[mandrake50]

The M106 need, in rough terms, around 0.4 watts (400 mw) to reach about 121 DB. A level that will damage your hearing after a short period of time. What are you doing with the other 3.6 watts. In fact the specs say that the OPTIMAL Power is 200 mw UP TO 4 watts. Nowhere is it stated that they are designed for 4 watts!! Only that amps from 200 mw up to 4 watts can be used.
The 10 watt figure is for extremely short term (200ms) . Longer than that will surely destroy the headphones! They are rated for a max of 130 DB, which they should get to at below 4 watts (approximately 3.8 watts).. That is not optimal for anything other than torture or nearly instantaneous ear damage.

It is misleading at best and possibly reckless, to say that any amp under 4 watts per channel is inadequate. That would leave out many, if not most quality headphone amps. Any quality amp that provides good clean power in the range of .5 to 1 watt into 50 ohms would be more than sufficient for very loud listening. Considerably less than that for people that value their hearing.

 

[snellemin]

The M106 need, in rough terms, around 0.4 watts (400 mw) to reach about 121 DB. A level that will damage your hearing after a short period of time. What are you doing with the other 3.6 watts. In fact the specs say that the OPTIMAL Power is 200 mw UP TO 4 watts. Nowhere is it stated that they are designed for 4 watts!! Only that amps from 200 mw up to 4 watts can be used.
The 10 watt figure is for extremely short term (200ms) . Longer than that will surely destroy the headphones! They are rated for a max of 130 DB, which they should get to at below 4 watts (approximately 3.8 watts).. That is not optimal for anything other than torture or nearly instantaneous ear damage.

It is misleading at best and possibly reckless, to say that any amp under 4 watts per channel is inadequate. That would leave out many, if not most quality headphone amps. Any quality amp that provides good clean power in the range of .5 to 1 watt into 50 ohms would be more than sufficient for very loud listening. Considerably less than that for people that value their hearing.

You need more power to bring the subbass out. .4W doesn't even bring the 1060 to life.

 

[DavidA]

I really can't recommend any earpads since I've yet to find any I really like compared to J-Money lambskins (which have not been available for many, many years.) Am thinking of trying out the Lawton pads. I find the TH-X00 headband more comfortable than the M1060 headband, but the J-money earpads not as comfortable as the Audeze microsuedes. But what TH-X00 has piercing mids? Well defined, detailed, extremely clear, and slightly recessed would be how I would describe the mids on my TH-X00 PH. The highs may be more forward and ride the line of being in overbearing territory, but I find them overall less fatiguing to listen to over the M1060. M1060 is a much drier/more clinical sound, the TH-X00 PH are lush, lively, and energetic sounding with that beautiful bass.

You need to give the M1060 MORE POWER if you want the really hear what they can do.... they are designed to be optimal at around 4W of power, can take up to almost 10W. I've heard them on a very powerful rig - the bass is more than satisfying with the M1060 when they are powered with the right rig...

Its not the power but the design of and the sound signature of the amp that made it sound better. Agree with @mandrake50, the M1060 are fairly efficient and don't need much power to get to earing damaging levels.

 

[mandrake50]

You need more power to bring the subbass out. .4W doesn't even bring the 1060 to life.

Are you doing actual measurements to back up this statement. Have you ever actually used an analyzer to see what is going into the headphones and measure the SPL versus frequency out.

Headphone listening is an art and very personal. Electronics and the formulas used in it are a science that is not up for interpretation. If the specs that Monoprice publishes are anywhere close to accurate, what you are claiming makes no sense. Let us know when you have some hard data to back this up, please.

 

[macky112]

Its not the power but the design of and the sound signature of the amp that made it sound better. Agree with @mandrake50, the M1060 are fairly efficient and don't need much power to get to earing damaging levels.

I am a noob when it comes to spl, power and db of amps, and I am curious!

Does it make sense for this analogy: a Honda Civic (as an ideal but less powerful amp) and a Ferrari (as an ideal more powerful amp), and both are cruising on the freeway at 60 mph (as my comfortable listening level at X db) then when sub bass are called for (as the car acceleration), the Ferrari amp though playing at same listening level would produce better sub bass?

