[Pharmaboy]

Unfortunately we don't have any headphones in common. I was just wondering about the sound in general. I really enjoyed the LP with any decent tube. I was just wondering how they would compare? I have heard that the gain is still high with the gold despite having a gain switch.

I followed this amp when it first came out but, like many, I didn't need the DAC and the DAC/amp was expensive. But at $299.00-$399.00, it seems like a no-brainer, depending on the sound.

In my experience, two factors, if present in your system, will give the LGX a much better chance of impressing you:

1. If you have one or more planar headphones (the LGX is much more of a "sure thing" with planars than dynamics);
2. And if you have a volume pot upstream of the LGX--whether on a preamp, a DAC w/volume control, or some kind of passive attenuator

#2 took awhile to fall into place for me in my side system where the LGX lives, but once it did, the previous usability issues w/this amp pretty much went away. Now both my planars (ZMF Ori & ZMF Caldera) really impress on the LGX.

 

[Shane D]

In my experience, two factors, if present in your system, will give the LGX a much better chance of impressing you:

1. If you have one or more planar headphones (the LGX is much more of a "sure thing" with planars than dynamics);
2. And if you have a volume pot upstream of the LGX--whether on a preamp, a DAC w/volume control, or some kind of passive attenuator

#2 took awhile to fall into place for me in my side system where the LGX lives, but once it did, the previous usability issues w/this amp pretty much went away. Now both my planars (ZMF Ori & ZMF Caldera) really impress on the LGX.

I do have two planars, the HE6se V2's and Nectar Bee's.

No volume pot upstream, which is why I mentioned the gain. I have some Very efficient headphones that weren't a great match with my LP.

If I ever see one of these going for uber cheap I will likely grab it, but no plans other than that.

 

[LCMusicLover]

I do have two planars, the HE6se V2's and Nectar Bee's.

No volume pot upstream, which is why I mentioned the gain. I have some Very efficient headphones that weren't a great match with my LP.

If I ever see one of these going for uber cheap I will likely grab it, but no plans other than that.

FYI, the gain switch is silly — doesn’t change the gain very much and produces a loud pop when you switch it w/ cans attached.

 

[dstarr3]

A question about the DAC criticisms. Those that are critical of it, what kinds of DACs are they comparing it to? Like, are the critics saying it's not as good as a Denafrips R2R DAC or other >$1,000 DACs, or are they saying performs worse than even basic DACs?

For instance, my main DAC is the AKM version of the Schiit Modius, which is based on an AKM 4493 chip, and I'm considering a side-grade to an SMSL D6, which is based on 2x 4493S chips, and the DAC inside the LGX is based on a 4493EX chip.

I would not be surprised if those three chips, the AKM 4493, 4493S, and 4493EX have much much much more in common than they have differences. And I'd honestly be shocked to learn that there's an audible distinction that can be resolved by human ears. But, I'll be the first person to admit I'm no expert. Maybe there's more to it than the chip a Sigma-Delta DAC is based on than I think.

Using the LGX's DAC would be convenient, as it's fewer cables to run, unless there's some critical shortcoming that's just not apparent on paper. But if the majority of the criticisms are just "I wish there was a cheaper DAC-less version of this amp," that's a whole different thing.

 

[Shane D]

A question about the DAC criticisms. Those that are critical of it, what kinds of DACs are they comparing it to? Like, are the critics saying it's not as good as a Denafrips R2R DAC or other >$1,000 DACs, or are they saying performs worse than even basic DACs?

For instance, my main DAC is the AKM version of the Schiit Modius, which is based on an AKM 4493 chip, and I'm considering a side-grade to an SMSL D6, which is based on 2x 4493S chips, and the DAC inside the LGX is based on a 4493EX chip.

I would not be surprised if those three chips, the AKM 4493, 4493S, and 4493EX have much much much more in common than they have differences. And I'd honestly be shocked to learn that there's an audible distinction that can be resolved by human ears. But, I'll be the first person to admit I'm no expert. Maybe there's more to it than the chip a Sigma-Delta DAC is based on than I think.

