[petedgr8]

I don't post a lot. Most of the time I read.  If something pertains to me, I may post, but it's rare.  But lately, things have gotten out of control and I have to say something.  What's the issue?  People giving out advice or recommendations on headphones THEY DON'T HAVE. This is especially annoying when giving advice to headphone novices, the ones who rely on the advice and opinions of the people on this forum.  Let me explain...
 
I have close to 50 headphones.  Some are great (Ultrasone Pro 900, Beyer DT1350, Senn HD 580, Grado RS1, Senn IE8, Shure SE 530, etc), but most are crap (too many to list).  So you gotta trust me when I say I have listened to a fair amount.  I know there are folks on here who have more but I'm pretty sure I have a problem too.  That's besides the point.
 
I had to preface with that because what I'm about to say may be shocking to some.  I kinda like the Bose QC15s.  Shake your head now, but many of you know that they are great at NC, they sound pretty decent (really, they're not bad.  not great, but pretty good, so shut up already), and they're mad comfortable.  But there's a huge lot of you who hate on them just because they're Bose.  That's the majority of the forum.  I get it.  Bose marketing, patent issues, etc... it's easy to hate on them.  And yes, most of their headphones blow (In-ear anyone?)
 
So I was trolling around looking for others who might feel the same way about them.. the ones who are willing to overlook this Bose thing, because of all the reasons I mentioned above, without fear or attack from the masses.  I came across one post in particular where a novice wanted to find the best pair of NC headphones, didn't want an IEM, and asked about the QC15s.  Immediately, this happens.. everyone comes out saying how bad they suck, how the sound is crap, and Bose is an awful company.  "You should get a good sealed headphone, or an IEM (knowing, mind you, that the guy didn't want an IEM)."  None of this solid advice, just trashing talking.
 
What really bothered me was this:  People giving advice on headphones they didn't own, and recommending headphones they didn't own.  "The QC 15s suck.  You should get the Senn 300s or 450s.. or this and that...." when CLEARLY, they didn't own these headphones themselves!  Who the hell? This is tragic in my opinion.  Poor guy is now gonna go out and get something else when the QC15s would have been great for him.
 
Here are the facts:  
 
If you trash Bose for their name alone, but you push headphones you don't own purely - for their name alone, what just happened?
 
If you don't own the headphones you're talking about or giving advice on, what makes you qualified to give an opinion at all?
 
If they are good at what they do, why make someone feel bad about getting and using them purely for the what you think they are?
 
Please folks, just stop.  Let's keep this forum real without the hype and BS.  I'm going to proudly wear my QC15s on my commute to work because I just don't care about what you think.  I know about and have enough of the "good" headphones to make your collection cry.  So really, just stop.
 
I'm just gonna keep keepin it real.
 

 

[davidgotsa]

I'm pretty new here but I agree.
 
Way too often I see people say   "I've heard that X is better than Y because bla bla bla, but I've never listened to them" 
 
And I agree, the QC15 is good at what it's supposed to do, but I personally don't like the sound so I will not recommend it to anyone except if the person's priorities are comfort and NC. 

 

[Saintkeat]

I have heard the QC15. It was decent, but the price was pretty high for that sound. ALTHOUGH, you have a point that it probably offers a better sound amongst the NC offerings on the market.
 
Heck I thought the On ears sounded decent too. But I do have a gripe with how Bose prices their products.
 
Back to point, you're right about what's going on here. I don't own much gear to be honest, but I have good access to plenty of gear at any time. I'm lucky with that regard.

 

[skamp]

I love my QC15s. I think they sound great, and they're very good at what they do. I didn't pay for them (they were a gift), and yeah they're very expensive, but damn it, I love them.

My gripe recently has been with people recommending Grados and such to people asking about headphones with bass that would blow their socks off. The obvious choices (Sony MDR-XB500 and co.) have bad rep around here and were mentionned by very few people. I think there's a lot of snobs on head-fi.

