[alinto]

   
Pleasure.
 
I will keep my thoughts on just this thread for now - would like to wait until I have a lot more hours on the 430HA before I say too much about it elsewhere to avoid potential embarrassment later.
 
I will say one more thing and then leave it alone until burn in has progressed further - in A/B comparison driving the HE6 with my WA5, the 430HA beat it handily in detail / clarity / dynamics. Only in euphonic 'tubiness' did the WA5 win, as you might expect. This is not an easy feat for an amp freshly out of the box to pull off. My WA5 is well used and has some nice glass installed, but the 430HA trumped it in just about every category, even though it has only a handful of hours on it.
 
And this technical performance wasn't at the expense of musicality - put a gun to my head and tell me to pick which is the more enjoyable musical experience and I might just put the 430HA ahead 60/40 over the WA5 right now. That is not what I was expecting and is a little staggering for a fresh-out-of-the-box amp, really.
 
I want to repeat this comparison with the WA5 in a few days and see if I still get the same result. Might just be me having a massive brainfart today, but I don't think so.
 
One thing I am sure about already - the 430HA is a special amp. It is certainly a step above my Taurus Mk2, and that is a very good SS amp.
 
EDIT - definitely some dryness bordering on harshness there in the 430HA - more apparent on some tracks than others. Exactly what you would expect from an amp in the first hours of use. It is not severe to my ears and, if you play a track that doesn't highlight it the 430HA really shines and outclasses my WA5. As this fades with burn in the 430HA is going to get better and better. Wonder what I can get for a second hand WA5 and a bunch of tubes?

I found also initially that the hardness was there on certain tracks or sections of music.  This simply disappears, unless the recording is known to have this effect, with further burn in.

 

[Dark Ayla]

TN, wait til its gets past 150 hours....It just freaking blooms! Can't wait for your impressions then,

Guys do u really believe in SS amp burn in?
Moon recommends 300 hours to burn the Nèo 430HA, but still find it hard to believe that the SS will change. I think it is our brain and ears that adapt to the sound signature over the time. Some audiophiles claim that the capacitors will burn and this will affect the sound signature.

I am wondering why Moon didn't implement mobile phones USB as an input instead of the coaxial. I don't think it's a good idea to really on the DAC and Amp inside iPhone. It will be a waste not to use the Nèo's DAC. The lack of mobile devices input is disappointing.

 

[TonyNewman]

Originally Posted by longbowbbs /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
TN, wait til its gets past 150 hours....It just freaking blooms! Can't wait for your impressions then,
 

 
Originally Posted by alinto /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

I found also initially that the hardness was there on certain tracks or sections of music.  This simply disappears, unless the recording is known to have this effect, with further burn in.

 
Exactly what I was hoping to hear. Had a similar effect with the Taurus - it needed 150/200 hours to settle down and deliver its best.
 
What really stuns me is how good the 430HA is right out of the box.
 
Has anyone seen any comparisons with the GS-X Mk2? That's the only SS amp I can think of that might be in the same league as this beastie.

 

[TonyNewman]

Guys do u really believe in SS amp burn in?
Moon recommends 300 hours to burn the Nèo 430HA, but still find it hard to believe that the SS will change. I think it is our brain and ears that adapt to the sound signature over the time. Some audiophiles claim that the capacitors will burn and this will affect the sound signature.

 
This is my second 'audiophile' SS headphone amp, and I am hearing the same initial dryness / harshness that I did with the first. The Taurus took around 150-200 hours for this to fade away. I expect the same thing with the 430HA.
 
I can't explain the technical how and why - I have heard that the capacitors and/or resistors undergo some physical changes during the first few hundred hours of use and this impacts the sound. I really don't know, but I am convinced it is not a purely psychological effect. I can A/B test against a well burned in Taurus right now - that dry edge is not there in the Taurus.
 
I am a skeptical person by nature - I believe what I can hear and discount what I cannot. I don't believe in fancy cables or interconnects because I can't hear a difference when I trial them. Some folks can - more power to them - but I cannot. I believe in SS amp burn in, as this is the second time I am experiencing it. I have heard it before and am hearing it again now.

 

[Dark Ayla]

This is my second 'audiophile' SS headphone amp, and I am hearing the same initial dryness / harshness that I did with the first. The Taurus took around 150-200 hours for this to fade away. I expect the same thing with the 430HA.

I can't explain the technical how and why - I have heard that the capacitors and/or resistors undergo some physical changes during the first few hundred hours of use and this impacts the sound. I really don't know, but I am convinced it is not a purely psychological effect. I can A/B test against a well burned in Taurus right now - that dry edge is not there in the Taurus.

I am a skeptical person by nature - I believe what I can hear and discount what I cannot. I don't believe in fancy cables or interconnects because I can't hear a difference when I trial them. Some folks can - more power to them - but I cannot. I believe in SS amp burn in, as this is the second time I am experiencing it. I have heard it before and am hearing it again now.

On Innerfedility they say that Taurus is a warm SS without harshness, which is so good.
How do u compare the Nèo to Taurus when it comes to warmth?

How do u find the Vega+Taurus combo compared to Nèo DAC/Amp?

 

[TonyNewman]

On Innerfedility they say that Taurus is a warm SS without harshness, which is so good.
How do u compare the Nèo to Taurus when it comes to warmth?

How do u find the Vega+Taurus combo compared to Nèo DAC/Amp?

