[Multi-Review] Hifiman HM901, Fiio X5, Sony ZX1, Hisound Studio 3rd Anv, iPhone 4

[Tympan]

my buddy an i abxd tested each other n time n time again flac is noticeably better than mp3    ...   For me flac is siperior to lossy...

 
Same here. I've compared same songs in 320 mp3 and Flac formats with HM801, HM700, and Tera player
=> Flac sound better to my ears + the background is completely silent with Flac. With the mp3s, there is a hiss in the background most noticeable at the start of songs or during "silences"

 

[Makiah S]

*sigh* Brooko and I have been battleing for months if not a  year now. I'm not going to get into it, most of the community feels Flac is superior to lossless, what ever point I make you guys will only counter it, what ever objective evidance I produce you won't accept it. And your now fighting to change what has been an established standard for a while now. I won't stop you, as in theory with the digital age moving forward it should be possible to produce the quality of flac in a smaller bit rate. I belive ogg vorbis is a step in the right direction in this regard. 
 
Of course we used foo bar, matched each file in Audacity to ensure that they where volumed matched, we took flac's from cd's that we ripped, and we ripped them at 100% cue's with EAC files names where teh same and we didn't use any id3 tags or meta data, I mean I could go on but Brooko and others always feel the need to dis prove my methodology :3 so why waste my time
 
 
That said, peace out guys! 

 

[eke2k6]

   
Same here. I've compared same songs in 320 mp3 and Flac formats with HM801, HM700, and Tera player
=> Flac sound better to my ears + the background is completely silent with Flac. With the mp3s, there is a hiss in the background most noticeable at the start of songs or during "silences"

 
It seems to me that there's a problem with your encoders/decoders.
 
Still, the debate is getting tiring. You can't show someone who doesn't want to learn.
 

  *sigh* Brooko and I have been battleing for months if not a  year now. I'm not going to get into it, most of the community feels Flac is superior to lossless, what ever point I make you guys will only counter it, what ever objective evidance I produce you won't accept it. And your now fighting to change what has been an established standard for a while now. I won't stop you, as in theory with the digital age moving forward it should be possible to produce the quality of flac in a smaller bit rate. I belive ogg vorbis is a step in the right direction in this regard. 
 
Of course we used foo bar, matched each file in Audacity to ensure that they where volumed matched, we took flac's from cd's that we ripped, and we ripped them at 100% cue's with EAC files names where teh same and we didn't use any id3 tags or meta data, I mean I could go on but Brooko and others always feel the need to dis prove my methodology :3 so why waste my time
 
 
That said, peace out guys! 

 
 
A standard developed by people who seemingly have no idea how digital encoding works. I'm truly not interested in changing your mind specifically, rather trying to show the people who are looking for terabyte drives to hold only 1000 dsd songs that there's truly no reason for it.
 
Enjoy your music

 

[Makiah S]

   
It seems to me that there's a problem with your encoders/decoders.
 
Still, the debate is getting tiring. You can't show someone who doesn't want to learn.
 
 
 
A standard developed by people who seemingly have no idea how digital encoding works. I'm truly not interested in changing your mind specifically, rather trying to show the people who are looking for terabyte drives to hold only 1000 dsd songs that there's truly no reason for it.
 
Enjoy your music

... DSD, yea I hear you there. For me Flac is more than enough but DSD ... that one does make me chuckle... along with what 24/192 still Red Book was the standard since what the 1980s? It is rather old, so I do look forward to smaller portable media. Still I prefer to get Redbook rips when I can. Just to keep everything on the up an up. Not to mention I'm still some one who buys physical CD's. Never been a fan of downloading music, takes the fun out of going to a CD shop, or rather it removes the interaction that I enjoy in a music shop. I can't have an intelligent conversation about a band with the internet :/ BUT I can at my LOCAL music shop! [There's like 2 of them left] So that's another reason I prefer to get CD's, and encourages others to accept Flac as a standard.
 
But DSD, yea I'm not a fan of that either 

 

[eke2k6]

  ... DSD, yea I hear you there. For me Flac is more than enough but DSD ... that one does make me chuckle... along with what 24/192 still Red Book was the standard since what the 1980s? It is rather old, so I do look forward to smaller portable media. Still I prefer to get Redbook rips when I can. Just to keep everything on the up an up. Not to mention I'm still some one who buys physical CD's. Never been a fan of downloading music, takes the fun out of going to a CD shop, or rather it removes the interaction that I enjoy in a music shop. I can't have an intelligent conversation about a band with the internet :/ BUT I can at my LOCAL music shop! [There's like 2 of them left] So that's another reason I prefer to get CD's, and encourages others to accept Flac as a standard.
 
But DSD, yea I'm not a fan of that either 

 
The irony in this post made me chuckle 

 
Cheers 

 

[Makiah S]

   
The irony in this post made me chuckle 

 
Cheers 

And equally ironic is the fact that you bought a hm901 to listen to mp3 and 256 aac with lol
 
like wise 

 

[eke2k6]

  And equally ironic is the fact that you bought a hm901 to listen to mp3 and 256 aac with lol
 
like wise 

 
It's not ironic if there's no difference . Unless you're saying the hifiman decoders are sub-par.
 
The irony I was pointing out was that you say FLAC is undeniably better than MP3, yet DSD - a format that is supposedly taken straight from the engineer's studio in untouched glory - is no better.
 
 
 
Someone please lend me an AK240, so that I too may worship it.

 

[Makiah S]

   
It's not ironic if there's no difference .

Again, it's funny in the same sense as a fellow who buys a Ferrai, and fills it with 87 octane.  Ironic in that you buy a ferrai for the increased performance, you then fill it with a gas that will hinder it's performance... or rather that won't give you 100% of what you paid for.

