[mandrake50]

I haven't heard the 560 in a couple years, but I do remember how they sound. I just wouldn't be able to do any detailed comparison.


HE-560 will have a dip around 2khz that AFO sorta has, but not as bad.

HE-560 will have a lot more emphasis around 4-6khz than AFO giving it more snappiness.

These two things are what makes some, including me, to find the 560 sound lean to perhaps even thin. I have to withhold comment on the AFO until I actually hear them. So far, from the descriptions, the AFO does not sound like this. Personally I like listening to the Aeon closed more than either of my 560s. One of which has 90% of the Jerg mods done to it. This is not about technicalities or something as relative as sound field, it is about tonality. Which, for 95% of the listening that I get to do, has far more impact on my audio pleasure than the rest of it.

I am real curious as to what people think about the bass reproduction on the open versus the closed. I read some reviews that claimed the AFC was somewhat lacking in bass. I think it is pretty balanced in that regard. I have some Jazz with some serious bass, including upright bass, and the AFC makes that instrument sound quite natural. I can hear/feel the lowest fundamentals in organ concertos. So, if the open does nearly as well, I think I can be happy with it.

BTW, I do recognize the differences in the AFC versus some headphones that are known for being bass head cans. But for most of my listening I prefer something on the order of the AFC.

 

[Schwibbles]

So if you could choose one, would it be AFC or AFO? Regardless of isolation

I really enjoy both. If isolation wasn't a factor, I don't know if I could choose just one unless I had something better to replace the other one with.
If isolation was a factor, I'd probably keep the closed back because they're what I bring to work; they're the only closed back headphone I have that I really like. I have other open-back headphones that I enjoy that I could listen to instead of the Aeon Open. To be clear, I'm not going to get rid of the AFO, but if I had to choose one of them to go, it'd be that.

A comment on two things, and not to argue, just to add a bit of perspective. Of course, your early impressions are not in question at all, perhaps just the causes.

I don't find the BL to be warm, at least not enough so to cause my impressions of a set of phones to tend warm if they are not. The BL is slightly warmer than something like the HA-2SE (though I only have the original Ha-2, so that may have changed somewhat). I find the BL to be pretty neutral . But that just gives me perspective in interpreting your description.

As the roll off under 100 hz. If you look at the entire graph, response at 20 hz is about the same as it is at 1K. So there is a broad area for response that is elevated from around 30 to 400 hz. Anyway, slam and impact are the product of bass dynamics, or speed. Not necessarily frequency response. Of course if the response is down too much, dynamics will not be there because that can't be heard. I just don't think that ... based on the one graph, which Dan mentioned was the result of a hastily done set of tests in a relatively noisy environment.

Now way to dispute what you are perceiving, but I do question the conclusions that are drawn about the reasons that you mention for what you are hearing.

I am still fairly new to this hobby and am still working on my terminology and working on my listening skills. I am very certain what I perceive is similar to what others are, but I may get my terms mixed up. I suppose slam and impact may not be the right words to use there. How would you describe what impact and slam are? To me, impact makes me think of the hit; the initial response. Slam makes me thing of the lingering sound; can the headphone keep that force or that oomph up from the impact.

What I hear when using the Oppo lines up pretty well with that graph. If I turn the volume up a little past where I normally listen, it sounds as though the sub bass has a little bit more presence in the mix; maybe a couple dB higher than the graph shows it to be.

To me, the BL comes across as warmer than the HA-2SE, xDuoo XD-05, FiiO Q1 (MK1), Apple's lightning headphone adapter, and my computer output. I suppose that's why I classify it as warm. It certainly makes a noticeable difference when listening to the AFC or AFO. It's the main reason why I really love it with the AFC. With the AFO, the small lull in the upper midrange at 3k-4k is more prevalent when I use the BL because of the added warmth as opposed to another amp. I'm just saying the AFO sound more neutral with something like the Oppo or xDuoo as opposed to the BL.

 

[thighmaster69]

I haven't heard the 560 in a couple years, but I do remember how they sound. I just wouldn't be able to do any detailed comparison.

HE-560 will have more emphasis on low bass. Its bass is very linear with no emphasis at the mid or upper bass, but still plenty full there.

HE-560 will have a dip around 2khz that AFO sorta has, but not as bad.

HE-560 will have a lot more emphasis around 4-6khz than AFO giving it more snappiness.

HE-560 has a larger soundstage.

I like the suspension strap of the HE-560 more as it is larger and distributes weight better. I never had a hotspot with the HE-560, but with either version of the Aeon, I will get a small warm spot over time. HE-560's earpads are big enough to surround your ear, but I like the ergonomically shaped pads of the Aeons better.

Your description of the 560s seems to match what I remember when I demoed them - roll off is nonexistent and they sounded resolving and fast. From what I’m gathering, it sounds to me that the AFO in comparison has a more “dynamic” sound signature, but with all the benefits of a planar

What I’m interested in is why they chose to put the magnet array on the inside, instead of an outside. My guess is that it was more practical with the closed model and they didn’t want to reengineer a whole driver. I’m wondering if that has something to do with your soundstage observations, since hifimans don’t have anything between the driver and the ear.