Using the LGX's DAC would be convenient, as it's fewer cables to run, unless there's some critical shortcoming that's just not apparent on paper. But if the majority of the criticisms are just "I wish there was a cheaper DAC-less version of this amp," that's a whole different thing.

I am in the latter group.

I have two DAC's. One cost me $350.00 and one cost me $1,150.00. I do not notice much difference between them at all. I guess I don't have the golden ears.
If I got a screamin' deal on this unit ($299.99), I would probably be just fine with this DAC.
My music source is AAC, MP3 and ALAC files on a hard drive.

 

[dstarr3]

I am in the latter group.

I have two DAC's. One cost me $350.00 and one cost me $1,150.00. I do not notice much difference between them at all. I guess I don't have the golden ears.
If I got a screamin' deal on this unit ($299.99), I would probably be just fine with this DAC.
My music source is AAC, MP3 and ALAC files on a hard drive.

Yeah, for sure, "I wish there was a cheaper DAC-less version of this amp" is totally legit, I get that. It's just a very different criticism from "This built-in DAC is bad," and if there are people arguing that the DAC is actively bad, I'd like to know why they think that and what they're comparing it to.

Just by sheer coincidence, all the DACs I've heard are AKM-based. I'm eager to hear an ESS-based DAC to see if different Sigma-Delta DACs really can sound different. I'm especially interested to hear an R2R DAC one day, because if there's any possibility for two DACs to sound different, I feel like that would be the way: comparing Sigma-Delta with R2R. But yeah, at the moment, I've only ever heard AKM S-D DACs and they've all sounded the same to me. So I can't say whether or not my ears aren't golden, or if the minute differences I've been exposed to thus far simply are imperceptible by humans.

But yeah, what I'm getting it is just, among this amp's DAC critics, of the subset that actively dislike the DAC as opposed to those that just dislike its mere presence, what are they comparing it to?

 

[trellus]

A question about the DAC criticisms. Those that are critical of it, what kinds of DACs are they comparing it to? Like, are the critics saying it's not as good as a Denafrips R2R DAC or other >$1,000 DACs, or are they saying performs worse than even basic DACs?

For instance, my main DAC is the AKM version of the Schiit Modius, which is based on an AKM 4493 chip, and I'm considering a side-grade to an SMSL D6, which is based on 2x 4493S chips, and the DAC inside the LGX is based on a 4493EX chip.

I would not be surprised if those three chips, the AKM 4493, 4493S, and 4493EX have much much much more in common than they have differences. And I'd honestly be shocked to learn that there's an audible distinction that can be resolved by human ears. But, I'll be the first person to admit I'm no expert. Maybe there's more to it than the chip a Sigma-Delta DAC is based on than I think.

Using the LGX's DAC would be convenient, as it's fewer cables to run, unless there's some critical shortcoming that's just not apparent on paper. But if the majority of the criticisms are just "I wish there was a cheaper DAC-less version of this amp," that's a whole different thing.

Yeah, my DAC’s are all lower tiered budget DACS (Yulong D100, SMSL S8) or very old (Benchmark DAV1), and I actually don’t expect the Liquid Gold X built-in DAC to be discernibly worse to my pedestrian ears, honestly … I just got mine in today from FedEx, so haven’t even had a chance to open the box yet.

But my problem with using it as a DAC is that it has no line out, and that doesn’t work for me in my setup as a DAC, as all my primary setups have DACs with line out so I can use multiple amps easily.

But I will probably rest the DAC out of curiosity more than anything.

 

[Shane D]

Yeah, my DAC’s are all lower tiered budget DACS (Yulong D100, SMSL S8) or very old (Benchmark DAV1), and I actually don’t expect the Liquid Gold X built-in DAC to be discernibly worse to my pedestrian ears, honestly … I just got mine in today from FedEx, so haven’t even had a chance to open the box yet.

