MSB Analog DAC? (Review p3)
Dec 7, 2015 at 6:44 PM Post #451 of 740
 
Which fuses did you get? f you haven't already, try listening for direction, you may detect a difference. If there are more than one fuses you will most likely find that they work best in faced in opposing directions, that show the current flows through the fuse holder.
 
Re the "50" Select II DAC's, there are 50 Select II DAC's period being produced in the current production run, looks like Ricardo may be on his propaganda machine again 
wink_face.gif

I am not going to debate the value of a Select DAC with anyone, however it is important to take into consideration that you no longer need a pre-amp and once the new Network Renderer is finished (8-12 weeks) you will not need a music server either, in fact after Roy's findings with "direct" driving headphones out of balanced outputs works successfully then you won't need an amp either. That's my rationale, or delusion, anyway, very soon I get to find out 1st hand. 
 
The quad USB is a huge upgrade over the former, heard it last week, not a subtle difference.
 
I borrowed a Regen from a fellow audiophile, didn't work to well on the Nagra. Running the Curious USB cable for now, very nice.
 
Oh and the Shunyata, if you are trying it out its an idea to get the dealer to lend you a digital and a analog version of the Alpha or Sigma (if that's what you are trying) I have had great success with the digital cord.  It does not work on all DAC's sometimes they can sound awful, best way is to try both. However on the 10 or so DAC's I have tried the digital on it has worked better than the Analog for 90% of them.
 
Isolation platforms, have you given any thought to isolating your products? In particular isolating the DAC can work wonders, power supplies also benefit a lot in my experience.


I wanted the REDs, but I couldn't get the size I needed for the 600i (larger 3AG type, quick blow), so opted for Hi-Fi Tuning Silver Star fuse. I'll try reversing the direction.
 
Select IIs - thanks for clarifying. He made it sound like 50 orders :¬)
 
I'm interested to see how the Regen affects the Analog while I wait for the Quad USB interface, although I'd prefer to have it powered via a linear PSU.
 
Yes indeed, I have both Analogue (amp) and Digital (dac) versions coming to me next week. Looking forward to auditioning them.
 
I've just acquired a new rack - a UK based company who work closely with Nordost. They use their testing facilities (which is far beyond most hi fi rack manufacturers here), and in fact Nordost require that their racks are used whenever people are exhibiting their cables. If they're good enough for Nordost, I assume they're good enough for me...
 
I'm open to suggestions of course, as long as the price isn't cosmic is scale :¬)
 
Update: just seen your LCD-4 comment. They're that good? Abyss, HEK, all gone?
 
Dec 7, 2015 at 6:58 PM Post #452 of 740
I will in fact in a weeks time have the Select II, the Chord DAVE and the Nagra HD under the roof. Any piece of audio equipment especially the statement ones are an expression of the designers or manufacturers statement piece. I am particularly interested in the DAVE vs the Nagra HD but will also compare them to the Select II.

Trouble is I have sold all of my headphones except for the LCD-4's. You sell Bang & Olufsen right? You believe they are the best products in their intended marketplace?  Then you would know all about the price being "just a figure" or not? I am interested in your response.


That will be a thrill to read about, please post your findings at this space:wink:

Okey, so you are just into speakers now or ?


Im objective and nuanced when it come to Bang&Olufsen or any brand, and i can easily admit to myself and others that the product are not give me better SQ, if i have bought a product that i find not to perform or work as i intended to, but 90% in the HiFi-world cant admit to them self that not every new part they buy give them improvements to the sound, they just tell them self this to their self a steam so they feel better, it does not always get better, maybe different, but not always better just because of the $$$ price tag.

So i feel that im not colored or in favor by any brand at all, i handpick the best in my oppinion to the propose i have for the product , and i just sell Bang&Olufsen that does not mean that i think its the best sounding brand in the prize range and i know their weaknesses and strong parts.

They are one of the stongest ranked brand names in the world , and make crazy speakers / TVś, but
the only speaker i could recommend for a real audiophile is the newly released BeoLab 90 , the rest are good, but not in the high end leauge.
 
Dec 10, 2015 at 9:21 AM Post #454 of 740
New toy arrived...
 
Mac (Audirvana 2+) > iFi iUSB Power > Uptone Regen > MSB Analog + Power Base
 

 
Quad USB on order. How I wish the Network Renderer was already released! Although people who have heard it say the Quad is at the same level (both convert to I2S).
 
