[mbamg]

 
Quote:

You've been here 2 months and that qualifies you as an expert on Head-fi? Some of your comments in this thread are flat out ridiculous. Take a back seat, try not to post for a while, read, experience, then decide if you think you are ready to contribute. Suggesting someone who owns the headphone in question has less valuable opinions than someone who has read reviews is just wrong.

That's not what I said.
 
Quote:

So... you think just because you have a certain headphone and that you have an opinion about it makes you legit? On the other hand, there may be other reviewers who may have their own opinions on the same headphones.
 
The point is, due to the abundance of clear descriptive reviews, once you've read enough of these on the same headphone you'd have more credibility and valuable information as opposed to someone who's only listened it but haven't read up on the opinion of others on the same subject.
 
Also, aspects of sound quality can be proved objectively, and such knowledge does not require experience with the output itself in order to discern differences. In fact, such knowledge has more credibility than personal experiences due to the human brain's tendency to fool itself.

 
Someone who owns the headphone in question but has not read up on the experiences of others on the same subject has less valuable opinions than someone who does not have the headphones themselves but has read the reviews and has spotted enough patterns to form a suitable argument for why or why not one should get the headphone.
 
In comparison, someone who owns the headphone in question and has read up on the experiences of others on the same subject has more valuable opinions than someone who has formed their own argument through the patterns but does not own the headphone themselves.
 
Right now I'm hearing people saying second hand opinions and regurgitating information. I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing against anymore.
 
Quote:

I've been lurking on and off for a while now, but I had to make an account just to say this.
 
I really don't want second hand opinions. If you've never listened to a pair of headphones, you are not qualified to give your opinion, period. Unless you've been intimate with a headphone, you'll never know all the nuances of it. You'll never know how strong the clamping force is, how comfortable, the build quality, the details in the sound. All you'll be able to do without actually hearing it is regurgitating what someone else said. And that becomes a game of telephone where details are lost or, worse, malformed.
 
When I need an opinion on some headphones, either give me your experiences or point me to someone else's.
 
P.S. To Head-Fi, thank you. I love the RE-2's and Panasonic RP-HTF600s I got thanks to recommendations from people who actually tried them. And when I can find the money to upgrade, I'll be looking for more first-hand experiences.

The first two are difficult to measure, so we usually don't recommend headphones based on these aspects, and the third and fourth are questionable. Build quality can be easily discerned through a paragraph-long description, and sound quality can be objectively measured.

 

[Maxvla]

I have a good bit of experience, and I've read several reviews of the Beyer DT1350 which are glowingly positive, but when I heard them they were not very good. Your cumulative reviews point is flawed.

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

I have a good bit of experience, and I've read several reviews of the Beyer DT1350 which are glowingly positive, but when I heard them they were not very good. Your cumulative reviews point is flawed.

Have you replicated the experiences under the same conditions?
 

 

[gareim]

Lol, mbamg, you can't measure sound quality. You can do all the graphs you want, but at the end of the day, people are going to be looking for different sounds because our ears/preferences are different. If graphs were the end-all be-all, then we would just compare graphs and know objectively which headphones are the BEST. But that we all have different favorites show that it's not objective. It's subjective.
 
Also, you're the one being confusing. You did argue for second hand information and regurgitation:
 
"The point is, due to the abundance of clear descriptive reviews, once you've read enough of these on the same headphone you'd have more credibility and valuable information as opposed to someone who's only listened it but haven't read up on the opinion of others on the same subject."

 

[Maxvla]

Have you replicated the experiences under the same conditions?

Meaning what?

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

Lol, mbamg, you can't measure sound quality. You can do all the graphs you want, but at the end of the day, people are going to be looking for different sounds because our ears/preferences are different. If graphs were the end-all be-all, then we would just compare graphs and know objectively which headphones are the BEST. But that we all have different favorites show that it's not objective. It's subjective.
 
Also, you're the one being confusing. You did argue for second hand information and regurgitation:
 
"The point is, due to the abundance of clear descriptive reviews, once you've read enough of these on the same headphone you'd have more credibility and valuable information as opposed to someone who's only listened it but haven't read up on the opinion of others on the same subject."