 

[TMRaven]

I attribute the smaller sound stage of the AFO compared to the HE-560 to two things:

HE-560 is by all means completely open. There is minimal damping to it, and it is very sensitive to anything placed outside its grills. Aeon Open has a more aggressive damping approach, and is less sensitive to things outside its grills. I noticed a similar quality to the Oppo PM1 when I compared it to the HE-560 a while back. HE-560 is very close to being critically damped by just the air around it, but its treble is still not the most controlled.

The frequency response plays a big roll in perceived soundstage in my experience. Headphones with dips around 2k do tend to sound less full, but the soundstage also tends to deepen in a psycho-acoustic way. Aeon is more full in this area, so harmonics are more in your face by comparison.

HD800 is a prime example of this, whose midrange is a very linear rolloff from 400hz down to 2-4khz, then it shoots back up towards 5-6k.




On another note, upon further listening, I am finding a small peak around 8-10khz in the AFO that is attributing to some SH-ST sibilances on recordings. I'm gonna try the 1-notched white felt inserts again to see how they handle that peak.

 

[mandrake50]

I really enjoy both. If isolation wasn't a factor, I don't know if I could choose just one unless I had something better to replace the other one with.


I am still fairly new to this hobby and am still working on my terminology and working on my listening skills. I am very certain what I perceive is similar to what others are, but I may get my terms mixed up. I suppose slam and impact may not be the right words to use there. How would you describe what impact and slam are? To me, impact makes me think of the hit; the initial response. Slam makes me thing of the lingering sound; can the headphone keep that force or that oomph up from the impact.

The problem with many terms that we use to try to describe what we are hearing is that they don't have real definitions. There is a semi agreement among many of what they mean, but hard universally agreed upon definitions don't exist.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-p...escribe-sonic-signatures.546714/#post-7372774

"The point of this post is simple--there is no standard in how people are describing sonic signatures, so it's very confusing and contradictory when people either don't really understand how to properly describe audio characteristics, or people use the same word to describe very different things. This makes all the posts, reviews, debates...etc very chaotic and hard to reach any sort of real understanding between members."

This combined with the perception of audio being highly personal, means it is hard to be wrong... or right.

Here is something to look at, but it is a bit old and admittedly incomplete.
https://www.head-fi.org/articles/glossary-of-terms.13562/

This is an interesting "description":
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-DtrcJ4Pacyb/learn/homeaudio/introguideexcerpt.html

A system or component that has excellent bass dynamics will provide a sense of sudden impact and explosive power. Bass drum will jump out of the presentation with startling power. The dynamic envelope of acoustic or electric bass is accurately conveyed, allowing the music full rhythmic expression. We call these components punchy, and use the terms impact and slam to describe good bass dynamics.

Doing quite a bit of searching it seems that Punch is derived from bass response. AND you don't need 20 hertz. 50 to 60, perhaps.

Slam, 100 to 400 Hz.

Dynamic more speed of attack and accurate sustain (decay).

Searching the internet.., there are many, many threads asking for definitions of these. There are just as many definitions.

Going by the referenced graph only, one would think that the AFO would likely have good slam. Again, FR graphs are not usually a reliable way for me to predict what a given set of headphones will sound like on my head.

Sorry for the digression.

As to the BL, I guess it is where you are coming from.

 

[Schwibbles]

The problem with many terms that we use to try to describe what we are hearing is that they don't have real definitions. There is a semi agreement among many of what they mean, but hard universally agreed upon definitions don't exist.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-p...escribe-sonic-signatures.546714/#post-7372774

"The point of this post is simple--there is no standard in how people are describing sonic signatures, so it's very confusing and contradictory when people either don't really understand how to properly describe audio characteristics, or people use the same word to describe very different things. This makes all the posts, reviews, debates...etc very chaotic and hard to reach any sort of real understanding between members."

This combined with the perception of audio being highly personal, means it is hard to be wrong... or right.

Here is something to look at, but it is a bit old and admittedly incomplete.
https://www.head-fi.org/articles/glossary-of-terms.13562/

This is an interesting "description":
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-DtrcJ4Pacyb/learn/homeaudio/introguideexcerpt.html

A system or component that has excellent bass dynamics will provide a sense of sudden impact and explosive power. Bass drum will jump out of the presentation with startling power. The dynamic envelope of acoustic or electric bass is accurately conveyed, allowing the music full rhythmic expression. We call these components punchy, and use the terms impact and slam to describe good bass dynamics.

Doing quite a bit of searching it seems that Punch is derived from bass response. AND you don't need 20 hertz. 50 to 60, perhaps.

Slam, 100 to 400 Hz.

Dynamic more speed of attack and accurate sustain (decay).

Searching the internet.., there are many, many threads asking for definitions of these. There are just as many definitions.

Going by the referenced graph only, one would think that the AFO would likely have good slam. Again, FR graphs are not usually a reliable way for me to predict what a given set of headphones will sound like on my head.

Sorry for the digression.