Letting it warm up before auditioning.
 
Dec 10, 2015 at 9:44 AM Post #455 of 740
I have tried jitterbug, it does not work on MSB Analog. analog is quite choosy on some toys.
 
Dec 10, 2015 at 3:29 PM Post #456 of 740
  New toy arrived...
 
Mac (Audirvana 2+) > iFi iUSB Power > Uptone Regen > MSB Analog + Power Base
 

 
Quad USB on order. How I wish the Network Renderer was already released! Although people who have heard it say the Quad is at the same level (both convert to I2S).
 
Letting it warm up before auditioning.

Impressive setup, Ross.  It has a zen quality to it.  So the Lumin is serving only as a music server/streamer?  Is that a NAS on the bottom shelf?
 
Dec 10, 2015 at 5:19 PM Post #457 of 740
  Impressive setup, Ross.  It has a zen quality to it.  So the Lumin is serving only as a music server/streamer?  Is that a NAS on the bottom shelf?


Thanks Roy.
 
I'm comparing the Lumin against the MSB using a Mac as transport. It'll be more interesting when the Quad USB arrives. Even more so with the Aurender N10. Tempted to give Scott a call to see if he has CAD gear for home demo :¬)
 
Dec 11, 2015 at 6:06 PM Post #458 of 740
 
Thanks Roy.
 
I'm comparing the Lumin against the MSB using a Mac as transport. It'll be more interesting when the Quad USB arrives. Even more so with the Aurender N10. Tempted to give Scott a call to see if he has CAD gear for home demo :¬)

 Please post some impressions or comparison between Lumin A1 vs MSB+Quad USB with Mac. I´m interested how a great streamer compares to a great DAC with Quad USB upgrade. 
Thank you all for your impressions and sharing experience about high end DACs/setups. Really appreciated.
 
Dec 11, 2015 at 6:09 PM Post #459 of 740
   Please post some impressions or comparison between Lumin A1 vs MSB+Quad USB with Mac. I´m interested how a great streamer compares to a great DAC with Quad USB upgrade. 
Thank you all for your impressions and sharing experience about high end DACs/setups. Really appreciated.

 
Will do :¬)
 
  Impressive setup, Ross.  It has a zen quality to it.  So the Lumin is serving only as a music server/streamer?  Is that a NAS on the bottom shelf?

 
Sorry, missed the last question. Yes, it's a QNAP HS-251 silent (fanless) NAS. It has an SSD for music and HDD for TV/Films. I wanted to go dual SSD but in doing so coil whine became (too) apparent. Single or double SSD = whine. SSD + HDD = no problem. Odd.
 
Dec 12, 2015 at 5:11 PM Post #460 of 740
  New toy arrived...
 
Mac (Audirvana 2+) > iFi iUSB Power > Uptone Regen > MSB Analog + Power Base
 

 
Quad USB on order. How I wish the Network Renderer was already released! Although people who have heard it say the Quad is at the same level (both convert to I2S).
 
Letting it warm up before auditioning.

Wow Ross, looking good ! To clarify no-one has heard the 2nd gen Renderer not even MSB as it is nowhere near finalised yet. I am hoping that an endpoint for Roon will be part of its feature set. When do you expect to receive the Quad USB? According to the user manual it seems we will need the 5V power line attached.
 
I am still waiting on the Select, last update was it will be shipping by Christmas, I hope that does't mean on Christmas Eve 
rolleyes.gif
 
 
I have sold my Nagra but the new owner has agreed to let me hold onto it until the Select arrives. Have you thought of putting the Analog on some footers like these 
 
http://www.blackravioli.com/products/big-pad/ I use them under the CAT they need some experimentation with positioning to get the best results. Do not place them under the clocks or outputs.
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 6:05 AM Post #461 of 740
  Wow Ross, looking good ! To clarify no-one has heard the 2nd gen Renderer not even MSB as it is nowhere near finalised yet. I am hoping that an endpoint for Roon will be part of its feature set. When do you expect to receive the Quad USB? According to the user manual it seems we will need the 5V power line attached.
 
