[mbamg]

Quote:

I agree with this thread. You can't just make blind recommendations to people. You should rather site a source of information on them.

According to the OP's argument even that isn't enough. Apparently evaluation and analysis doesn't matter when it comes to recommending headphones.

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

I can understand if people are recommending headphones based on vague, non-descriptive reviews, but the abundance of clear descriptive reviews on head-fi makes his argument quite weak. A lot of us make recommendations on headphones based on the patterns that we've found in those descriptive reviews, even though we've never worn the headphones ourselves. Does it mean that the person we're recommending the headphones to will feel exactly the same way as these reviewers have? Maybe not, but it's pretty much guaranteed that their experience and those of the reviewers will have commonalities.
 

This is the problem -- recommendations based on second, third and fourth hand information.  Why do people feel so compelled to chime in with a recommendation when there are others who are actually qualified to make an informed recommendation based on their own first hand experiences?   If someone wants to base their decision on reviews, they are perfectly capable of reading and interpreting the reviews for themselves and not rely on a half-baked third party interpretation.

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

This is the problem -- recommendations based on second, third and fourth hand information.  Why do people feel so compelled to chime in with a recommendation when there are others who are actually qualified to make an informed recommendation?   If someone wanst to base their decision on reviews, they are perfectly capable of reading and interpreting the reviews for themselves and not rely on a half-baked third party interpretation.

So... you think just because you have a certain headphone and that you have an opinion about it makes you legit? On the other hand, there may be other reviewers who may have their own opinions on the same headphones.
 
The point is, due to the abundance of clear descriptive reviews, once you've read enough of these on the same headphone you'd have more credibility and valuable information as opposed to someone who's only listened it but haven't read up on the opinion of others on the same subject.
 
Also, aspects of sound quality can be proved objectively, and such knowledge does not require experience with the output itself in order to discern differences. In fact, such knowledge has more credibility than personal experiences due to the human brain's tendency to fool itself.

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

So... you think just because you have a certain headphone and that you have an opinion about it makes you legit? On the other hand, there may be other reviewers who may have their own opinions on the same headphones.
 
The point is, due to the abundance of clear descriptive reviews, once you've read enough of these on the same headphone you'd have more credibility and valuable information as opposed to someone who's only listened it but haven't read up on the opinion of others on the same subject.
 
Also, aspects of sound quality can be proved objectively, and such knowledge does not require experience with the output itself in order to discern differences. In fact, such knowledge has more credibility than personal experiences due to the human brain's tendency to fool itself.

 

 

 
 

 

[mbamg]

 
Quote:

 

 

 
 

 
Not sure if you've read up on this, but:
 
isolated anecdotes < combined *public knowledge
 
* public in the sense that such experiences have been replicated and confirmed by the community under the same conditions

 

[shadow419]

Quote:

So... you think just because you have a certain headphone and that you have an opinion about it makes you legit? On the other hand, there may be other reviewers who may have their own opinions on the same headphones.
 
The point is, due to the abundance of clear descriptive reviews, once you've read enough of these on the same headphone you'd have more credibility and valuable information as opposed to someone who's only listened it but haven't read up on the opinion of others on the same subject.
 
Also, aspects of sound quality can be proved objectively, and such knowledge does not require experience with the output itself in order to discern differences. In fact, such knowledge has more credibility than personal experiences due to the human brain's tendency to fool itself.

 
Negative sir.  Personal experience is always a valid opinion.  If you want to relay someone else's opinion just say so and point to the article/review/thread.  Regurgitating others opinions as your own on a headphone without having tried them yourself is a disservice to all.  While headphone X might be labeled as being Y, you may always hear Z.
 

 

[CaveManta]

Who can you blame: The person asking other people to suggest a headphone for them to get, or the people trying to suggest headphones that would be perfect for someone they barely know? Not all of us have heard 50 headphones, or even very many. Why should we? Most of us have done hours of research on almost every headphone.
We just want to help the newbies find some good ideas to start with. And its their choice whether they do research or not once they receive those suggestions.
As has been mentioned in earlier in the thread, everyone does have their own opinion. One person may hear a headphone completely differently than anyone else. The only person who could know what they really want in a headphone is the person buying one.
In conclusion, no one is "right." There are only opinions.
 
Bose's hate/dislike could eventually backlash and become love. Ya never know. 

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

 
Negative sir.  Personal experience is always a valid opinion.  If you want to relay someone else's opinion just say so and point to the article/review/thread.  Regurgitating others opinions as your own on a headphone without having tried them yourself is a disservice to all.  While headphone X might be labeled as being Y, you may always hear Z.
 