As to the BL, I guess it is where you are coming from.

Yeah I apologize for being off topic.

Thank you for reference links and your descriptions; I'll check those out. I've had a hard time finding credible sources for information because, like you said, no one can seem to agree on anything haha

 

[bronco1015]

I am going to attribute the warmth to the iDSD BL which pairs beautifully with the AFC because it warms up the sound a little. When paired with the AFO, it makes it a little warm for my tastes. For me, the AFO seems to pair better with a more neutral amp that is a little cooler than the iDSD. I found that I really, really enjoy the AFO with the HA-2SE. The only downside to the Oppo is that the AFO definitely exposes the ESS glare which I don't mind with many headphones.
In my case, a lot of the warmth could be attributed to the iDSD but only time will tell if it will change with burn in.


I rarely bother with the bass switch on the Oppo as I really dislike it. The bass boost creeps up into the lower mids instead of just the bass; I doubt it would sound good to me with the AFO. When I have tried it in the past with other headphones, I didn't notice a change in the treble.
Maybe what you're hearing is more bass, which in turn makes the treble sound less forward because it doesn't stick out above everything as much.

Maybe a bit too forward isn't the right way to put it. It's not overwhelming or sibilant. I think it's more of the ESS glare that comes through on the AFO. It just makes the treble sound a little "off".


I'm going to agree that the HD650 have never sounded dark to me. I disagree in that I believe they do sound fairly warm to me. I think it's remarkable how similarly they sound to the HD600 when people tend to describe them like they're miles apart.


Right out of the box, the bass extension is very good. Slam and impact are not the strongest just because the frequency response starts to decline below 100HZ. See this post by MrSpeakers on page 3.

I agree about the bass switch, I haven't been using it with the AFO or at all for the most part, was looking for a suggestion to help bring the prevalence of the treble down for you. I'd say your description of what it does is pretty accurate also. p.S. I think I now hear what you mean about the treble. Headphones were burning in all weekend and I just put them on after getting home from work. To me at higher levels with the HA-2SE the treble is almost overwhelming and i'd say a bit off as well. My initial post was after 2 hours or so of listening on fri and Sat. That said this was at higher levels than i'd normally listen at consistently, these are fantastic!

 

[mrspeakers]

I have been trying out the new Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid with the AEONs, and it's a great pairing. If anyone is looking for an affordable tube amp this gets high recommendations from us. It is lacking a bit in soundstage and clarity compared to the higher-end Cavalli gear, but at the price its a true value.

 

[HeadStrong]

I have been trying out the new Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid with the AEONs, and it's a great pairing. If anyone is looking for an affordable tube amp this gets high recommendations from us. It is lacking a bit in soundstage and clarity compared to the higher-end Cavalli gear, but at the price its a true value.

Have you also tried pairing with the iFi iCAN Pro?

 

[mrspeakers]

Have you also tried pairing with the iFi iCAN Pro?

Sorry, I haven't. I heard it with the ETHER Flows and enjoyed it, I'm also confident it has plenty of power so technically one would expect a decent pairing. The iDSD BL was a great pairing, very impressive and dynamic...

 

[SHAMuuu]

Sorry, I haven't. I heard it with the ETHER Flows and enjoyed it, I'm also confident it has plenty of power so technically one would expect a decent pairing. The iDSD BL was a great pairing, very impressive and dynamic...

@mrspeakers

How did it compare to this magical can?

no offense to Z Reviews, or Zeos (I still watch his reviews and enjoy them), but i fell victim to this highly recommended, ridiculous looking headphone lol. Can't believe Dan had em on too!

 

[MattTCG]

^^ Um...those aren't headphones. Those are makeshift earplugs used by the KGB in the late 50's.

 

[keeferdog]

@mrspeakers

How did it compare to this magical can?



no offense to Z Reviews, or Zeos (I still watch his reviews and enjoy them), but i fell victim to this highly recommended, ridiculous looking headphone lol. Can't believe Dan had em on too!

Hey -

Those are from my “air hockey” table.....Black painted hockey-puck paddles

 

[TSAVAlan]

Just a modded Phillips shp9500 with 3d printed cups and set of different pads on em. True end game!

Friend brought in those pair last year at a Source event, asked Dan to put em on and take a pic which he obliged.

@mrspeakers

How did it compare to this magical can?



no offense to Z Reviews, or Zeos (I still watch his reviews and enjoy them), but i fell victim to this highly recommended, ridiculous looking headphone lol. Can't believe Dan had em on too!

 

[SHAMuuu]

Just a modded Phillips shp9500 with 3d printed cups and set of different pads on em. True end game!

Friend brought in those pair last year at a Source event, asked Dan to put em on and take a pic which he obliged.

An end game for sure. What some might not know is that when the Z Reviews guy got the 9500, he went all crazy, then he got the Mr. Speakers Alpha Pads and slapped them on, and even more crazy, then those bewb cups, and the hype on these.

So that has some Mr Speakers genes in the original one with ModHouseAudio cups.

The Aeon flow is great, but those TTShips are the Funky Pups.