[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgbiker1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif People can and have done very scientific measurements of cable properties (i.e. ex-McIntosh engineers, someone that I would trust in the field) and measured sound output from speakers using various cables, but skeptics won't buy that.

I'm not sure how you're defining skeptic. I certainly agree that there are properties to cables that can affect the sound. I just don't think that high end cables are any better than budget ones in this regard.

When it comes to aspects of sound that are not yet measurable... The first step is controlled testing to make sure the aspect actually exists. The second step is defining what the difference is, and the third is determining the cause. It isn't good enough to just throw your hands up and say, "we can't know everything." You have to go through the process of trying to figure it out.

See ya
Steve

 

[PointyFox]

According to this, "Audiophiles can't tell the difference between monster cable and coathangers".
 
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

 

[flight567]

so my question is, if i hear a difference, isn't the money well spent? psycoacoustics, placebo, what ever you call it. if i hear a difference it was worth it to me. give a person with a disease a sugar pill you label "magical curing pill" and they get better, did they actually get better? yes.  so perhaps there isn't a "difference" but when i know it, on my setup, there is a difference to me. and that's what makes the money well spent. too, they generally look better lol.

 

[sonq]

I can accept that SOME branded cables are little more than marketing hype and nice packaging, but it's totally different thing to say cables all sound the same. Even  differences in audio quality between stranded and solid core cables from radioshack is fairly obvious on a good, well setup budget system.
 
Saying that I there are no differences just because it's not measurable is like saying germs and viruses doesn't exist before the microscope was invented.

 

[liamstrain]

Quote:

Saying that I there are no differences just because it's not measurable is like saying germs and viruses doesn't exist before the microscope was invented.

 
Maybe, but you have a long row to hoe, to show that the ear can detect them either then. Since we can demonstrate pretty conclusively that the instrumentation is many more times more sensitive than the ear, and mathematical analysis of measured data many times more accurate. 
 
It also doesn't explain why those differences vanish when blind testing is used. 
 
Once you add in the brain's demonstrated and proven penchant for psycho-acoustic biases, any objective argument for cables has vanished. 
 

 

[sonq]

Quote:

Saying that I there are no differences just because it's not measurable is like saying germs and viruses doesn't exist before the microscope was invented.

 
Maybe, but you have a long row to hoe, to show that the ear can detect them either then. Since we can demonstrate pretty conclusively that the instrumentation is many more times more sensitive than the ear, and mathematical analysis of measured data many times more accurate. 
 
It also doesn't explain why those differences vanish when blind testing is used. 
 
Once you add in the brain's demonstrated and proven penchant for psycho-acoustic biases, any objective argument for cables has vanished. 
 

If a component or cable sounds good in my system, I simply do not care if it measures well. I purchase it for my own listening pleasure and nothing else.

Why bother to buy any component that need a host of measurements and double blind tests to proof that the improvement are real? I'm sure there are better things to spend money and time on.

Here's an interesting article on measuring audio quality http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20113895-47/can-sound-quality-be-measured/

 

[liamstrain]

Quote:

If a component or cable sounds good in my system, I simply do not care if it measures well. I purchase it for my own listening pleasure and nothing else.
Why bother to buy any component that need a host of measurements and double blind tests to proof that the improvement are real? I'm sure there are better things to spend money and time on.
Here's an interesting article on measuring audio quality http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20113895-47/can-sound-quality-be-measured/

Does the truth matter? Does it matter to you that something sounds good to you because you (unconsciously) expect it to, rather than something (usually expensive) actually having an objective true effect? There are many good reasons for better and custom cables - but none of them are related to sound quality.
 
*shrug*

 

[Mauricio]

Quote:

If a component or cable sounds good in my system, I simply do not care if it measures well. I purchase it for my own listening pleasure and nothing else.
 

No quibbles if it sounds good to you.  For those of us who have a greater curiosity about the physical world and greater awareness and humility of our own biases and senses, we like to know why it sounds better. 

 

[fatcat28037]

STOP...........this thread died 4 years ago, let it lie. 

 

[Photogeo180]

Objection: There will always be newbies like me reading old threads

(especially when looking for answers to questions like cables and their placebo or non placebo effects....!!)

 

[Mauricio]

Objection:  who put FatCat in charge of the universe?

 

[liamstrain]

Quote:

Objection: There will always be newbies like me reading old threads

(especially when looking for answers to questions like cables and their placebo or non placebo effects....!!)

The sound science subforum is the best place for those discussions, old a new. Hope to see you there.