But my problem with using it as a DAC is that it has no line out, and that doesn’t work for me in my setup as a DAC, as all my primary setups have DACs with line out so I can use multiple amps easily.

But I will probably rest the DAC out of curiosity more than anything.

What kind of a deal did you get?

 

[trellus]

What kind of a deal did you get?

$359.39 - $71.88 via promo code = $287.51 pre-tax + $23.72 sales tax + $0.00 shipping = $311.23 total

Barely now getting first listen. Starting with some of my harder to drive headphones -- but I also have neglected these lately so can't really comment yet other than to say, yes, particularly for these I'm using balanced for sure -- plugged them in SE stock cable and ahhhh left a little to be desired.

 

[Pharmaboy]

But yeah, what I'm getting it is just, among this amp's DAC critics, of the subset that actively dislike the DAC as opposed to those that just dislike its mere presence, what are they comparing it to?

I don't dislike the sound of the DAC. I've never heard it. My main computers are both still Windows 7 Professional, which require drivers for any external USB devices (Monoprice does not supply drivers for the LGX). I also have a much newer Win11Pro laptop, so I could hook it up to that. But I never bother because I like the DAC that's in the system the new laptop will go into: a headphone-only system based on the Audio GD R2R-11 MK2, a NOS design that sounds quite meat-and-potatoes & straightforward, in the NOS/R2R style.

My other desktop system has my best DAC, the MHDT Labs Orchid, also NOS, but with a tube buffer circuit that, with the right NOS tube, makes a good sound even better. This is a music- & musicality-first design that does not prioritize resolution over tone & timbre...that's exactly how I like it: my preference clearly is for NOS DACs, not delta-sigma designs.

So I have no incentive to try the LGX' built-in DAC. And FWIW, if I manage to score a Wells Milo (currently in discussions), I'll replace the LGX with it & put the LGX up F.S. It's an excellent amp, especially with planars. But I always have 8 or 9 amps at any given time, so when one comes in, another usually goes out.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

A question about the DAC criticisms. Those that are critical of it, what kinds of DACs are they comparing it to? Like, are the critics saying it's not as good as a Denafrips R2R DAC or other >$1,000 DACs, or are they saying performs worse than even basic DACs?

The built-in DAC performs like and sounds like a basic mid-level AKM based DAC. No better, no worse than what you would expect from a mid-level AKM based DAC. If you like the sound of typical AKM based DACs then you'll like the built-in DAC. If you find the AKM based DACs to be somewhat lacking then you'll find the built-in DAC to be similarly lacking. The basic mid-level AKM based DACs don't suck. But they're also not great compared to some other DACs.

People who like the AKM sound will like the built-in DAC. It is competent and sounds like a typical mid-level AKM based DAC. The people who find the AKM based DACs to be somewhat lacking will not like the built-in DAC and be looking for a better DAC to pair with the amp.

My own preferences for DACs to pair with the Liquid Gold X and other Cavalli amps are the Schiit multibit series of DACs. I use the Bifrost 2 and Gungnir MB. But even the Modi Multibit sounds more musically engaging to me than any standard AKM based DAC I've heard (including $1000+ versions).

My experience with many Cavalli amps (I own a few and have listened to others) is that the Schiit multibits pair very well with the Cavalli house sound. Very very well. It's a match of uncommon level of synergy. And AKM based DACs just don't achieve that level of synergy. And neither do the ESS Sabre DACs. And I haven't found the Denafrips R2R DACs to do the sound style I'm after with the Cavalli amps either.

 

[Shane D]

The built-in DAC performs like and sounds like a basic mid-level AKM based DAC. No better, no worse than what you would expect from a mid-level AKM based DAC. If you like the sound of typical AKM based DACs then you'll like the built-in DAC. If you find the AKM based DACs to be somewhat lacking then you'll find the built-in DAC to be similarly lacking. The basic mid-level AKM based DACs don't suck. But they're also not great compared to some other DACs.