I am still waiting on the Select, last update was it will be shipping by Christmas, I hope that does't mean on Christmas Eve 
rolleyes.gif
 
 
I have sold my Nagra but the new owner has agreed to let me hold onto it until the Select arrives. Have you thought of putting the Analog on some footers like these 
 
http://www.blackravioli.com/products/big-pad/ I use them under the CAT they need some experimentation with positioning to get the best results. Do not place them under the clocks or outputs.

 
Thanks for the clarification Simon, and agreed, a Roon endpoint would be perfect.
 
Fingers crossed it gets to you sooner rather than later! :¬)
 
I had encountered those pads elsewhere and wondered about them. Tempted to try some, thanks for the nudge.
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 8:41 AM Post #462 of 740
  I had the chance hear the MSB Select DAC at a local distributors place a couple of weeks back, I've finally gotten the time to write up my listening experiences now and this seemed like the perfect place.
 
  The system I heard it in consisted of my laptop running J River as the source, feeding the MSB Select which was plugged directly into a set of SGR Audio MT3.2 active loud speakers. The DAC was on a SGR Audio stand and there was no power conditioning in the system, with the room having minimal sound treatment with the rear opening into a large living area with 3m vaulted ceilings. So there was a lot of room for sound improvement from power tweaks to room tweaks.
 

 

 

 

 

 
  To start off here's a brief summary of my equipment experiences in the HiFi world. My current headphone system consists of a CAD CAT transport, LH DaVinci Dual DAC, Woo Audio WA234's and HEK headphones. For speakers I've currently got a pair of Vienna Acoustic Klimt the Kiss speakers powered by Auralic Merak Monoblocks.
  Power conditioning is a Shunyata Triton and Typhon, power cables are a Shunyata Sigma Digital for the DAC and Shunyata Alpha HC's for everything else. Isolation is achieved by some Quadraspire Racks and HRS M3X bases under the 234's, DaVinci and CAT. Interconnects and headphone cables are DHC Spore4 Silver.
  I've previously owned the following; JPS Labs Abyss, HD800, T5P, Grado PS1000, LCD XC, Auralic Vega, Woo Audio WA5, Antipodes DS, Antipodes DX and Zu Audio Soul Supreme speakers. I've also spent a good amount of time with the CAD DAC.
  Some other gear I've auditioned throughout my journey on the headphone is the LCD 3F, LCD X, SR009, Luxman P-700u, Cavalli LAu, Schiit Ragnarok, Viva Egoista, Cypher Labs Prautes and Vioelectric V281.
For speakers the only other system of note that I'd heard has been some Wilson Audio Alexia's driven by the following; Gryphon Colosseum and Gryphon Pandora, Dan D'Agosinto Integrated, Dan D'Agostino Pre and Monoblocks. With the DAC used being the Gryphon Kalliope and DCS Vivaldi. Though in that system the power, room, isolation and treatment were far from ideal.
  Hopefully that gives you a brief insight into my audio experiences and journey so far.
 
 
  Now on to my thoughts from listening to the system pictured above.
I'll start off with what was apparent first, as soon as I had walked into the room. The build quality, the Select DAC is flawlessly finished, not a single tool mark or blemish anywhere on the chassis or screen. The black finish is consistent throughout and exudes quality. The curves and flowing lines of the chassis make it look smaller in photos than it actually is, the footprint is actually rather large in person. Though the size never becomes overwhelming or boorish, the form factor of the unit is flowing and gentle on the eyes, it draws your attention but never seems out of place. There was nothing I could fault in the chassis design or build.
  The speakers, which are hand made and finished locally in Australia, match the MSB perfectly in terms of quality. The surfaces are perfectly polished to a mirror sheen, free of swirls or scratches. No joins are visible and the two speakers are perfectly symmetrical. Easily the finest finishes to a speaker I have ever had the privilege of seeing. I only wish I had a proper camera instead of my phone to properly convey the build quality of the MSB Select and SGR Speakers.
 
