decision they seem to have made makes sense. However if this bothers you, you most definetly are entitled to your opinion, and most importantly, any fixes needed.

 

[dag655321]

What you are seeing is technically called a gate vestige. It is common in plastic parts, but for this part there are two problems. One, the gate locatation (where the molten plastic enters the mold) was poorly chosen. Second, it looks like the material has been hand trimmed (rather than using a robot). Most part and mold designers would put the gate on the insde of the part, or at least in a non-cosmetic area. It should not affect the performace, unless excessive material has been removed, leaving the wall weaker than normal.

Maybe next time around John will ask his tool designer to move the gate to the inside of the part, or at least to the top, hidden under the yoke.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dag655321 What you are seeing is technically called a gate vestige. It is common in plastic parts, but for this part there are two problems. One, the gate locatation (where the molten plastic enters the mold) was poorly chosen. Second, it looks like the material has been hand trimmed (rather than using a robot). Most part and mold designers would put the gate on the insde of the part, or at least in a non-cosmetic area. It should not affect the performace, unless excessive material has been removed, leaving the wall weaker than normal. Maybe next time around John will ask his tool designer to move the gate to the inside of the part, or at least to the top, hidden under the yoke.

well john probably can't do anything about a robot trimmer, but that gate suggestion is a great idea, i'm not joking when i say you should call him and suggest it!

 

[Wmcmanus]

Hey guys, I love these kinds of threads as much as anyone. A little 'spice' can be a good thing, and well expressed opinions on both sides of a debate can provide for an interesting discussion. Please do try to keep this thread as civil as possible by being respectful toward one another. Otherwise, it will have to go by the wayside because (quite frankly) it would involve too much time and effort to attempt to prune it at this point.

I've just now, reluctantly, closed a similar thread, here where the thread starter admitted that he was being a troll. Per our Terms of Use (a link to which can be found at the bottom of each and every page on Head-Fi), this is not allowed.

As an HF-1 owner (like many of you), I'm very interested this discussion, and of course everyone should be allowed to freely express themselves; I'm not at all suggesting otherwise. The key is to keep it civil and respectful. When a thread starts to deviate too far from a "healthy" discussion, it no longer serves a useful purpose.

Posts like that made by dag655321 (post #56 above) are quite interesting and helpful and keep threads like this alive!

 

[guvnor]

instead of people complaning about the build quality because they're Head-Fi dedicated, it seems people are taking the criticism too personally for that same reason.

 

[hentai]

Well i am another 'holding off hf-1' person because of three reasons: i couldn't sell my sr225 as it's bad condition, 2ndly i am aiming at a stax, 3rd i am feeling stupid of spending such money on a product which has sub par bulid quality despite i like the grado sound.

I never heard a hf-1 but i don't think its much better than sr225. Why do i say so , its because i heard sr325i and its just lil better than sr225. Does hf-1 sound better than sr325i as well? I doubt so. The ' much better' term is used too frequently imho.

About the build quality, this is always an issue. I always have the fear that one day my sr225 fall apart so bad that no glue , no manual fixing can repair it. The price i have paid for sr225 deserves a better build quality FULL STOP! Then you folks will say ' Grado is running a small business , he doesn't have the financial strength unlike the sennheiser/audio techinca to make grado headphones of better build... bla bla.... as if i can be bothered by all this business model , finance and stuff.

The only few grados which have good build quality are the rs-1, ps-1 maybe the hp-2 but they warrent a very high price.

From mjg: "The build quality issue has been so greatly exagaraated" I don think so. There are many cases of grados falling apart, mine too but managed to repair it. HD595 , hd600 and hd650 have much better build quality that you don't have the slightest fear of them falling apart.

Finally i like grado sound but not till the extent that i can tolerate its build quality.