[Roybenz]

I was really exited to try the conductor 3xgt after its amazing reviews.

I got to try the burson conductor 3x grand tourer at home, it makes a lot of noise from the fan and it got very warm compared to my 430had, it has more power, and I’m not sure if there was a tiny bit more bass but I think there was, a little sharper sounding than the moon, not going to keep the burson and don’t consider it an upgrade over the 430had.

I also got the 680D which has the mind 2 streamer and been comparing it with the internal dac of the 430had fed by usb from Roon core. It’s more natural and I prefer it over the internal dac of the 430had. But I was kind of hoping for a bigger difference, considering it being an 10k dac.

 

[jamesjames]

I mentioned in an earlier post that I thought the SPL Phonitor xe was in the same league as the 430HA, but perhaps a bit less refined. I've been using these amps for some time now, and flip-flopping on preferences. I'm confident they're both completely run-in, and my earlier impressions have evolved a little. For many years I've used HD800 and 800S phones - their strengths are well known. I think the 430HA is a great fit with these - although I now wonder how they compare with the Phonitor. I haven't measured this but guess the 430HA imparts a slightly different spectral tilt which is particularly good with the Sennheisers and also works nicely with the MySphere 3.2. The Phonitor has always seemed to give the lower mids more presence - which I think can create a less distant, more immediate impression.

The newer factor for me is the Focal Utopia, which I've also used for some time now, but which had initially seemed less engaging than the Senns through the 430HA. I'd always assumed this was due to what I hear as the Utopia's single failing - depth perspective. I've often seen it described as 'intimate', and I would agree it seemed two-dimensional - flat. But with the Phonitor, and particularly with its crossfeed circuit (which might be slightly better than the Moon's), I found the Utopia really opened up. The Focal/Phonitor combo seems strikingly good with timbre, air and space around acoustic instruments (which is what I listen to).

So, somewhat to my surprise, the Utopia has caused me to reappraise the Phonitor. And I'm now leaning slightly towards the Phonitor/Focal combo, when I've long had individual preferences for the Moon and the Senns. That said, the differences are subtle, and some days (with some music) the balance seems to shift again, and the Moon's highly structured presentation in terms of performance space and separation comes to the fore.

So there's more to be said I think for the Phonitor than I initially thought. I'm reminded how important combinations are for me when it comes to headphones.

 

[Roybenz]

I’m now a-b’ ing internal dac of the 430had with AURALiC Vega G2.1. Same as the moon 680D, I don’t get it. There is just a very small difference. Either there’s something wrong with me or the internal dac of 430had is just that good integrated. Was expecting a huge upgrade both with the 680D and the Vega g2.1.

Confused.

 

[jamesjames]

I’m now a-b’ ing internal dac of the 430had with AURALiC Vega G2.1. Same as the moon 680D, I don’t get it. There is just a very small difference. Either there’s something wrong with me or the internal dac of 430had is just that good integrated. Was expecting a huge upgrade both with the 680D and the Vega g2.1.

Confused.

I can think of several factors that might be influencing this. As I mentioned, I haven't heard the 680D (or the Vega for that matter) but have listened to a wide range of good modern hi-res DACs. My own impression is that they're generally excellent and that there's very little between them. They're so similar, in fact, that I think the potential for noise and loss in connections between components is now likely to be a much bigger deal. Integrated DACs often sound better I think for that reason. It's the combination that counts in the end - not just the specs of individual components. The specs on the 430HAD are spectacularly good - and by all accounts it performs spectacularly well. If standard PCM/DSD playback is the aim, and you like the 430 analogue section, I would guess the 430HAD is going to be hard to beat. My reason for preferring the Marantz SA10 as an outboard digital source for the 430HA is that I prefer up-sampled DSD playback from all digital inputs - not an option with many DACs. I've found that the benefits to me of this outboard DAC outweigh its costs - but I wasn't initially confident they would. And I wouldn't generally expect that result. I believe subtle differences between combinations at this level can make a big difference in terms of personal taste, but they're hard to predict.

 

[Roybenz]

I only have 44/96/192 Music from quobuz. Using Power filter with upgrade Power cable, heimdall usb cable. I just dont Get it. Was expecting a large change. This time ive used the hd800s and lcd4. Maybe a speaker setup is more capable to give the right change in sound and not headphones?

 

[jamesjames]

Well, I think headphones are generally more resolving than loudspeakers - at least below stratospheric cost levels (and possibly even there). So I think they're more likely to show up differences between DACs (or other components). I'm inclined to think you're likely to be getting a pretty good result with the 430HAD, and incremental improvements with other DACs (or amps) wouldn't be large. Changing phones (or loudspeakers) is a sure-fire way of getting a different sound - but not necessarily better.

