Monster Cable vs Coat Hanger
Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 AM Post #31 of 72
I found this article on boingboing. Talks about how alot of people pay extra money for "better" sound cables when in reality it does nothing. Read it and let me know what you think.

Experiments: Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables?

Makes me wonder if people who upgrade their headphone cables are throwing money down the drain.

MOD EDIT: This thread/post has been merged into the existing thread.
 
Drop Stay updated on Drop at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/drop https://twitter.com/drop https://www.massdrop.com/?clickid=3QR3Ib27lyA-VkBRJwyGuQJeUkhUQvX5r0tLzQ0&utm_term=252901&utm_content=VigLink&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=impactradius&irgwc=1
Mar 5, 2008 at 5:46 AM Post #32 of 72
he took apart four coat hangers, reconnected them and twisted them into a pair of speaker cables. Connections were soldered. He stashed them in a closet within the testing room so we were not privy to what he was up to. This made for a pair of 2 meter cables, the exact length of the other wires.

Wait a second 4 coat hangers have 2x2x2 meters of wire in them?
 
Mar 5, 2008 at 7:20 AM Post #35 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidr2287 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
hmmm....thinking of putting up some coat hangers on the FS forum....


Maybe I can come up with a set of upgrade [U BET!] tonearm wires made from coat hangers...yes the wire-is-wire camp can reach ridiculous lengths, too.

Laz
 
Mar 5, 2008 at 7:51 AM Post #36 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My HS physics teacher liked goofing around with old TV's, and after zapping himself pretty good during one "experiment", took an 18 inch piece of dowel and attached a long piece of coat hanger wire to the end.......he said that he poked and prodded it around all the big capacitors before sticking his fingers into TV circuitry.

Seems to me that one might end up with a section of coat hanger wire welded across the leads of a really big cap, though.....



It's not just the caps. Flyback transformers pack a nasty punch, too. A CRT can keep a charge on one for days.
 
Mar 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM Post #37 of 72
I think it comes down to Monster Cables are just as good as hangers. Lets just except it. This wont stop me from buying ALO LODs though. :)
 
Mar 5, 2008 at 12:14 PM Post #39 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I like the idea of the experiment. Granted, I think there are plenty of benefits to having a proper cable as opposed to a coat hanger (basically shielding, but also just the integrity, convenience, flexibility are all secondary concerns that are real) but it's definitely a reason the monoprice 3 dollar cables will be just as good as Most All Cables.


fixed
wink.gif
 
Mar 5, 2008 at 9:32 PM Post #41 of 72
This experiment is another example of Troll baloney.

There was no control for the issue of break-in and warm up with each set of cables. Every time I change cables they change their sound over several hours of use. You want to know about the stable end level of performance not what they sound like in the first minute or so.

Maybe somethings are detectable on an A/B comparison but I want to hear cables over an extended period of time. Every time you pull that switchyou are breaking and making contacts and these need time to stabilize.

Put them in your system and see what you think after several hours of use.

Some companies will allow you to return cables within 30 days if you don't think they are worth having.
 
Mar 5, 2008 at 11:07 PM Post #42 of 72
It is not troll baloney. It is called an experiment to see if high priced cables really sound better. How would you do the test? Some people would really like to know if their money is well spent on upgrading their cables.

If the difference is noticeable, you should be able to tell a difference right away and should not have to listen for several hours. So are you saying as long as you listen to your system for less than several hours, a coat hanger will sound the same as other cables?

Warm up and break-in is another unproven thing that audiophiles talk about.
 
Mar 5, 2008 at 11:25 PM Post #43 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I was told years ago by a fellow whose opinion I trusted that wire is wire. Has anyone really demonstrated that these make any difference?

metal [copper, silver, steel, zinc, lead, even carbon]
oxygen content
crystal structure
construction [litz, etc]
insulation

Laz



Nobody has to trust anyone's opinion. It's a fact that wire is indeed wire. Fact. Not opinion. Very much fact. Very much scientifically proven and verified thousands of times a day in thousands of technologies for hundreds of years now. The behavior of copper wire is, you could say, well-known. I'm a materials scientist and my reputation depends on knowing exactly how materials respond and what they can take and what their limitations are (I actually work on solar cells). But you don't have to be, you only need a modicum of common sense and insight to realize that, in audio, wire is indeed wire.

The metal used has a huge effect on the resistivity of a given size wire. Silver is the most conductive, followed by gold and copper and aluminum and steel. You can look these up in any textbook or google. The oxygen content has an appreciable effect on the resistance of the wire as well. The resistivity of copper drops off pretty fast with increasing oxygen content. And crystalinity also effects resistivity, rather significantly.

But resistivity doesn't really matter, because if a cable is too resistive, all it does is attenuate the volume of the speaker. It doesn't distort the signal in any other way. That's why we have volume controls. Volume controls are variable resistors. It's completely absurd to worry about the resistivity of speaker wire, when you add hundreds or thousands of ohms of resistance for volume control.


The construction of an audio cable doesn't really matter. The 'skin effect' is a complete joke. Cosmic rays probably effect the signal more, at audio frequencies. And if the skin effect WAS a problem, using multistrand wires would have nothing to do with it. As you would know if you paid attention in electrodynamics class, the net effect of a multistrand bundle of wire, with respect to the skin effect, is the same as a solid wire of the same diameter. At very high (like radio and up) frequencies, where the skin effect IS a real phenomenon, engineers use copper tubing (because the conduction happens more on the surface), sometimes with coolant running inside in high-power applications.

Capacitances introduced with respect to speaker cable design are completely irrelevant, and it's up in the air whether they are actually a bad thing anyway. As you may know, your speakers have many microfarads worth of capacitors in them, on purpose, to add capacitance. The manufacturing tolerance of these capacitors, and their variation with temperature is more than the entire capacitance of even a cable that is purposely designed to add capacitance. The only place that capacitance could really matter is the lowest-level stage of an LP playback chain. And then not very much, because cartridges are all different as to their preferred capacitance, again, less is not necessarily better.


Wire is wire. Buy the cheapest you can find. I use common lamp cord from home depot. I do insist that one of the conductors is marked somehow so that I can easily hook them up, and that they are of sensible gauge. Cables sold specifically for audio are at best completely shameless marketing and at worst, downright fraud.
 
Mar 6, 2008 at 12:04 AM Post #44 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif
.... Every time you pull that switch you are breaking and making contacts and these need time to stabilize...


Is there a scientific basis for that claim?
 
Mar 6, 2008 at 12:20 AM Post #45 of 72
Quote:

Needless to say, after the blind folds came off and we saw what my brother did, we learned he was right...most of what manufactures have to say about their products is pure hype. It seems the more they charge, the more hyped it is.


Still amazes me how people conduct supposedly "scientific" experiments and come to un-scientific conclusions. All it proved was in that particular system, those particular cables made no difference to coat hangers to those particular people. I'd agree though, Monster cables are no better than coat hangers. I don't need a test to tell me that.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top