Sorry if this is a dumb analogy, lol

 

[Brahmsian]

expectation bias at its finest You read others saying they are good, you want them to be good, and at first you find them very nice and competing with the m1060's, but as time goes by and you compare them head to head, opinions change... Had the same experience listening to the VE monk plus'; at first, when listening at my parents house, I was sure they were "just as good as the m1060's, what a waste of money the m1060's are", and when I got home it didn't sound even remotely close

Yup, the reason I got them is I saw them recommended over the M1060 more than once. It's not even close. I might keep them to use with my phone. They don't sound bad and they're pretty light for the purpose. But anybody saying they're better than the 1060, just stop.

 

[fpantalone]

That mod looks amazing! Do you find it completely changes the comfort level? Does not having the suspension band change how the weight feels?



He uses EQ for all of his headphones, so I am fairly certain he is also EQing the treble down on those. He just said he couldn't get the EQ to tame the 5k peak on the M1060 and that was a deal breaker for him.



I have a Little Dot Mk2 and I can tell you the M1060 sounds good off of that. I prefer the NFB-11, but really, it doesn't seem like the M1060 is significantly affected by amps, unlike HD6x0.



Yep, that is basically a summary of how I felt. If I could only have one headphone between the two, it would be M1060, even stock. But if I already owned the HE-400i and got them for $225, I would probably skip the M1060 if I was upgrading. I would probably just go straight to something higher end like HE-560, LCD-2/3, HD800, ZMF Eikon, etc.



Haha ok that makes way more sense. The HD650 is a pretty dark can, I believe one of the warmer ones out there, although I think Nighthawk might be even darker? So if you are only comparing one can against HD650, I think anything would be "brighter". Also, I don't think the veil vanishes with higher volumes on HD650, I think it vanishes with better source gear. Also, I think perception of veil is psychological and relative. When I came to HD650 from brighter cans like DT770 and SHP9500 I immediately could only hear veil. I stopped listening to everything else besides HD650 for a few weeks and after a while I couldn't hear veil anymore. Now when i switch to my other cans, those sound overly bright to me when they used to be neutral. It has been suggested that crisp treble sparkle creates that airyness feeling and perhaps a potentially false sense of perception of being clear and detailed. I think a combo of those factors is why HD650 get labeled as veiled. Even Audeze LCD-2 gets that label too for probably the same reasons.

---------------
I have to say about your statement below ...

"But if I already owned the HE-400i and got them for $225, I would probably skip the M1060 if I was upgrading. I would probably just go straight to something higher end like HE-560, LCD-2/3, HD800, ZMF Eikon, etc."

Skipping the M1060 and going straight to the HD800, having owned and sold the 800's myself, really doesn't make a lot of sense, at least to me. The 1060 and 800 cans are SO completely different. There's like NO comparison. The 800's, to me, are no fun at all. They have their strengths for sure, but the SS is such that you can't just 'skip over' the 1060's. I haven't heard the others you mentioned so can't comment. Just my thoughts as I learn more about these cans.

 

[givemetacos]

---------------
I have to say about your statement below ...

"But if I already owned the HE-400i and got them for $225, I would probably skip the M1060 if I was upgrading. I would probably just go straight to something higher end like HE-560, LCD-2/3, HD800, ZMF Eikon, etc."

Skipping the M1060 and going straight to the HD800, having owned and sold the 800's myself, really doesn't make a lot of sense, at least to me. The 1060 and 800 cans are SO completely different. There's like NO comparison. The 800's, to me, are no fun at all. They have their strengths for sure, but the SS is such that you can't just 'skip over' the 1060's. I haven't heard the others you mentioned so can't comment. Just my thoughts as I learn more about these cans.