 

[Roybenz]

You’re probably right. Couple of years ago i had the chord Qutest. I did hear a difference, but it was more like a different filter all togheter. The difference I hear when a-b now is less then the difference I can hear between the different filters on the Vega g 2.1. Guess the upgrade ghost is gone for now

 

[jamesjames]

You’re probably right. Couple of years ago i had the chord Qutest. I did hear a difference, but it was more like a different filter all togheter. The difference I hear when a-b now is less then the difference I can hear between the different filters on the Vega g 2.1. Guess the upgrade ghost is gone for now

In my experience the ghost comes back in due course! I'm sure experiences vary, but I've found the 'better' my system becomes, the longer it takes me to decide whether a change I've made is an improvement. And I've found the value of 'A/B ing' becomes more doubtful. I'm inclined to think, as the changes become more subtle, that there's more value in living with a change for a while, then changing back for a while. Aural memory is notoriously vague, but I think listening for periods of days or even weeks before swapping allows the listener to become accustomed to the character of the presentation, so that even quite subtle changes tend to jump out - because they're unexpected. I've often changed my mind completely about whether a change was good or bad after living with it for a while.

 

[Roybenz]

I am a little late to the hqplayer. Just installed and tested it now with 384k and it’s a great improvement over the regular 44 quobuz quality. I don’t know what settings is the best, would be glad if someone would share it.

Also wonder if the expensive dacs I’ve tried would have made a bigger difference if they were fed with bigger files from hqplayer?

 

[jamesjames]

I don't know anything about hqplayer, but I do think (genuine) higher-res files can show up differences between DACs that mightn't be evident with lower-res material. That said, I'm still inclined to think the differences between many good DACs are slight. I have in mind an experience some years ago, when I was able to compare DACs by dCS and Weiss. Both were excellent, and sufficiently adjustable to remove any differences between them. And I still prefer my Marantz (at much lower cost)!

EDIT - I've just realised the Marantz probably isn't actually any cheaper ... but I think it does sound different.

 

[Roybenz]

I have now also had the Chord TT2 for several days of testing in all configurations. The difference is still so small that i can’t tell them apart. It’s not an upgrade to the 430had. Even with tt2 as preamp and dac for 430had it didn’t make the susvara sound any better, other than having much more volume to go on. I reckon if I have to listen for 1-2 weeks to notice the differences when switching, then what’s the point ?

I think the internal dac of 430had is underestimated. Comparing it to 680D (made most difference) Vega g2.1 and Hugo TT2, it holds up extremely well. There are subtle differences, so small that I can’t tell them apart in blind test.

 

[jamesjames]

Have you thought about trying a different analogue stage? As I've said above, I think the 430HA is a great amp. But the Phonitor xe, for example, is also very good and I'm confident most people would agree it sounds quite different. To my ear, the Phonitor is more linear - and I'm coming to think more revealing of the contribution of other components. On the other hand, at this level, I find component matches hard to predict. So, in terms of my taste, the HD800 seems to be perfect with the Phonitor, while the HD800S and planars can sometimes seem better suited to the Moon (all with the same player). I guess there's a question at this level about the goal. If more space and delicacy are the goals, the Phonitor might be worth a listen. I guess it may cost no more (?) than the Chord equipment. The 'digital' version also has a pretty good DAC.

 

[jamesjames]

I have now also had the Chord TT2 for several days of testing in all configurations. The difference is still so small that i can’t tell them apart. It’s not an upgrade to the 430had. Even with tt2 as preamp and dac for 430had it didn’t make the susvara sound any better, other than having much more volume to go on. I reckon if I have to listen for 1-2 weeks to notice the differences when switching, then what’s the point ?

I think the internal dac of 430had is underestimated. Comparing it to 680D (made most difference) Vega g2.1 and Hugo TT2, it holds up extremely well. There are subtle differences, so small that I can’t tell them apart in blind test.

Re the Phonitor, you might find this review interesting.

https://www.headphoneer.com/spl-phonitor-xe-review/

 

[Tanalasta]

I think the internal dac of 430had is underestimated. Comparing it to 680D (made most difference) Vega g2.1 and Hugo TT2, it holds up extremely well. There are subtle differences, so small that I can’t tell them apart in blind test.

The implementation of the DAC is very well done indeed ; despite the chipset being somewhat outdated. The amplifier is very accomplished in power and if my (faint) recollection holds, the richness, full sound. I did notice a subtle improvement by bypassing the internal DAC and the Hugo TT2 (even the Hugo 2) DAC is superior. But in what aspect? Resolution, detail, separation, retrieval. And by how much? I had to listen hard with the Hugo 2.

Whilst I ended up choosing the Naim Headphone Edition for it's all-in-one value ; the Moon 430HAD has done well to remain relevant in the market this long.

 

[Roybenz]

Would anyone having a unit newer than 2017 Share what firmware version they have ? Hold the gain button for a few seconds and the version comes up. Does anyone know what is changed in the newer versions ?

Thanks.