 

[dirtpacker]

Totally agree!!  I have a pair of Bose 601 speakers and they are phenomenal.   Lets keep opinions focused on products we own and not just shoot down opinions based on a company we dislike.  Just my 2 cents

 

[ri_toast]

good thing no one come here for life saving information, maybe some hearing loss but it would nice to think that all the info is given by experts.
my ratio of keepers is about 50%. when a great headphone appears you'll certainly hear about it and it will be overwhelmingly positive. then again I have some keepers that no one else seems to like, go figure.
 
it's funny when i read the topic i thought someone had been over exuberant with a recommendation, i was was more dismayed to read what you'd written. one suggestion is to out them ie "you don't own it, have you even heard it?" seems needlessly harsh, i guess that's the reality.
for those buying please consider the source.

 

[mbamg]

 
Quote:

I don't post a lot. Most of the time I read.  If something pertains to me, I may post, but it's rare.  But lately, things have gotten out of control and I have to say something.  What's the issue?  People giving out advice or recommendations on headphones THEY DON'T HAVE. This is especially annoying when giving advice to headphone novices, the ones who rely on the advice and opinions of the people on this forum.  Let me explain...
 
I have close to 50 headphones.  Some are great (Ultrasone Pro 900, Beyer DT1350, Senn HD 580, Grado RS1, Senn IE8, Shure SE 530, etc), but most are crap (too many to list).  So you gotta trust me when I say I have listened to a fair amount.  I know there are folks on here who have more but I'm pretty sure I have a problem too.  That's besides the point.
 
I had to preface with that because what I'm about to say may be shocking to some.  I kinda like the Bose QC15s.  Shake your head now, but many of you know that they are great at NC, they sound pretty decent (really, they're not bad.  not great, but pretty good, so shut up already), and they're mad comfortable.  But there's a huge lot of you who hate on them just because they're Bose.  That's the majority of the forum.  I get it.  Bose marketing, patent issues, etc... it's easy to hate on them.  And yes, most of their headphones blow (In-ear anyone?)
 
So I was trolling around looking for others who might feel the same way about them.. the ones who are willing to overlook this Bose thing, because of all the reasons I mentioned above, without fear or attack from the masses.  I came across one post in particular where a novice wanted to find the best pair of NC headphones, didn't want an IEM, and asked about the QC15s.  Immediately, this happens.. everyone comes out saying how bad they suck, how the sound is crap, and Bose is an awful company.  "You should get a good sealed headphone, or an IEM (knowing, mind you, that the guy didn't want an IEM)."  None of this solid advice, just trashing talking.
 
What really bothered me was this:  People giving advice on headphones they didn't own, and recommending headphones they didn't own.  "The QC 15s suck.  You should get the Senn 300s or 450s.. or this and that...." when CLEARLY, they didn't own these headphones themselves!  Who the hell? This is tragic in my opinion.  Poor guy is now gonna go out and get something else when the QC15s would have been great for him.
 
Here are the facts:  
 
If you trash Bose for their name alone, but you push headphones you don't own purely - for their name alone, what just happened?
 
If you don't own the headphones you're talking about or giving advice on, what makes you qualified to give an opinion at all?
 
If they are good at what they do, why make someone feel bad about getting and using them purely for the what you think they are?
 
Please folks, just stop.  Let's keep this forum real without the hype and BS.  I'm going to proudly wear my QC15s on my commute to work because I just don't care about what you think.  I know about and have enough of the "good" headphones to make your collection cry.  So really, just stop.
 
I'm just gonna keep keepin it real.
 

Many don't like Bose because they're unrealistically priced compared to their competition. Never mind that they're known to have better noise-cancelling than other headphones; if the only justification for their price is that feature, then the people here would prefer recommending headphones that don't have noise-cancelling at all. Of course, if one is to take them on an airplane, then there are few other headphones to recommend...
 
Not everyone here can afford spending upwards of $150 on headphones, and frankly there's been many stories of those who did and could not tell a difference. Novices already find a huge improvement in sound over stock earbuds by spending less than $50, which is mostly IEM territory, hence the recommendations. Let me put it this way: even if Bose headphones somehow sounded "twice" as good as its competitors, it still wouldn't be recommended to novices due to the high price tags and the inability of many to perceive a difference.
 