 

[eke2k6]

  Again, it's funny in the same sense as a fellow who buys a Ferrai, and fills it with 87 octane.  Ironic in that you buy a ferrai for the increased performance, you then fill it with a gas that will hinder it's performance... or rather that won't give you 100% of what you paid for.

 
I know we're just having a gentleman's disagreement, but to some it may seem like an argument so this will be my last response.
 
I put in the OP that a Veyron would still obliterate a lesser car, even with crappy tires. If these top tier daps are so good, why does my Clip+ easily compete with the HM901 (in SQ, not amp power), even besting it in linearity and neutrality. I already said that I repeated my tests with FLAC files directly from HDTracks, and from my own ripped CDs. The results were the same.
 
Again, if you want to upgrade the SQ of your system look into headphones. These DAPs present miniscule differences for such large amounts of money.

 

[Makiah S]

   
I know we're just having a gentleman's disagreement, but to some it may seem like an argument so this will be my last response.
 
I put in the OP that a Veyron would still obliterate a lesser car, even with crappy tires. If these top tier daps are so good, why does my Clip+ easily compete with the HM901 (in SQ, not amp power), even besting it in linearity and neutrality. I already said that I repeated my tests with FLAC files directly from HDTracks, and from my own ripped CDs. The results were the same.
 
Again, if you want to upgrade the SQ of your system look into headphones. These DAPs present miniscule differences for such large amounts of money.

well Im also using my DAPS as a Line out, I never use the onboard amps, and for me the hm601 line out into my amp was better than my Zune HD, and my hm801 line out into my amp was better than the hm601 
 
so the way we use our DAPS is differant as well. 

 

[james444]

truth is subjected to are opinions. Ive abxd from golden ears. my buddy an i abxd tested each other n time n time again flac is noticeably better than mp3

thats long been established but even objective data is in the end subjected to ur opinion. For me the hm801 is all i need in a dap. For me flac is siperior to lossy. ive done all the objective testing n proven to my self what i believe is truth.

if u disagree so b it. so long as we both njoy the music. this is a hobby for me, Brooko n I agree on mny things n disagree on some as well n we both njoy our music. n both make valid recommendations. n we both have as much a chance to b wrong in our beliefs... but thats ok isnt it. now that said im off to go watch a movie

 
One thing's for sure, I can tell lossless from lossy in a post.

 

 

[eke2k6]

Update:
 
The Etymotic ER4S is back in my possession. I redid the tests I could with the remaining DAPs I have here, and the overall result is enough for me to validate my initial findings.

 

[irvin59]

What headphones are you planning on using as they can be the limiting factor with higher end DAPs?

Having just reviewed the X5, I found that while my TF10s and Monster Copper IEMs sounded better than ever before, they were a limiting factor keeping the X5 from showing all its glory. On the other hand, my very neutral and extended Hidition NT6pro CIEM never sound so good before even sounding better on the X5 than my desktop. The NT6pro really allowed me to see just how much the X5 had to give. Finally, the LCD-X really shined on the X5 providing prospective into a completely different warmer signature although the X5 became the limiting factor where the desktop setup could really outclass it. Each DAP obviously pairs better with some headphones than others depending on its signature and power capabilities. Are your friends loaning you an assortment of quality headphones as well to try different pairings?

Just saying... :wink_face:

Agree completely. Iem's are in my experience a huge limiting factor in such tests. I have the AS-2's and find them not capable of scaling up to the max with lossless or Hi Res on a good dap. My UM Merlin and AKG 3003's on the other hand reveal major differences. Even comparing my galaxy note 3 with Hi Res or uncompressed files, using viper4android, against my iPhone 4, iPad or iPod classic using the right iem's, the idevices come off very poorly. However, when I add a CLAS and ALO MK3 the sound from any of the idevices is outstanding, indicating that dac and amp make a huge difference. While a high quality dap wont match a 3 brick stack , I can't see how having a one piece unit with a superior amp and dac (compared to a non dedicated dap) together with a cleaner signal path and improved power supply, could possibly be only marginally better or indistinguishable, unless the headphones or iem's are the limiting factor.

 

[eke2k6]

Agree completely. Iem's are in my experience a huge limiting factor in such tests. I have the AS-2's and find them not capable of scaling up to the max with lossless or Hi Res on a good dap. My UM Merlin and AKG 3003's on the other hand reveal major differences. Even comparing my galaxy note 3 with Hi Res or uncompressed files, using viper4android, against my iPhone 4, iPad or iPod classic using the right iem's, the idevices come off very poorly. However, when I add a CLAS and ALO MK3 the sound from any of the idevices is outstanding, indicating that dac and amp make a huge difference. While a high quality dap wont match a 3 brick stack , I can't see how having a one piece unit with a superior amp and dac (compared to a non dedicated dap) together with a cleaner signal path and improved power supply, could possibly be only marginally better or indistinguishable, unless the headphones or iem's are the limiting factor.

 
 
The only problem is that I had the K3003 last month as well. Our definitions of "scale up" must be entirely different.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/664613/review-aurisonics-asg-2-comparisons-added-k3003-xba-h3-s-em6#post_9452102

 

[irvin59]

   
 
The only problem is that I had the K3003 last month as well. Our definitions of "scale up" must be entirely different.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/664613/review-aurisonics-asg-2-comparisons-added-k3003-xba-h3-s-em6#post_9452102

Must be- to me the AS-2 was completely uninvolving. My most disappointing ciem ever, despite high expectations from the hybrid design. I managed to listen them for about a week, and after I discovered that I couldn't sell them as they can't be reshelled, the only use I've had for them is to provide a spare cable for my merlins.