[LizardKing1]

Quote:

Recently I saw a recommendation of CAL!s for a basshead who wants the best Dubstep cans for <$100. Now, I like the Denon D1001s, listened to them for a good amount of time, but wouldn't recommend them in that situation. Makes me think that the person making the recommendation has never listened to them at all. Likely the person posing the question would have been disappointed.
Personally, I'd steer them to the Sony XB500s, and said that via PM to the guy who is shopping.

Well I haven't tried the XB500's, but my CALs make dubstep sound amazing. This is a good example actually: from what I've read the XB500 don't extend that much, and from my listening the CALs extend well for a closed model. In a thread of a user asking for his opinion I would say this exactly, while stressing I have never tried the XB500s. I don't have to only express my opinion on the CALs because if the OP has 2 neurons working simultaneously he'll be able to deduce my opinion on the CALs is much more valid than mine on the XB. And when a user who has tried both comes along, I expect him to value his opinion more.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

Recently I saw a recommendation of CAL!s for a basshead who wants the best Dubstep cans for <$100. Now, I like the Denon D1001s, listened to them for a good amount of time, but wouldn't recommend them in that situation. Makes me think that the person making the recommendation has never listened to them at all. Likely the person posing the question would have been disappointed.
Personally, I'd steer them to the Sony XB500s, and said that via PM to the guy who is shopping.

I have listened to both the CALs and XB500s.
I would never recommend the XB500s to anyone and would rather recommend the CALs (mostly in the past, would rather push KNS 6400 now)
I agree the XB500s are very bassy, but there was nothing at all I liked in their over all sound quality.
 
 
 

 

[Deckard1979]

Head Fi does have its merits, and is an interesting read in my experience (been reading it far longer than posting).

I do agree that there is a MASSIVE amount of... ahem... rubbish, posted.
 
For example as soon as I see stuff about 100 quid spent on cable replacements transforming the headphone's sound and the like... I cringe.  A lot.  I believe there's a lot of snake oil in the audio industry, a lot of spin, and a lot of that is spun out here intentionally or not.
 
But then again, it's a forum.  Plenty of folk here will completely disagree with what I've posted above.  And that's fine.  We're allowed to disagree.
 
My wife and I have a newborn baby.  Occasionally something happens, and we end up googling for advice.  Google throws back thousands and thousands of contradictory opposite opinions, and we end up more confused than when we started.
 
This is the nature of the internet as a medium, and Head Fi is pretty much the same.

 

[Magick Man]

Well I haven't tried the XB500's, but my CALs make dubstep sound amazing. This is a good example actually: from what I've read the XB500 don't extend that much, and from my listening the CALs extend well for a closed model. In a thread of a user asking for his opinion I would say this exactly, while stressing I have never tried the XB500s. I don't have to only express my opinion on the CALs because if the OP has 2 neurons working simultaneously he'll be able to deduce my opinion on the CALs is much more valid than mine on the XB. And when a user who has tried both comes along, I expect him to value his opinion more.

Problem is, you see posts like, "Get the CAL!s, no question!!" when the person doing the recommendation hasn't heard the other major alternatives. For further details, see below.

I have listened to both the CALs and XB500s.
I would never recommend the XB500s to anyone and would rather recommend the CALs (mostly in the past, would rather push KNS 6400 now)
I agree the XB500s are very bassy, but there was nothing at all I liked in their sound over all sound quality.

See, that's a big issue. New guy wants lots of bass, the CAL!s will disappoint them 9 times out of 10. the XB500s may be a little flabby but they do sound decent out of the box, work well with a little EQ, and are an amateur basshead's dream come true for that price point. I screwed up by recommending D2000s for a person wanting "lots of bass" because my tastes have evolved and I understand that bass quality means precision and oftentimes less quantity. A neophyte isn't going to see that and they accused me of leading them astray and proclaimed "D2000s have no bass at all!", which is absurd. I guess what I'm saying is, point towards the cheeseburger and when/if they evolve their tastes down the road they'll learn to appreciate pheasant. That sounds snooty, but it's true, true head-fi is usually an acquired taste.

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

 
I believe there's a lot of snake oil in the audio industry

 
You say that like it's a bad thing

 

The health benefits of snake oil:

Snake oil originated from China. There, it was used as a remedy pain in joints, rheumatoid arthritis and is still used as a pain reliever there. The fats and the oils extracted from the snakes have a high content of Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), hence it is thought to have inflammation reduction properties. The snake oil is sold in China. Snake fat is also and important component in health industry and when mixed with the fats of lion, crocodile, Nubian ibex and tomcat all into a homogeneous mass is believed to cause the growth of hair in bald men.

The oil remedies were patented in England, where the first patent was granted to Richard Stoughton’s Elixir back in the year 1712. The American snake fats have less EPA content as compared to their Chinese water snake.
 