You would have a point if everyone listened to the same music. It's already been established here that some headphones are more proficient at playing certain genres of music. If you're calling it second hand information because we're wording the first hand information differently then what if I directly quoted the first hand accounts themselves? Would that be called 'regurgitation' then? I'd be repeating what someone else said.
 
Quote:

Meaning what?

 
Playing the same songs, same source, same EQ, same amp (if you have one), same environment. You're going to have to control some variables, and when it comes to headphones these are the major factors. If you have the same controls or you've accounted for the degree of error and still think they're not for you then you can blame your ear/brain.
 
From what I've read up on other people's reviews of headphones I own I realize that I don't have the same experience - but then I'm not listening to the same genre of music anyways.
 
There's too many factors to account for before you can start blaming the headphones themselves.

 

[roma101]

Agreed with the OP, although I think anyone asking for advice should take recommendations with a grain of salt and do a lot of their own research before taking someone's word. As for QC15s, I find the ATH-ANC7s more adequate when it comes to price, build quality, SQ, and NC. Maybe the NC may not be as good as the Bose but it's good enough IMO, especially if you want to cut the price in half and have a longer-lasting headphone. Not disparaging the QC15 at all but like someone else said, this is where price/performance ratio comes into effect and people purchasing headphones for the first time may not have $300 to blow. Just my 2 cents.
 

 
Quote:

The XB500s have awesome price/performance ratio for someone who wants bass (MSRP: $79), yet people recommended the Denon AH-D2000 (MSRP: $349) to a guy who was blown away by the Beats… In the end the guy bought the D2000, was utterly disappointed, and ordered the XB500. For some reason that thread has been closed, so he can't report back unless he starts a new thread.

I think that guy may have been a troll, which is probably why the mods closed his thread. I also think the XB500s are great for the price. Certainly warms my heart to see someone on the street rockin' them instead of Beats.

 

[Maxvla]

Playing the same songs, same source, same EQ, same amp (if you have one), same environment. You're going to have to control some variables, and when it comes to headphones these are the major factors. If you have the same controls or you've accounted for the degree of error and still think they're not for you then you can blame your ear/brain.

From what I've read up on other people's reviews of headphones I own I realize that I don't have the same experience - but then I'm not listening to the same genre of music anyways.

There's too many factors to account for before you can start blaming the headphones themselves.

I heard them at a trade show in a fairly quiet room, and they are sealed, intended for portable play, so I don't think it's an unreasonable environment to test in. I listened to them for about 5 minutes using 4-5 different genres. I need not 'reproduce' the event. Do you take a second bite of a food you instantly don't like? And what's this about blaming ear/brain? If I have a preference it is not the fault of my brain or ear. Neither did anything wrong. It's just a preference.

 

[punkaroo]

This hobby is entirely subjective. We all perceive sound differently because of the shape of our ears.
 
However, I agree with you, pete. As a friend once said: "Don't talk about **** you don't ******* understand!"
 
 

 

[petedgr8]

I'm really glad to see my post is getting some good feedback.  I wrote the initial post in a rush this morning so I should clarify some points.
 
I totally understand that not everyone can purchase 50 headphones, but I wasn't saying that only those having that many qualifies you to give advice.  If you have ONE pair, and you've given them a decent amount of time, then I think the forum deserves your opinion about that pair.  I just think it's a disservice to advice seekers if you try to recommend a headphone you haven't given the time to properly dole out advice for.  Sure you can say, "I heard these were good..." or "I heard these were comparable...", but that's not what I'm seeing.  I'm seeing a lot of posts from people with zero knowledge of the headphones they're talking about, especially to newcomers who are willing to listen.  You've seen them too.  The person writing the post has probably used the Bose listening station in Best Buy for a few minutes, and they also happen to know the names of some cooler cans, like Senn and Grado.  They go like this:
 
"The Bose QC15s are muddy, have bloated bass, and are overpriced.  You can get a good seal without noise cancellation with a closed Sennheiser, or better yet, get the Grado SR80is or SR225s.  They won't isolate sound, but they're cheaper and sound sooo muuuch better."
 
