[Delayeed]

  Having mixed with both, I can say the Nighthawk didn't exaggerate or alter how the recordings sounds but the Ether did. The Nighthawk also has much less distortion, and even lower distortion than the already super low Elear. The Nighthawk was also more resolving than the Ether and Ether C bringing out those micro details better where as the Ether blurs those finer details. The thing with the Nighthawk is the cups do have a reverb so they can sound a little different in that aspect but the actual frequency response is fairly balanced on the NH.
 
The Ether drops off too quick in the bass and also lacked bass detail and definition and this is from a Gumby + every amp I tried them with like the Lyr, mol2. If the Flow can fix that to a degree and was cheaper It would be a contender for sure. The latest measurements from Tyll didn't look good in terms of bass extension.
 
 I still think the Alpha dog is the most resolving headphone that has come out of dans lab. 

Maybe the Ethers seem lacking in bass detail because the Nighthawks are are dark headphones with boosted bass-midbass.
Same as Alpha Dogs which I had to sell almost instantly lol Way bassy and lacking presence with weird soundstage. (The speed of them I think though is out of this world) um anyway I think both Ethers are more competent than the nighthawks in overall neutrality and detail, but they are a tad bass light.

 

[Delayeed]

  Poor bass is poor bass. The Nighthawk is flat down to 10hz in a linear fashion the Ether rolls off way before then kind of like the HE-400S. It can't resolving my own mix very well in the bass where as the Nighthawks, LCD-2 and HE-1000 have no problem doing. The Nighthawk has the best bass detail, lowest distortion over all of the headphones I've heard to date. When I compared the HD650 to the Ether on the Gumby and Lyr the HD650 was superior in resolution and even had better bass impact. 
 
The Alpha dogs actually have pretty neutral bass to maybe you are just used to bass light headphones like the HD800, The Alpha dogs are really an excellent bargain, better than the Ether C IMO. I really hope the flow cna bring back that resolution and hit low in al ienar fashion. Sadly the problem with planars is they don't have the bass impact of a dynamic headphone but they can be more linear down to the depth if the drivers allows it.

Could be since my first hifi headphones were HD598s lol.

Good to hear someone else find a problem with planars too. They have so clean detail and what not but they can't kick you in the balls like a good dynamic headphone can. If the Flows get the bass and dynamics up there without messing too much with the overrall signature It's going to be real awesome times...

 

[Stillhart]

  Poor bass is poor bass. The Nighthawk is flat down to 10hz in a linear fashion the Ether rolls off way before then kind of like the HE-400S. It can't resolving my own mix very well in the bass where as the Nighthawks, LCD-2 and HE-1000 have no problem doing. The Nighthawk has the best bass detail, lowest distortion over all of the headphones I've heard to date. When I compared the HD650 to the Ether on the Gumby and Lyr the HD650 was superior in resolution and even had better bass impact. 
 
Just for the record the Nighthawk isn't dark, it's treble goes to the last octave and stays in line with what many consider neutral. It does have some internal cup reverb though. 
 
The Alpha dogs actually have pretty neutral bass to maybe you are just used to bass light headphones like the HD800, The Alpha dogs are really an excellent bargain, better than the Ether C IMO. I really hope the flow can bring back that resolution and hit low in a linear fashion. Sadly the problem with planars is they don't have the bass impact of a dynamic headphone but they can be more linear down to the depth if the drivers are large enough and are well made.

 

[GrumbleFish]

   
+1 on the Kenzie and fantastic synergy with the Ethers. 

@MattTCG @Stillhart I would really love some more exposition here. I'm looking to get an amp to feed my Mojo to. I was already going to ask @Stillhart about the Questyle 600i that was showing in the new Ether Flow C picture that was posted.
 
Does this amp play in the same league as the Questyle 800 stack that you have been using? How about compared to your Schiit equipment? Any comparisons of the Kenzie and the Questyle 600?
 