The main ingredients of the snake oil sold in San Francisco’s Chinatown were unidentified carrier material, including camphor, eicosapentaenic acid, myristic acid , stearic acid , oleic acid, linoleic acid , arachidonic acid. The Chinese water snake is the richest known source of EPA, which is the starting material which the body uses to make the series 3 prostaglandins. These are the biochemical messengers which control some aspects of inflammation of the joints and hair loss. It works like an aspirin, hereby affecting the prostaglandin system. EPA can be absorbed through the skin like some essential fatty acids.
 
Salmon oil, the next best source available, contains around 18% of the EPA. The rattlesnake oil consists around 8.5% of EPA.

The common practice of selling various dubious remedies for real ailments are still occurring today. They have been upgraded with the new marketing techniques. The term snake oil peddling is used as a derogatory term to describe certain practices such as curing chronic diseases such as diabetes mellitus.

 

[mavfan1]

Quote:

I disagree. You buy the QC15s for the noise cancelling first and foremost. Sound quality isn't necessarily the number 1 priority (and I think they sound very good).

I agree completely.  Walk up to anyone wearing QC15s in an airport and ask them if they bought them for their noise cancellation ability or the soundstage, silky mids, or whatever other description you read on reviews here.  I guarantee you it's the noise cancellation.    People who buy these aren't audiophiles, but then again, 99.99% of all people aren't audiophiles.   These folks want to listen to something that sounds good and that gets rid of the jet engine's drone.   They aren't worried about that last half-percent of audiophile goodness they can eek out with a $5000 headphone amp.
 

 

[catscratch]

You have a forum that's primarily full of teenagers and yet you're surprised that they keep talking out of their ***?

The signal to noise ratio is pretty low. That doesn't mean there isn't signal to be had - you just have to filter out the noise. Find people that know what they're talking about, and their word is generally worth a lot more than someone you don't know. I have a few people whose opinions I trust generally. Not blindly mind you, but experience has shown over time that they usually hear things the way that I do. I also trust measurements and design-based criticism more than some random's listening impressions, provided that said criticism comes from a reliable source.

Unfortunately, if you're new and don't know who's who, and you don't have any technical knowledge, it can be damn near impossible to figure out who's full of it and who's not.

Then there's the general progression for someone in the hobby - you start out with low-end stuff and work your way up. When you get there, over time the lower-end of the market changes and suddenly it's full of new headphones which you've never heard. You have a lot of experience with sound in general, but you can't make any kind of serious suggestion for someone based on what's out there now. So you make suggestions based on what you'd do if you had to start over - "Buy vintage Stax! Get into DIY!" - and from the standpoint of someone just starting out, of course it sounds utterly ridiculous. So you get a situation where some of your most experienced people are also out of touch with the entry-level market and aren't really able to help. On the other hand the newer people that do know the entry-level market have usually only ever heard one or two decent things in their life, and of course that's what they'll recommend based on their experience every time even if it's not all that great in the grand scheme of things, or appropriate. Naturally, the advice you're going to get as a newcomer will be contradictory and damn near impossible to make sense of. Rumors will start and become so-called public knowledge - "Stax are all uber expensive and have no bass!" - even when all everybody's doing is playing broken telephone.

And you know what? For a forum of this size, one that has been around for this long, this is all pretty much natural. The people that have created the community got turned off by the outcome of their hard work. Mediocrity has come to feed off their success - and unfortunately, that's usually how things should be.

 

[LizardKing1]

Dude relax... I think some people here would be better off in a private messaging service with their favorite headphone buddies than in a forum.

 

[Taowolf51]

Unfortunately, what seems to be the issue a lot of people bring up (over-recommendation of the M50's) isn't from people recommending headphones they don't have, it's because of people who recommend headphones they *do* have. A lot of newer people get recommended the M50's, get them, then they think they're so great they recommend them to everyone else no matter what (and it spreads). It seems people are having problems with newer and less experienced people (more specifically, people with one headphone).

 

[shadowmanpl]

Well I'm a newcomer. I bought pair of headphones. I'm thinking about 2nd pair - portable ones. There are 100000000 models out there and I think twice that much opinions. My advice: check your funds, hear the headphones, buy those which u DO like. And then try make recommendations, which wont help anyone 
 
Cheers

 

[koonhua90]

Easiest way would be to not ask any recommendation and do all the research yourself. There are huge review threads lying around here n there, enough to give even novice some impressions of the sound. 
 
Then there will be world peace and everyone will be happy 

 

[atomikn00b]

Quote:

Unfortunately, what seems to be the issue a lot of people bring up (over-recommendation of the M50's) isn't from people recommending headphones they don't have, it's because of people who recommend headphones they *do* have. A lot of newer people get recommended the M50's, get them, then they think they're so great they recommend them to everyone else no matter what (and it spreads). It seems people are having problems with newer and less experienced people (more specifically, people with one headphone).