Funny enough, I actually bought the HD800 since I posted that. I love it. But I actually didn't mean for that to be a comparison to M1060. I get they are completely opposite headphones.I think I meant that grouping to be more of "next tier" headphones. In terms of technical ability I kind of see the M1060 in an unique sector. Of course this all my subjective opinion, but I think it punches above its weight in the $300 market, which is why I think most of us feel it is "better" than HE-400i. But I also think it isn't quite up to being as good as the top of the line tier, like the headphones in the $1,000 range, which is what I used for my example. I think that is a lot of what the negative M1060 reviewers are also saying. Many of them that didn't care for them stock admit that modding should help them, but at the price of the now-impossible to get vegan pads, you are sort of pushing it closer to the cost of a higher tier headphone, and it is kind of a judgment call at that point. For instance, you can buy the LCD-2 brand new right now for $700 straight up. Or you can also buy it brand new bundled with an iFi Micro Black Label (which sells for $450-500 new on ebay). That puts a brand new LCD-2 at the $500 range. And it seems like the people who have owned both M1060 and LCD-2 say the LCD-2 is better (not necessarily by much) in everything, except comfort/weight.

Now with that said, I love my M1060 and there's definitely things I prefer it over all my other headphones, even HD800. But having heard the HE-400i and finding them to be pretty decent, if I was going to upgrade I would probably skip M0160 and get a $500 LCD-2.

 

[DavidA]

I am a noob when it comes to spl, power and db of amps, and I am curious!

Does it make sense for this analogy: a Honda Civic (as an ideal but less powerful amp) and a Ferrari (as an ideal more powerful amp), and both are cruising on the freeway at 60 mph (as my comfortable listening level at X db) then when sub bass are called for (as the car acceleration), the Ferrari amp though playing at same listening level would produce better sub bass?

Sorry if this is a dumb analogy, lol

Not a dumb analogy but not correct either. I can't think of a car analogy but some amps and headphones just go together, an example would be a BH Crack amp and the HD600/650, one of the best pairing that I know of. All/most planar headphones will sound pretty bad with the BH Crack since the output impedance of the BH Crack is way to high to properly drive them. The best way that I can suggest to notice the effect of output impedance on various headphones is to use an amp that you can change the output impedance on the fly like a Project Ember or Teac HA-501. The M1060 have a impedance of 50ohms so you would like your choice of amp to have a output impedance of less than 5ohms (most SS amps output impedance are 0.1 to 0.5 ohms). Maybe others with better technical knowledge can give you a better explanation.

 

[snellemin]

Are you doing actual measurements to back up this statement. Have you ever actually used an analyzer to see what is going into the headphones and measure the SPL versus frequency out.

Headphone listening is an art and very personal. Electronics and the formulas used in it are a science that is not up for interpretation. If the specs that Monoprice publishes are anywhere close to accurate, what you are claiming makes no sense. Let us know when you have some hard data to back this up, please.

Hahaha. I see you are one of those characters. All data and zero joy.

Ask these two guys what joy more power brought to their 1060's.

 

[VRacer-111]

The M106 need, in rough terms, around 0.4 watts (400 mw) to reach about 121 DB. A level that will damage your hearing after a short period of time. What are you doing with the other 3.6 watts. In fact the specs say that the OPTIMAL Power is 200 mw UP TO 4 watts. Nowhere is it stated that they are designed for 4 watts!! Only that amps from 200 mw up to 4 watts can be used.
The 10 watt figure is for extremely short term (200ms) . Longer than that will surely destroy the headphones! They are rated for a max of 130 DB, which they should get to at below 4 watts (approximately 3.8 watts).. That is not optimal for anything other than torture or nearly instantaneous ear damage.

It is misleading at best and possibly reckless, to say that any amp under 4 watts per channel is inadequate. That would leave out many, if not most quality headphone amps. Any quality amp that provides good clean power in the range of .5 to 1 watt into 50 ohms would be more than sufficient for very loud listening. Considerably less than that for people that value their hearing.

Did I say that 'normal' amps were inadequate? I said, if you want to hear what the M1060 are truely capable of with bass, then plug them into a powerful rig. They could almost nearly go toe-to-toe with a modded TH-X00 PH, but fall just a bit short.