  Now on to the sound, I played a variety of music, from electronic to classical, rock, female vocal and even some chillout music. It handled each and every genre with ease.
  What struck me initially upon playing music was just how transparent the sound was, everything sounded so natural, so right and effortless. It was a sound free of grit, harshness or brightness, it was so relaxing and enveloping I could listen to it for hours on end without becoming fatigued. In fact during my listening 5 hours had passed by before I had realised it. A big thanks to the local SGR Owner and MSB Distributor, Stuart Ralston, for welcoming me to listen and spend so much time with such an astounding system.
  The next thing that stood out was how whole the soundstage was, filled with exacting imaging and placement. The soundstage was completely enveloping, with effects coming from infront, to the sides, behind and even above with crystal clear clarity. There were no spots in the soundstage or presentation that felt empty or hollow, it was presented as a whole which added to the immersion and naturalness of the sound.
  Backgrounds for the notes was deep and silent, the most dynamic system I have ever heard, period. The DAC had so much range and the speakers were able to keep up with the transients with ease. During big orchestral pieces it could go from the quietest pianissimo to the loudest fortissimo in an instant effortlessly, no harshness, no stain or clipping.
The quietness of the background also made the sound so much more coherent and clear. No matter how busy or full the recording got the system never sounded congested or confused. Each performer had their own place in the soundstage, without blending into each other or overlapping in a muddled mess. At the same time it still felt like a whole piece musical piece, rather than a combination of multiple individual pieces as with some overly analytical pieces of gear I have heard.
  Impact and energy was also conveyed the best I had heard, the notes had plenty of weight to them, without artificially dragging out the decay or boosting the sound throughout the presence region. Violins and strings felt alive, drums had depth and energy to them. It could handle quiet female vocal or acoustic pieces with delicacy and finesse while conveying rock and metal with every ounce of speed and aggression it was recorded with.
  Tonally I'd say the system was neutral, no one part of the frequency range stood out to me more than the others. It never sounded bright, the midrange was neither recessed or forward. The bass was extended and impactful without sounding boomy, bloomed or boosted. It handled everything equally well, which I feel comes down to the DAC being so transparent and dynamic and the speakers being of a sealed design with the drivers and inbuilt amplifiers being perfectly paired. Some speakers I've heard use a ported design to get more impact and weight,  or to add more musicality. This always led to one part of the frequency standing out more than the rest and caused a slight shift in the soundstage making minute gaps in it. Or messing with the transparency of the music by drawing out the decay. I encountered none of that during my listening.
  Now the most important part. Musical enjoyment! I can say with complete and utter certainty that I thoroughly enjoyed each and every second of my listening, I got entirely drawn into the sound, smiling ear to ear wanting nothing more that to continue listening. In fact the only thing that alerted me to the passing time and what brought the session to an unfortunate end was my laptop going flat!
 
  I can say hearing that system was the best sonic experience I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. It was the most accurate, musical and natural thing I had heard. I only wish I could've heard the system with a dedicated source, Shunyata for the power and some DHC interconnects to bring out the full potential!
  Now I will say; the system was unfamiliar to me so it's hard to pinpoint what piece of the equipment specifically led to the final sound. But from my experiences it takes an incredibly resolving yet musical DAC to produce that type of sound coupled with completely transparent speakers or headphones with absolute control over their drivers to convey the energy and scale being fed to it form the rest of the system. Of which the Select DAC and SGR MT3.2's certainly had.
 
  I hope you enjoyed my write up and hopefully found it useful. I would have liked to write more about the sound, but it was so perfect and ahead of what I had previously heard that it's hard to put into words or have anything to compare it to. And so I will end this tale here, though if you have any questions or queries feel free to drop me a PM. Hopefully the above didn't contain too many spelling mistakes or turn into a complete grammatical mess.
 
Cheers
-Matt
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 9:15 AM Post #463 of 740
Great write up Matt, the pairing sounds fantastic!
 
As you say, I wonder what a better source would do to this. Top server or Signature I2S transport.
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 9:23 AM Post #464 of 740
  Great write up Matt, the pairing sounds fantastic!
 
As you say, I wonder what a better source would do to this. Top server or Signature I2S transport.

 
Seeing the implementation benefits of I2S I'd be tipping for the Signature PROI2S Transport, especially seeing as it's also by MSB and hopefully voiced to suit. Though the Network Renderer that they're currently working on seems promising as well, especially with it working in with Roon.
 
Dec 13, 2015 at 9:27 AM Post #465 of 740
   
Seeing the implementation benefits of I2S I'd be tipping for the Signature PROI2S Transport, especially seeing as it's also by MSB and hopefully voiced to suit. Though the Network Renderer that they're currently working on seems promising as well, especially with it working in with Roon.


Yes, the Network Renderer has huge potential. Waiting for that myself to test the Analog DAC with.
 

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