I've owned the Ether, and currently own the Ether C, and have the Ether Flow on order. I'm hoping that something in the Kenzie's price range is a significant improvement in authority and weight over the Mojo by itself, especially with people considering the Kenzie to be a "good value." For the record, I love my Mojo, and think it is fantastic with both current (non-Flow) Ethers. I am really looking for more weight to the sound, if that makes sense. 

 

[m8o]

I will add to the portable amp solution... that I have the Grace M9xx and original Ether.

One day I was feeding a USB stream from my Note 3 phone to the M9xx, listening to the Ether, quite loud. I had a 2A battery pack connected to the M9xx. But it was only a 1/2 an hour or more later that I realized the battery pack was off (it does not have an auto on).

So basically my phone alone was powering the M9xx along with the music stream, driving the Ether quite sufficiently for these affected aging ears who likes to listen to music loudly. Unless I hear otherwise I expect the Flow to have near if not completely identical efficiency.

So I'd say the M9xx should be considered a great quality portable solution too; powered by USB alone or supplamented with a 2A battery pack or quality wallwart (2A power required if you feed it with an optical signal as I do these days from my Opus #1.)

 

[supabayes]

Having compared to Mojo to a lot of good equipment, you wont get more full without coloration. The Mojo is extended at both ends with a nice full and rich sound without adding any bloat. I'd personally stick with it as I've yet to find anything as rich and engaging emotionally as the Mojo.

+1 for Mojo. 

 

[tretneo]

Having compared to Mojo to a lot of good equipment, you wont get more full without coloration. The Mojo is extended at both ends with a nice full and rich sound without adding any bloat. I'd personally stick with it as I've yet to find anything as rich and engaging emotionally as the Mojo.

 
+1 Mojo is excellent. Sold off my desktop rig and use the Mojo full time.

 

[Stillhart]

  @MattTCG @Stillhart I would really love some more exposition here. I'm looking to get an amp to feed my Mojo to. I was already going to ask @Stillhart about the Questyle 600i that was showing in the new Ether Flow C picture that was posted.
 
Does this amp play in the same league as the Questyle 800 stack that you have been using? How about compared to your Schiit equipment? Any comparisons of the Kenzie and the Questyle 600?
 
I've owned the Ether, and currently own the Ether C, and have the Ether Flow on order. I'm hoping that something in the Kenzie's price range is a significant improvement in authority and weight over the Mojo by itself, especially with people considering the Kenzie to be a "good value." For the record, I love my Mojo, and think it is fantastic with both current (non-Flow) Ethers. I am really looking for more weight to the sound, if that makes sense. 

 
The Kenzie and Mogwai (like $200 more and more power) are a bit colored, but in a way that I found quite enjoyable with both Flows.  It was bassy and thick; the Mogwai with the Ether C Flow and some bassy EDM was really awesome.  
 
The CMA600i is a DAC/Amp combo.  I haven't yet tried it as just an amp or just a DAC so I can't speak to how well the amp performs on its own.  As a combo unit, my initial impressions are that it's a pretty friggin good sounding unit for the price.  Ad yes, the Ether C Flow does well with it.
 
As to whether it'll be an improvement over the Mojo, I'd guess that the tube amps will give you a different sound with more body and color.  Whether you find that to be a "significant improvement" is going to be subjective to you.

 

[GrumbleFish]

   
The Kenzie and Mogwai (like $200 more and more power) are a bit colored, but in a way that I found quite enjoyable with both Flows.  It was bassy and thick; the Mogwai with the Ether C Flow and some bassy EDM was really awesome.  
 
The CMA600i is a DAC/Amp combo.  I haven't yet tried it as just an amp or just a DAC so I can't speak to how well the amp performs on its own.  As a combo unit, my initial impressions are that it's a pretty friggin good sounding unit for the price.  Ad yes, the Ether C Flow does well with it.
 