Now, I take a few things away from this.  1) This person will never like Bose products and is embarassed by them because "audiophiles" despise them.  2) He's not helping the person who's obviously looking for NS headphones,  and 3) he probably doesn't own a Grado, but has heard that they sound sweet for a relatively low cost.
 
These people prey on the new folks because frankly, the new folks don't know any better and they can come across as someone who knows a thing or two.  It drives me crazy.  I want to respond to each one, but i'd be on this forum 24/7 trying to.
 
This is a great community with tons of knowledgeable people (yes, even the ones with one or two pairs of cans).  But as has been pointed out already, every forum has it's issues.  In a way, it's good to see these typical issues, because that means this forum is growing every day, and I'm not the only psychotic OCD headphone happy mo fo around.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[thedjswn]

Quote;  
"So... you think just because you have a certain headphone and that you have an opinion about it makes you legit?"
 
Yes.
 
And if you do not have a certain headphone, and have an opinion, your opinion doesn't matter.
If you've never eaten the food, I don't want your opinion on how it tastes.
If you've never seen the movie, I don't care what you think of it.
If you've never been to a certain place I want to go, you don't get tell me about how much fun it is there.
If you don't know the person, you don't get to tell me what they are like.
If you haven't driven the car, you don't get to tell me how it handles.
If you don't sit on the couch, you don't get to tell me how comfortable it is.
If you don't have the headphones, you do not get to give me your opinion on them.
To say that somehow you can  describe the experience of listening to any headphone which you do not have is insane and arrogant.
It's basically saying that i am not smart enough to interpret other peoples reviews myself.
 

 

[petedgr8]

Quote:

Quote;  
"So... you think just because you have a certain headphone and that you have an opinion about it makes you legit?"
 
Yes.
 
And if you do not have a certain headphone, and have an opinion, your opinion doesn't matter.
If you've never eaten the food, I don't want your opinion on how it tastes.
If you've never seen the movie, I don't care what you think of it.
If you've never been to a certain place I want to go, you don't get tell me about how much fun it is there.
If you don't know the person, you don't get to tell me what they are like.
If you haven't driven the car, you don't get to tell me how it handles.
If you don't sit on the couch, you don't get to tell me how comfortable it is.
If you don't have the headphones, you do not get to give me your opinion on them.
To say that somehow you can  describe the experience of listening to any headphone which you do not have is insane and arrogant.
It's basically saying that i am not smart enough to interpret other peoples reviews myself.
 

---editing my response to this... i read it wrong.  sorry THEDJSWN--
 
 

 

[MalVeauX]

 
HeadFi members who have opinions about headphones they don't have nor have listened to?
 
No way!
 
Very best,

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Ha ha.  Wow.  You've missed the point.  But whatever.
 
 

 
Actually, I think he understood the point, and I would agree with him on what he said.
 
Two of my other hobbies are collecting fountain pens and old-school razors. There are far more 'equipment' choices available in these hobbies than in the world of head-fi. However, even though there are a few people who slip through the cracks, it's generally the case that nobody in their right mind would try to give 'their opinion' on how a certain fountain pen writes or how a certain safety razor or blade performs if they've never personally used it. It just doesn't make any sense.
 
I don't see how it should be any different for headphones. Performance of fountain pens and razors is every bit as subjective as performance of headphones, yet somehow it's okay to perpetuate read knowledge of headphones without personal experience attached. I know this wouldn't really go over too well on fountainpennetwork.com or badgerandblade.com, that's for sure...

 

[Maxvla]

Recommendations based on what you've read are fine as long as you are indicating that you are suggesting they do more research on the gear you are recommending, not just buy it based on your recommendation. I do this all the time. I'll say 'X product has been traditionally a good performer for your needs, according to what I've read, you might look at more info on it'. On my computer forum I recently recommended someone look into Etymotic in ears based on his need for supreme isolation but also good sound. I've never heard an Etymotic in my life, but after he looked around he decided to go with it and loved them.