 
I can't say much about tonality before the burn in on the 430HA is complete - things could change quite a bit over the next week or so. I will be doing a lot of A/B testing against the Taurus in a week or two once I am sure that the 430HA has stabilized and will report the results in this thread. My first impression is that the 430HA is slightly warm of neutral, but I can't say more than that just yet.
 
It is definitely an impressive piece of audiophile goodness. I have spent some hours listening to it with my modded HE6 and it impresses me very much with the detail / dynamics / soundstage / separation and simple enjoyment factor. It isn't just a technical marvel - it is a great musical experience - and I am saying that of an amp that is fresh out of the box and still has "pre-burn in" dryness / harshness. I would never say this about the Taurus, for example, which was rather unpleasant to listen to for the first 100 hours.
 
My 430HA does not have the optional DAC - just the basic amp. I already have the Vega, which is an excellent DAC, so have no use at all for the $800 add on DAC.

 

[Theogenes]

First impressions certainly seem positive... Going to be watching this closely for the next few months!

 

[metalboss]

 
What a beauty 

 

[aeolushu]

Seems to be a very good amp, looking forward to you guys' reviews!

 

[Articnoise]

I have had some listening to the Abyss, LCDX and LCD3 on the Moon Neo 430HA and I liked it. It was with the Moon DAC-card and it was connected to the server by optic cable. The thing that stood out was how fast it was, really good. It also produced a very clear and transparent sound with stellar 3D staging.

Does it have any weakness? Maybe one or two, the bass and this has perhaps more to do with the DAC and the optical cable than the amp, or at least it could probably contribute. The bass was however fast, deep and articulate but lack IMO some fatness and weight. I’m also not 100 % sold by the tonality with the DAC and amp. I would need much more time with it and pair it with other dacs to say anything more definitely. It is not bad for an integrated dac/amp thou.

It did a wonderful job driving the LCD X. I have only heard the X thru the Sennheiser hdvd 800 and that matching was not to my liking at all, to flat and boring sound. With the Moon it was a different story. It also drive the LCD3 and the Abyss nicely. I have never heard the Abyss before so I will not comment on it more when saying that it didn’t have any problem driving them.

Btw the Moon has a super nice volume pot and the amp looks nice too. It’s probably not an class A amp as it want get warm, not even a little. If I was looking for an amp this would be on top of my list along with AGD HE9.

 

[TonyNewman]

 
...It’s probably not an class A amp as it want get warm, not even a little. ...

 
It is uses a proprietary variation on class A to produce high SQ with low heat. There is a white paper on the amp from Simaudio that goes into technical detail on this.
 
A quote from the white paper:
 
The Neo 430HA’s output stage uses both positive and negative transistors that conduct a full wave signal, resulting in absolutely no crossover distortion, very much like a “Class A” circuit topology. However, unlike a conventional “Class A” amplifier, which draws full current at all times and generates significant heat from the current not sent to the speaker load, the 430HA’s output current flow varies with the input music signal even though the output transistors conduct current at all times. This circuit operates internally in current mode.
 
I won't pretend to understand all of that - I don't. I take it as 'class A sound without class A heat'.
 
My 430HA is hooked up to my Auralic Vega and the bass is deep and well defined while driving my HE6 (or HD800 or LCD-X). I didn't get the optional DAC with mine as I have the Vega, but I would suspect the on board DAC is not quite in the same league as the amp itself. The amp scales very well with the Vega DAC.
 
If you can try the amp with a better DAC that would be an interesting comparison.

 

[Articnoise]

 
My 430HA is hooked up to my Auralic Vega and the bass is deep and well defined while driving my HE6 (or HD800 or LCD-X). I didn't get the optional DAC with mine as I have the Vega, but I would suspect the on board DAC is not quite in the same league as the amp itself. The amp scales very well with the Vega DAC.
 
If you can try the amp with a better DAC that would be an interesting comparison.

Tony I’m satisfy with my Master 9 and are not looking for a new amp. The reason to why I have listened to the Moon Neo was because it was the amp we use to demo the Abyss against the LCD 3 with.  

The bass was fast, deep and well defined thru the Moon for sure, faster than my rig I think. That I felt it didn’t do as excellent as my rig was tonality, treble, midrange fullness and bass weight. It had more or less the same level of transparency, sounded a bit clearer and had definitely a more holographic soundstage. I forgot to say the most import thing – it sound musical. As this was not performed in direct compere and under limited time my impressions should only be taken as impressions.

The store is very far away from where I live so I want be able to demo it soon. I haven’t heard the Auralic Vega but wouldn’t be surprised if it sounded even better than the on board DAC. The on board DAC is definitely not bad, at least not for the price they ask for it.

 

[Trance_Gott]

Ha Ha the onboard DAC is very very good! It beats my NFB7 for 1500USD!!! No need for me to buy an expensive DAC. The 430HA is definitely my All In One solution for the next years!

 

[longbowbbs]

Well I have the Abyss in the house! A big "Thank You" to dBel for the loan.
 

 
I have 300+ hours on it now. I switched the input to the Balanced sourcing from my Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDSE with Femto Clock upgrades. The next few weeks is going to be fun!
 
I have the HD800's, LCD-X (fazor), Alpha Prime's to go with the Abyss so I think I have things pretty well covered.  

 

[Dark Ayla]

To current Neo 430 owners,
 
Please try your best to answer my question.
 
Let us assume that a tube amp warmth level is 8/10 on the warmth scale, how do u rate the Neo 430 out of 10 on the same warmth scale?
 
I hawked that the 430 is slightly warm, which is good but I am really couroius to know how warm.