As to whether it'll be an improvement over the Mojo, I'd guess that the tube amps will give you a different sound with more body and color.  Whether you find that to be a "significant improvement" is going to be subjective to you.

Thanks! Certainly the subjectivity debate is always there. I *really* wish I could try the Questyle units and the AmpsandSound stuff in person. Last meet I was at didn't have either. I used to have a CDM, which I know you have, and didn't find it to be much improvement over the Mojo when feeding the Mojo into the amp section of the CDM. I think the fact that it's a fairly smooth hybrid tube amp limited a lot of the pure tube amp feel I was hoping to get. How do you like the Questyle and the Kenzie/Mogwai compared to the CDM? (sorry for the 20 questions here, just you have experience with a lot of similar equipment) 
 
Also, should be noted that all my impressions here are with Ether (C). 

 

[MattTCG]

  Yeah I've yet to find a planar that has balls. The LCD-2 has fantastic extension, ruler flat down to the bass but it's impact is weak. I don't think they can produce the impact of a good dynamic due to their design. I do get reasonably good detail form the LCD-2 and HE-1000 but compared to the HD800 they can't pull pout those micro details. I find planars can sound a bit dirty, like the Nighthawk and HD800 has a clean background but the LCD-2, LCD-3, HE560 and HE-1000 and Ethers all have a congestion that I can't explain other than a dirty background as opposed to the cleaner HD800, Nighthawk, TH900. 
 
I do enjoy the planar offerings though, the HE-500 is my fav planar headphone. I think planars have just taken off so well with consumers, many buying into the whole speed thing when in reality a good dynamic is faster, more resolving than a good planar. Planars also get a lot of hate on higher end audio forums but on more consumer forums they are well received. I'm in the middle, I like them but I see their flaws. 
 
My biggest issue with the latest planars is their resolving capabilities and their ridiculously high price. The Nighthawk I have to praise because with it's low distortion and extension at both ends and high resolution it's a bargain when you factor in they could easily roll the bass off and boost the treble and it would sale at 1k easily.

 
I don't know exactly how to describe what you've written, exept to say that it's a gross exaggeration of the truth. If you love your Nighthawk, that's perfectly fine of course. Please get on the the NH appreciation thread and praise them to your heart is content. BUT...I would appreciate that you not continue to go on and on about how clean and resolving the NH is compared to an Ether or just about any planar for that matter. That's completely false information. 
 
IMHO the NH is super warm and syrupy to the point of down right gooey. Highly resolving? I would never describe the NH as a resolving headphone compared to any other headphone much less a good clean planar. I wouldn't go as far as to say the NH is a fart canon, but compared to something like the Ether I might use just such an exaggeration to make a point. 
 
But hey, if bass is your thing and you are not a detail nut then I can see where you'd like something like the NH. It certainly has plenty of punchy bass and mid bass. Ether has incredibly low distortion. As does the hd800 which is one reason both these headphones respond so well to EQ. The NH however did not respond well in my attempts to improve it with EQ. 

 

[Stillhart]

  Thanks! Certainly the subjectivity debate is always there. I *really* wish I could try the Questyle units and the AmpsandSound stuff in person. Last meet I was at didn't have either. I used to have a CDM, which I know you have, and didn't find it to be much improvement over the Mojo when feeding the Mojo into the amp section of the CDM. I think the fact that it's a fairly smooth hybrid tube amp limited a lot of the pure tube amp feel I was hoping to get. How do you like the Questyle and the Kenzie/Mogwai compared to the CDM? (sorry for the 20 questions here, just you have experience with a lot of similar equipment) 
 
Also, should be noted that all my impressions here are with Ether (C). 

 
So I actually don't have a CDM.  As much as I like it, I don't travel enough to validate that kind of money on a portable unit.  
 
It sounds to me like you'd enjoy the coloration from the Ampsandsounds units.  Questyle's stuff is very clean and dry and I doubt it'd add much to your Mojo.  If you're considering the Mogwai or Kenzie, I've heard the DECware Taboo is also a great amp in the same vein sonically (and same price range).

