Most Natural Sounding 701/2 or the 650?
Jun 29, 2009 at 8:02 AM Post #61 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Being able to sound like a PA system is not natural, it's just being able to sound like a PA system.

I think the only really way to measure naturalness is in reproducing un-amplified sound.



I guess I'll stop plugging in my guitar since I want a more natural sound.
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By this logic, I guess you could never claim to hear a "natural" sound from a recording with amplified instruments. Good luck with that.
 
Jun 29, 2009 at 8:12 AM Post #63 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yeah, exactly. There's nothing natural about the sound of an electric guitar. That shouldn't be a revelation to a guitarist.


Hmmm... no fooling? I guess you own a lot of albums with instruments that aren't AMPLIFIED through the use of a microphone and processed in a recording studio.
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Jun 29, 2009 at 8:42 AM Post #66 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintalfonzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hmmm... no fooling? I guess you own a lot of albums with instruments that aren't AMPLIFIED through the use of a microphone and processed in a recording studio.
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What does this have to do with an electric guitar?

Microphones don't amplify instruments btw.

Besides those obvious remarks, an electric guitar is not an acoustic guitar that has been amplified. When you want to do that you record the acoustic with a mic and then play it back.

Try recording your electric un-amped with a mic and playing it back. Doesn't sound the same as plugged into an amplifier right?
 
Jun 29, 2009 at 8:51 AM Post #67 of 114
The sound waves coming from the vibrating membrane in a guitar amplifier are just as "natural" an acoustic phenomena as the sound waves coming from any other physical source. Once mic'd and recorded all of that wonderful timbral information can be "unnaturally" colored/distorted by audio reproduction sources and transducers just as much as a recorded "acoustic" instrument.

Think of the guitar amplifier as part of the physical instrument, if you're having trouble with this, grampa.
 
Jun 29, 2009 at 8:56 AM Post #69 of 114
I can't believe you're an "engineering student" and you're having trouble with that concept.

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Jun 29, 2009 at 9:12 AM Post #70 of 114
Let's forget about reproduction for a moment. The magnetic strings of an electrical guitar induce a voltage in coil that has inductive and capacitive properties, the voltage is then amplifier 50X and played through a speaker.

Whether that is a natural sound is perhaps arguable, but a lot of people myself included would say no. It's no more natural than a sound I make by writing a math equation that models the flux through an inductor with the output being sent as a voltage to speakers.

No need for tears, this is just my opinion. I you want to believe the sound from your electric guitar is as natural as human voice that's your call.

Btw, you're older than me grampa
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Jun 29, 2009 at 9:30 AM Post #72 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by jlaakso /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have no idea what you are talking about when you say magnetic strings and coils in electric guitar
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I agree with you that you have no idea. rds explained to you how the electric guitar works. Save word "troll" for better occasions.
 
Jun 29, 2009 at 9:37 AM Post #73 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I agree with you that you have no idea. rds explained to you how the electric guitar works. Save word "troll" for better occasions.


Then I must apologise. I just didn't understand what are the magnetic strings that induce voltage. Always thought electric guitar had mics
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Jun 29, 2009 at 9:39 AM Post #74 of 114
Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Let's forget about reproduction for a moment. The magnetic strings of an electrical guitar induce a voltage in coil that has inductive and capacitive properties, the voltage is then amplifier 50X and played through a speaker.

Whether that is a natural sound is perhaps arguable, but a lot of people myself included would say no. It's no more natural than a sound I make by writing a math equation that models the flux through an inductor with the output being sent as a voltage to speakers.



"Whether that is a natural sound is perhaps arguable" . . . This we agree on. But in the context of this thread (and, I'd argue, this forum) "natural" reproduction I take to mean reproducing the timbral information of a recorded source.

Beyond that (as in, when speaking of natural sources of recorded sound), the argument collapses into how conservatively you define "natural," and that argument is going to get silly fast (and it has no relevance whatsoever to the issue at hand, which whether you like it or not, is sound reproduction).

Every musical instrument, from a gourd to an Elektron Machinedrum is technology, and there's a few levels of artifice to get from a gourd to what you are thinking of as an "acoustic instrument."

So your argument is that anytime an electric impulse is involved in the sound creation stage, it's not a "natural" source. Great, glad that's been established. It has no bearing whatsoever on whether reproduction technology is "natural," that is, "true" to the recorded source.

Quote:

It's no more natural than a sound I make by writing a math equation that models the flux through an inductor with the output being sent as a voltage to speakers.


Would you like me to list a few hundred ways in which an electrical impulse generated by, and effected by, a finger manipulating a steel string is clearly distinguishable from that example? Because I can, but it's still not going to yield any useful discussion re: "natural."

Your example is a bit closer to plugging my guitar directly into my Apogee Duet and recording without mic'ing my amplifier, even though in my case there's still at core manipulation of a physical object. Again, this argument isn't especially illuminating. If you want to press, I can say, fine: a "natural instrument" is one which produces acoustic phenomenon (sound waves) at the end-stage (to be heard or recorded with a microphone). So if you were to record an impulse directly, through an I/O device without any acoustic element (sound waves) you could call that "unnatural." But it's still a purely semantic argument here, and not really worth the time to work out.

I suspect, probably without reason, that your resistance to this is based primarily on your musical preferences. So I apologize if you're not the type who would have rioted at the first performance of Le Sacre du Printemps because that bassoon was playing way too frigging high. (kidding, again).
 

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