I've personally listened to my friend's AE2s briefly and did enjoy them while I had them, but I later found out that he returned them because they sounded too harsh on some tracks and they didn't have enough bass for him. Mind you, his previous headphones were the MDR-V150s so I was quite surprised that he'd jump straight to $170 for a pair of headphones. And from all the reviews of the M50s that I've read, exposure to his music and his complaints about the AE2s I could tell that he prefers a v-shaped sound signature with ample bass, which is something the M50s can provide. In the end he went back to using the V150s and haven't switched since.
 
As for the V150s, after I've read all the reviews about them I got a chance to wear them. They sounded exactly like what the reviews reported - crap.
 
You're right about pushing headphones that we don't own, though. I personally have seen others hype up the Hippo VBs and M50s when they didn't own them. I admit to doing so myself.
 
It's not snobbery that we're promoting here - it's price/performance ratios.
 
Quote:

I love my QC15s. I think they sound great, and they're very good at what they do. I didn't pay for them (they were a gift), and yeah they're very expensive, but damn it, I love them.
My gripe recently has been with people recommending Grados and such to people asking about headphones with bass that would blow their socks off. The obvious choices (Sony MDR-XB500 and co.) have bad rep around here and were mentionned by very few people. I think there's a lot of snobs on head-fi.

OK now that's messed up. I wasn't aware that the XB-500s have a bad rep around here; I've seen them being recommended many times.

 

[MS1605]

Great post Pete. This is a problem on most forums though. I have a lot of hobbies (audio being the newest) and I am a bit of a forum junky. I'm on everything from gun forums, knife forums, powerlifting forums, everything I'm into. Regurgitation of things that people don't have any first hand experience with but push because someone said it was good, or say something is bad because it's this brand or that is a widespread problem.

 

[Kerry56]

 
Quote:

If you don't own the headphones you're talking about or giving advice on, what makes you qualified to give an opinion at all?
 
(emphasis mine)

This is the part of the post I'm having trouble with.  It is possible to form an opinion of a set of headphones by listening to them a few times, and then be qualified to say something about your experience with them.  Reviewers do this all the time.   It doesn't necessarily mean you've tried them with a huge variety  of music or with many different setups. 
 
And what about headphones one used to own and no longer do?  Are those experiences negated because you can no longer pick them up immediately and renew your thoughts on how they sound?
 
 

 

[skamp]

It's not snobbery that we're promoting here - it's price/performance ratios.

The XB500s have awesome price/performance ratio for someone who wants bass (MSRP: $79), yet people recommended the Denon AH-D2000 (MSRP: $349) to a guy who was blown away by the Beats… In the end the guy bought the D2000, was utterly disappointed, and ordered the XB500. For some reason that thread has been closed, so he can't report back unless he starts a new thread.

 

[petedgr8]

"And what about headphones one used to own and no longer do?  Are those experiences negated because you can no longer pick them up immediately and renew your thoughts on how they sound?"
 
 
 
 
 
Cmon, this is just taking it too literally.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Il Mostro]

I agree -- if you are not a present or former owner of a piece of equipment under discussion, it is in everyone's best interest to just stay on the sidelines rather than make completely uninformed recommendations or crtiques.
 
BTW, speaking of Bose, there was a time (back in the day) when their 901 speakers were quite the thing.

 

[fabio-fi]

 
Quote:

 

OK now that's messed up. I wasn't aware that the XB-500s have a bad rep around here; I've seen them being recommended many times.

Well..they don't. 

 

[mbamg]

Quote:

I agree -- if you are not a present or former owner of a piece of equipment under discussion, it is in everyone's best interest to just stay on the sidelines rather than make completely uninformed recommendations or crtiques.
 
BTW, speaking of Bose, there was a time (back in the day) when their 901 speakers were quite the thing.

I can understand if people are recommending headphones based on vague, non-descriptive reviews, but the abundance of clear descriptive reviews on head-fi makes his argument quite weak. A lot of us make recommendations on headphones based on the patterns that we've found in those descriptive reviews, even though we've never worn the headphones ourselves. Does it mean that the person we're recommending the headphones to will feel exactly the same way as these reviewers have? Maybe not, but it's pretty much guaranteed that their experience and those of the reviewers will have commonalities.
 

 

[Rezound Sound]

I agree with this thread. You can't just make blind recommendations to people. You should rather site a source of information on them.