 

[GrumbleFish]

   
So I actually don't have a CDM.  As much as I like it, I don't travel enough to validate that kind of money on a portable unit.  
 
It sounds to me like you'd enjoy the coloration from the Ampsandsounds units.  Questyle's stuff is very clean and dry and I doubt it'd add much to your Mojo.  If you're considering the Mogwai or Kenzie, I've heard the DECware Taboo is also a great amp in the same vein sonically (and same price range).

Thanks again. I do appreciate your thoughts. Maybe I can find someone who has one of these to demo. 

 

[Beagle]

   
Full upgrade*:  $499.99 + shipping

1. Replace both drivers**
2. Add “FLOW” slider to headband
3. Certificate of authenticity and SN registry entry
4. Replace ear pads
5. Replace ear cups or grills
6. Convert open to closed and vice-versa (optional)
7. Flow box

 

 
Hey, this is music to my eyes! I think I'll have my Ether open converted to a Flow closed. For $499, it's a no-brainer. Sure beats having to shell out another $1700!
 
Thanks Dan, for making this available to original Ether purchasers.

 

[supabayes]

Yeah I've yet to find a planar that has balls. The LCD-2 has fantastic extension, ruler flat down to the bass but it's impact is weak. I don't think they can produce the impact of a good dynamic due to their design. I do get reasonably good detail form the LCD-2 and HE-1000 but compared to the HD800 they can't pull pout those micro details. I find planars can sound a bit dirty, like the Nighthawk and HD800 has a clean background but the LCD-2, LCD-3, HE560 and HE-1000 and Ethers all have a congestion that I can't explain other than a dirty background as opposed to the cleaner HD800, Nighthawk, TH900. 

I do enjoy the planar offerings though, the HE-500 is my fav planar headphone. I think planars have just taken off so well with consumers, many buying into the whole speed thing when in reality a good dynamic is faster, more resolving than a good planar. Planars also get a lot of hate on higher end audio forums but on more consumer forums they are well received. I'm in the middle, I like them but I see their flaws. 

My biggest issue with the latest planars is their resolving capabilities and their ridiculously high price. The Nighthawk I have to praise because with it's low distortion and extension at both ends and high resolution it's a bargain when you factor in they could easily roll the bass off and boost the treble and it would sale at 1k easily.

My HE1000 can definitely put out as much micro detail as HD800S and greater than the NH. NH subbass is stronger than HE1000 but I won't say that it is better since I am not a bass head. I like my NH for its different tuning than regular high end headphones but it is not a better phone than the planars you named imho.

 

[buke9]

I don't know exactly how to describe what you've written, exept to say that it's a gross exaggeration of the truth. If you love your Nighthawk, that's perfectly fine of course. Please get on the the NH appreciation thread and praise them to your heart is content. BUT...I would appreciate that you not continue to go on and on about how clean and resolving the NH is compared to an Ether or just about any planar for that matter. That's completely false information. 

IMHO the NH is super warm and syrupy to the point of down right gooey. Highly resolving? I would never describe the NH as a resolving headphone compared to any other headphone much less a good clean planar. I wouldn't go as far as to say the NH is a fart canon, but compared to something like the Ether I might use just such an exaggeration to make a point. 

But hey, if bass is your thing and you are not a detail nut then I can see where you'd like something like the NH. It certainly has plenty of punchy bass and mid bass. Ether has incredibly low distortion. As does the hd800 which is one reason both these headphones respond so well to EQ. The NH however did not respond well in my attempts to improve it with EQ. 

Yo Matts' getting fired up; ) I would have to agree on most of what you said. The Nighthawks were one on the cans I wanted to listen to when I went to CanJam and I was less than impressed coming from my C's . Dark was the first thing that came to my mind. Highly resolving didn't . If they like them more power to them . I just don't get why others have to come on other threads and be dissing stuff they don't like or have.