 
Quote:

Problem is, you see posts like, "Get the CAL!s, no question!!" when the person doing the recommendation hasn't heard the other major alternatives...
I screwed up by recommending D2000s for a person wanting "lots of bass" because my tastes have evolved and I understand that bass quality means precision and oftentimes less quantity. A neophyte isn't going to see that and they accused me of leading them astray and proclaimed "D2000s have no bass at all!", which is absurd. I guess what I'm saying is, point towards the cheeseburger and when/if they evolve their tastes down the road they'll learn to appreciate pheasant. That sounds snooty, but it's true, true head-fi is usually an acquired taste.

 
agreed. it is an acquired taste.
 

Spoiler: my%20journey%20in%20brief

 
jvc marshmallows. i was wooooooooooooooooowed. recommended it to my brother and friends. read joker's reviews. saw marshmallows were like 4. wanted more for cheap. brainwavz proalpha iem. decided it lacked bass. lost them. spent a bit more and went to brainwavz m2 iem. loved it. on an impulse, got the brainwavz m4. realized how much subbass/treble i was missing on the m2's. decided i wanted headphones (cheap ones to determine my tastes though i knew it leaned toward bass). superlux 668b. loved it but disliked harshness and the fact it was semi-open. tried xb500. bass/subbass i enjoyed but too much of the rest of the spectrum missing. panasonic htf600. loved it but missed the detail/clarity/soundstage of the 668b. brainwavz hm5. veeeryy nice but i wanted to feel subbass/bass, not just hear it. denon d2k's. excellent all rounder though i think i want the mids a bit more like the hm5's simply for "emotional impact". next on the list to try when i can afford it is audeze.
 
 

 

 

[olor1n]

Blind recommendation without qualification should be a bannable offence imo. 

 I don't really take issue with someone's good intent to point another in the right direction, as long as it's transparent. To me, that's less bothersome than a self appointed expert exerting their questionable views ad nasuem after demoing a headphone for a few minutes in store or any other similar environment. Head-fi meets are somewhat different in that rigs are likely to be "dialled in", but imho views formulated in passing should not hold the same weight as views formed over a longer period of time. Too often, I notice a member's impressions of a first and brief encounter with a headphone develop into a license to outright dismiss said headphone to others without qualification. These views often drown out the ones that provide real insight.
 
Out of curiosity, how many members here have actually posted in the big recommendations thread?

 

[Draygonn]

I do agree that there is a MASSIVE amount of... ahem... rubbish, posted.

Audio Woo has been around a lot longer than Head-Fi. And it doesn't appear to be dying off anytime soon.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Responding to what others have been saying, I don't understand why I can't post at all unless I own a certain headphone. I never try to fool someone into believing I have any experience when I don't, but if I have already made the research I can tell him to look in a certain direction. "Hey you want something with this signature? Maybe this, I never tried it, but from what I've read it's close to what you want". I don't try to have my opinion be valued as much as someone who owns the model, but if no one else will help it's better than nothing. And I always mention what experience I had with said model.

You can, but you shouldn't, because all you're doing is filling up the forum with noise IMO.


Quote:

 
Every time I recommend something I know, and someone actually says they'll follow my recommendation I always think of posting "No wait! Maybe someone else has something better! I KNOW NOTHING!"

This is an example of why you shouldn't post recommendations of products you don't own and have zero experience with. Your recommendations will cause people to buy products. If they are unhappy, because of YOUR posts, they will have wasted their money. Do you think this is ok?
 
Quote:

While I largely agree - there are things that we can know without having had to directly experience them. This can either be by aggregating information from those who do have direct experience, or from scientific measurement, and other inductive and deductive reasoning methods.
 
For instance, I do not have to have heard a specific OTL tube amplifier, in order to suggest that because it is an OTL tube amplifier, and the vast majority of them have relatively high output impedance and lower current output - especially within a given price point, that it might not be well suited to a low sensitivity, low impedance headphone.
 
Having heard a specific headphone before giving a thumbs up or thumbs down is great, but in at many cases, is not always strictly necessary to giving accurate information about that product. And more to the point, is not a guarantee that the person who does have experience with it, is necessarily any good at knowing what they are hearing and why and in any position to give useful information either. 

I wouldn't say that this is the same thing as recommending products you haven't heard. The technical limitations of OTL tube amps are well known and not in dispute. 
 
Quote:

Well I haven't tried the XB500's, but my CALs make dubstep sound amazing. This is a good example actually: from what I've read the XB500 don't extend that much, and from my listening the CALs extend well for a closed model. In a thread of a user asking for his opinion I would say this exactly, while stressing I have never tried the XB500s. I don't have to only express my opinion on the CALs because if the OP has 2 neurons working simultaneously he'll be able to deduce my opinion on the CALs is much more valid than mine on the XB. And when a user who has tried both comes along, I expect him to value his opinion more.

I'd say you shouldn't post at all in this case.