If you can have someone else reproduce the same experience under the same conditions then your personal experience will become public knowledge. Else it is simply another isolated testimonial.
 

 

[shadow419]

Quote:

If you can have someone else reproduce the same experience under the same conditions then your personal experience will become public knowledge. Else it is simply another isolated testimony.
 

Agreed, but dismissing isolated testimony as less valid because it doesn't follow group consensus is wrong.  Group consensus can easily be colored by other's opinions.

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

Agreed, but dismissing isolated testimony as less valid because it doesn't follow group consensus is wrong.  Group consensus can easily be colored by other's opinions.

That's why the group consensus only contains the patterns that I've previously mentioned. If other aspects of the reviews are not shared among all, they're either combined into their own groups or discarded altogether.

 

[308med]

Quote:

So... you think just because you have a certain headphone and that you have an opinion about it makes you legit? On the other hand, there may be other reviewers who may have their own opinions on the same headphones.
 
The point is, due to the abundance of clear descriptive reviews, once you've read enough of these on the same headphone you'd have more credibility and valuable information as opposed to someone who's only listened it but haven't read up on the opinion of others on the same subject.
 
Also, aspects of sound quality can be proved objectively, and such knowledge does not require experience with the output itself in order to discern differences. In fact, such knowledge has more credibility than personal experiences due to the human brain's tendency to fool itself

 
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum. I totally understand and sympathize (I was there too!) with new members/audiophiles wanting to contribute to headfi. That being said, the promotion of regurgitating unverified information about audio products as a legitimate form of "advice" is laughable.
 
You said it yourself--there is a clear abundance of very descriptive reviews. Why not direct people to primary sources? If I were to speak to one of my colleagues or try to publish a paper about a topic without citing WHERE I got my information from, I'd be the laughingstock of the academic community.Though it might be a little farfetched to compare forum posts on headfi to world of academia, considering that a lot of people are spending a significant amount of their savings on this stuff, I think it's better to err on the side of promoting accuracy and honesty when it comes to sharing information on this site.

That being said, there are a lot cases when someone just wants a quick and dirty blurb about a product rather than a long, drawn out review. It's totally cool if you just want to paraphrase what someone else said, but why not finish off your comments with a link to the review you read while you're at it? 

I understand what you're saying when it comes to educating yourself about headphones and being able to relay some of the basics about a product. At the same time, though, you shouldn't expect new members (or old members looking for new gear) to somehow distinguish between information from posters who have "read it all" and those who are just talking for the sake of talking.


It's great that headfi has grown over the years, but unfortunately, it seems like good information is much harder to come by if you're very new to the scene. It actually kind of (imo) detracts from the entire purpose of lurking/joining the community for a lot of newcomers.

 

 

[shadow419]

Hyperbole, but group consensus also had the earth as flat, center of the solar system, ect.  I have no issues with wanting to relay other's opinions on headphones, but saying personal opinion without having heard/read other's opinions is less credible is way off base.

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

Hyperbole, but group consensus also had the earth as flat, center of the solar system, ect.  I have no issues with wanting to relay other's opinions on headphones, but saying personal opinion without having heard/read other's opinions is less credible is way off base.

Back then they lacked the sophisticated instruments and haven't derived the formulas required to test their hypotheses under the same conditions. Today we do have the tools and can replicate the conditions to a degree to objectively measure sound quality.
 
And we do direct people to primary sources. A lot.

 

[Maxvla]

Back then they lacked the sophisticated instruments and haven't derived the formulas required to test their hypotheses under the same conditions. Today we do have the tools and can replicate the conditions to a degree to objectively measure sound quality.

And we do direct people to primary sources. A lot.

You've been here 2 months and that qualifies you as an expert on Head-fi? Some of your comments in this thread are flat out ridiculous. Take a back seat, try not to post for a while, read, experience, then decide if you think you are ready to contribute. Suggesting someone who owns the headphone in question has less valuable opinions than someone who has read reviews is just wrong.

 

[gareim]

I've been lurking on and off for a while now, but I had to make an account just to say this.
 
I really don't want second hand opinions. If you've never listened to a pair of headphones, you are not qualified to give your opinion, period. Unless you've been intimate with a headphone, you'll never know all the nuances of it. You'll never know how strong the clamping force is, how comfortable, the build quality, the details in the sound. All you'll be able to do without actually hearing it is regurgitating what someone else said. And that becomes a game of telephone where details are lost or, worse, malformed.
 
When I need an opinion on some headphones, either give me your experiences or point me to someone else's.
 
P.S. To Head-Fi, thank you. I love the RE-2's and Panasonic RP-HTF600s I got thanks to recommendations from people who actually tried them. And when I can find the money to upgrade, I'll be looking for more first-hand experiences.