People who like the AKM sound will like the built-in DAC. It is competent and sounds like a typical mid-level AKM based DAC. The people who find the AKM based DACs to be somewhat lacking will not like the built-in DAC and be looking for a better DAC to pair with the amp.

My own preferences for DACs to pair with the Liquid Gold X and other Cavalli amps are the Schiit multibit series of DACs. I use the Bifrost 2 and Gungnir MB. But even the Modi Multibit sounds more musically engaging to me than any standard AKM based DAC I've heard (including $1000+ versions).

My experience with many Cavalli amps (I own a few and have listened to others) is that the Schiit multibits pair very well with the Cavalli house sound. Very very well. It's a match of uncommon level of synergy. And AKM based DACs just don't achieve that level of synergy. And neither do the ESS Sabre DACs. And I haven't found the Denafrips R2R DACs to do the sound style I'm after with the Cavalli amps either.

I enjoyed my LP off my BF2.

 

[CopperFox]

Since there weren't any photos of the amp's internals anywhere, I took some:

Top side of the amplifier circuit

Bottom side of amplifier circuit

Dac module


Some observations:

There are nine electrolytic capacitors on the amplifier, which are
3* Panasonic FC 470uf 63v
4* Nichicon VZ 33uf 35v
2* Panasonic M 10uf 25v

There are also three metal film (?) resistors, two of which with values of 100R (98 on my multimeter) and one with 80R.
12* 470R SMD resistors are in front of transistors, which are large-ish for SMD components.

On the dac module, there are two OP1678 opamps, Xmos Xu208, AK4118, a single AK4493, and some others. Power delivery for the dac obviously isn't the best.


The positions and specifications of the electrolytic caps on the circuit are rather similar to those on the Monolith Liquid Platinum. Some people have modded that amp with some different electrolytic caps (Elna silmic, Nichicon KZ or Audio Note) with reported gains in audio quality. Might be possible on the LGX as well. And remember that any attempted mods are at your own risk.

As it its, the LGX is easily my favorite solid state amp so far, although the dac isn't great and I don't use it.

Are there photos of the original Liquid Gold amp internals somewhere? Would be interesting to see what components it has on it, if the circuit is near-identical.

 

[ksorota]

Since there weren't any photos of the amp's internals anywhere, I took some:


Top side of the amplifier circuit



Bottom side of amplifier circuit



Dac module


Some observations:

There are nine electrolytic capacitors on the amplifier, which are
3* Panasonic FC 470uf 63v
4* Nichicon VZ 33uf 35v
2* Panasonic M 10uf 25v

There are also three metal film (?) resistors, two of which with values of 100R (98 on my multimeter) and one with 80R.
12* 470R SMD resistors are in front of transistors, which are large-ish for SMD components.

On the dac module, there are two OP1678 opamps, Xmos Xu208, AK4118, a single AK4493, and some others. Power delivery for the dac obviously isn't the best.


The positions and specifications of the electrolytic caps on the circuit are rather similar to those on the Monolith Liquid Platinum. Some people have modded that amp with some different electrolytic caps (Elna silmic, Nichicon KZ or Audio Note) with reported gains in audio quality. Might be possible on the LGX as well. And remember that any attempted mods are at your own risk.

As it its, the LGX is easily my favorite solid state amp so far, although the dac isn't great and I don't use it.

Are there photos of the original Liquid Gold amp internals somewhere? Would be interesting to see what components it has on it, if the circuit is near-identical.

Thank you for taking pictures. I was hoping to find some earlier this year, but failed and never thought about it again.

I plan to do just as you suggested. Get one in house and swap out some parts. Did you trying running the amp without the DAC board installed? I would assume it works and is probably what i would have to end up doing.

Very simlar to the LP in the initial look. I bet an external linear power supply would make a noticeable difference in the sonic qualities.


Thanks again,

 

[K1030]

Just purchased this amp and looking down the upgrade path. Has anyone had any experience using a linear power supply with this? Are there any clear audible improvements?? Also has anyone paired this with a Geshelli J2/J2S or an Aune X8? Any DAC upgrade feedback is appreciated.