[6PANDEMONIUM6]

That is very odd… Because this is a screenshot from Tyll from InnerFidelity testing the single ended output, and voltage doesn’t drop off to maintain a certain output.

That’s rather confusing to me then, sorry for the misinformation.

Yes, it's strange. The reasoning wasn't explained to me fully. Perhaps the balanced output has some sort of hard max that the single ended output doesn't. I'm not sure why that would be because it's a fully balanced design with an excellent power supply. Perhaps if they let the amp continue to rise in power past 10W it would no longer be stable? I'd appreciate it if someone from Simaudio would like to elaborate further.

Here is an excerpt from the response that I received:

"Thank you for your interest in our MOON products.
Unfortunately, this 16W assumption is wrong. 8W per channel is near the maximum clean power that the unit can deliver. So the power output at 25ohms will also be around 8W per channel. Please note that this is still an insane amount of power for the very vast majority of headphones, with sensitivity rated in mW."

 

[longbowbbs]

They are not wrong about insane power. The 430HAD drove a pair of Abyss 1266's to concert levels on mine. Clean and powerful they never once offered up any distortion. It was a wonderful pairing.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

They are not wrong about insane power. The 430HAD drove a pair of Abyss 1266's to concert levels on mine. Clean and powerful they never once offered up any distortion. It was a wonderful pairing.

Yeah, it doesn't bother me too much so I think that I'm still going to go with the 430HA. I'm just puzzled as to why the output would be capped at 8W. Nothing that I know about amps would lead me to that conclusion. I can only imagine that it's some sort of safety feature.

 

[longbowbbs]

You can ponder that while enjoying your new 430HA with your favorite headphones.

 

[jamesjames]

Hard to choose. It is a Tube vs SS question. Both are excellent. The S6 is wonderful with my HD800's while the Focal's love the Moon.

My interest is classical music, so preferences might be of limited interest. But, FWIW, I've been using the HD800 with the 430HA now for years (having tried many other phones and amps). It still seems to me the most satisfying combo out there. I prefer crossfeed, so this is also a factor. Cards on the table - I'm not keen on valves - so you might want to factor that in. I've recently been using the SPL Phonitor xe, which I think has lot to offer (including an excellent adjustable crossfeed feature) - but I don't think it has the effortless weight or delicacy of the Moon. I find the Moon is also an extremely good match for the MySphere 3.2. The MySphere is capable of uncanny realism with acoustic instruments when driven by the right amp. I use a Marantz SA10 as my digital source.

 

[longbowbbs]

The 430 is an awesome piece. I have had mine for 8 years now and I use it as a stand alone HP system and also as the DAC for the Studio 6. Nice to have choices.

 

[Roybenz]

Need your good guys advice

I’m considering getting the 680d to pair with my 430had, what should i expect in change of sound in terms of upgrading the dac to 680d, and use the streamer in the 680d instead of iMac-Roon-usb-430had I use today?

Will be used mostly with susvara.

Thanks

 

[longbowbbs]

The 680D is a terrific DAC. It would be more refined than the DAC in the 430HAD. Plus you would get the benefit of the streamer capabilities. It would be a fun combo. I have used this myself when I was reviewing the 680D. That is a lot of DAC.

 

[jamesjames]

I haven't heard the 680D but understand it has balanced outputs, meaning you could drive the 430 amp section via its analogue inputs - which is what I do with my Marantz. All I can say is that, while the 430 DAC is fine, I've certainly heard others (including my SA10) which I prefer. My experience is that the 430 analogue inputs and amp section can be relied on to do full justice to any external DAC. The only limiting factor I've come across is substandard analogue output sections on some streamers - which is unlikely to be the case with the 680 (it should be at least as good as the analogue section in the 430).

 

[longbowbbs]

The 680D is top notch. It is, after all, a nearly $10k DAC. The headphone amp part of the 430 is reference level even though it has been around awhile now. The pairing would be a good one for a reference HP rig.

 

[Roybenz]

I’ve read that the 430had doesn’t drive susvara to its fullest, some wrote that it’s fuzzy sounding, has enough power on paper but that the power quality is poor, and lack dynamic, resolution and slam.

I find it hard to believe, and would assume that switching amp would only give a different kind of tonality? And sure, some amps are less soft sounding, but I can’t believe that the 430had comes short.
I haven’t tried any other than v590 with susvara. And didn’t find it better than 430had.

Anyone used 430had with susvara and could ad to it?

 

[MN8372]

I’ve read that the 430had doesn’t drive susvara to its fullest, some wrote that it’s fuzzy sounding, has enough power on paper but that the power quality is poor, and lack dynamic, resolution and slam.

I find it hard to believe, and would assume that switching amp would only give a different kind of tonality? And sure, some amps are less soft sounding, but I can’t believe that the 430had comes short.
I haven’t tried any other than v590 with susvara. And didn’t find it better than 430had.

Anyone used 430had with susvara and could ad to it?

I have. Drives the Susvara really well. Plenty of power and very smooth. It’s just that my CFA3 does a better job in my opinion. Noticeably more slam and transparency with the CFA3. But that doesn’t mean the 430HAD is no good. I loved it.

 

[dnd3241]

I’ve read that the 430had doesn’t drive susvara to its fullest, some wrote that it’s fuzzy sounding, has enough power on paper but that the power quality is poor, and lack dynamic, resolution and slam.

I find it hard to believe, and would assume that switching amp would only give a different kind of tonality? And sure, some amps are less soft sounding, but I can’t believe that the 430had comes short.
I haven’t tried any other than v590 with susvara. And didn’t find it better than 430had.

Anyone used 430had with susvara and could ad to it?

It's depends on how much output gain from your Dac system. I drive my Susvara with 430HA pretty well but after I used the iFi Cans Pro as a pre-amp to boost the gains it's more than [good enough]. So many people use the speaker amp to kick the Susvara that means this monster is a power eater.

 

[jamesjames]

I have. Drives the Susvara really well. Plenty of power and very smooth. It’s just that my CFA3 does a better job in my opinion. Noticeably more slam and transparency with the CFA3. But that doesn’t mean the 430HAD is no good. I loved it.

I'm no fan of the Susvara but found the 430 had ample power (I listen to classical music). My experience is that most good, powerful amps are fine with the Susvara. Aside from the 430, I thought it was at its best with the Sennheiser HDV820 - surprisingly!

EDIT
I accept that, in theory, the Susvara (like some other voltage insensitive phones) require high voltage output to deal with transients at least - possibly more than the Moon (and certainly the Sennheiser) is capable of delivering on paper. Nevertheless, my listening experience - limited as it is to small scale classical music - hasn't exposed any audible issue. This tends to reinforce for me the importance of considering personal requirements, and actually listening to components with relevant music, before making decisions about them. The basic point, I guess, is that my comments may be of limited relevance to others who are looking to use the amp in a very different context.

 

[jcn3]

It's depends on how much output gain from your Dac system. I drive my Susvara with 430HA pretty well but after I used the iFi Cans Pro as a pre-amp to boost the gains it's more than [good enough]. So many people use the speaker amp to kick the Susvara that means this monster is a power eater.

off topic briefly . . . i so wish i hadn't sold my singlepower amp. i bought mine right off the table at a head-fi meet and it worked wonderfully.