I will say I heard a difference between my weaker amp and a very powerful rig playing at around the same volume level... you don't need to be playing music at really loud levels to hear an improvement. It's not about volume level, it's about the sub-bass and bass and how powerful and intense it sounds when you have 'horsepower' under the hood. Sure you can crank it up if you don't care about your hearing, and that would not be a recommended thing to do at all. All my listening is at low levels, 80-85dB max for occasional short duration, but usually 75dB normal listening.

 

[Tullebukk]

Did I say that 'normal' amps were inadequate? I said, if you want to hear what the M1060 are truely capable of with bass, then plug them into a powerful rig. They could almost nearly go toe-to-toe with a modded TH-X00 PH, but fall just a bit short.

I will say I heard a difference between my weaker amp and a very powerful rig playing at around the same volume level... you don't need to be playing music at really loud levels to hear an improvement. It's not about volume level, it's about the sub-bass and bass and how powerful and intense it sounds when you have 'horsepower' under the hood. Sure you can crank it up if you don't care about your hearing, and that would not be a recommended thing to do at all. All my listening is at low levels, 80-85dB max for occasional short duration, but usually 75dB normal listening.

it's still just guessing on your part, yes? Because two amps at the same listening level (lets say 65dB), will, as I understand it, push the same amount of power into the headphones. Could it just be that the more powerful amp has better internals, gives a cleaner signal, and is in the end just a better, more expensive amp, and that's why it sounds better? The statements about "having more power sounds better" doesn't really make any sense to me, if I'm correct in my assumptions. Having a BETTER amp will improve soundquality, and with better amps usually comes more power. Am I totally off?

 

[macky112]

it's still just guessing on your part, yes? Because two amps at the same listening level (lets say 65dB), will, as I understand it, push the same amount of power into the headphones. Could it just be that the more powerful amp has better internals, gives a cleaner signal, and is in the end just a better, more expensive amp, and that's why it sounds better? The statements about "having more power sounds better" doesn't really make any sense to me, if I'm correct in my assumptions. Having a BETTER amp will improve soundquality, and with better amps usually comes more power. Am I totally off?

I think you have a point here

(Point #1) Two amps playing at the same volume level, the better amp will sound better

But I was wondering about what @VRacer-111 wrote right above, so (point #2) if two similar audio quality amp playung at the same level, would the more powerful amp help m1060 sound better? How about in terms of sub bass?

Would compare a Fulla 2 to Modi 2 + magni 2 stack be close to the point #2 test I just described? Or their audio quality would be too different so audio quality come into play before output power makes any difference?

 

[Tullebukk]

I think you have a point here

(Point #1) Two amps playing at the same volume level, the better amp will sound better

But I was wondering about what @VRacer-111 wrote right above, so (point #2) if two similar audio quality amp playung at the same level, would the more powerful amp help m1060 sound better? How about in terms of sub bass?

Would compare a Fulla 2 to Modi 2 + magni 2 stack be close to the point #2 test I just described? Or their audio quality would be too different so audio quality come into play before output power makes any difference?

found this on reddit:

"most headphone amps apply gain in the voltage domain, but they have a maximum current output. When you're achieving high SPL, you've got a lot of voltage, but if you don't have the current to match, you're going to get distortion, and planar magnetic headphones are notoriously current hungry rather than voltage hungry." https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2n9fer/headphone_amps_is_there_a_difference_between/

very interesting point!

 

[SomeTechNoob]

Also keep in mind that headphones have varying impedance depending on the frequency being played. Common example is the HD 600 which is rated at 300 ohms, but there's a 600ohm spike or so in the bass region. Some amps don't scale well with increased impedance and can't provide as much power at these higher resistances than other amps, resulting in some differences when listening to different amps.

Personally I think that while amps do make a difference, the improvement is pretty minimal unless your source is absolutely garbage. Stuff like my HD 6XX sounds a wee bit better out of my Magni 2, but even my phone puts up a good fight. Music is easily listenable and the small differences are borderline forgettable.