[Meloncoly]

I would never use a headset for positioning in FPS, that's dumb (no offense). I would have a standalone mic and use a dedicated headphone. I would get way better positioning with that setup instead of a headset. Best gaming setup I had was the A900 + Desktop Boom Mic. That gave me awesome positioning in terms of if the shot was fired above, below, behind, front, right or left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif You need some sleep Nocturnal? Positioning of sound is everything in first person shooters...

 

[Jallixx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif why would someone buy PC350 for music first of all? its a headset..and headsets are mainly for vocal communication and maybe some 'gaming' only because gaming needs voice comm..and not because of positioning of sound.

I didn't bought the PC350 for music first of all, but it was an important piece. If you just had read my post properly you had got that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Weimar /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fresh out of the box with only a few hours. Time is limited when doing a professional review. I took it into account, but they just sounded really poor to me (note, linked review is in Dutch and I didn't write it, just did the bulk of the tests )

That's the bad about headphone and headset reviews, the test objects really need a properly burn in before test, if not by you then at least by the manufacturers before they send them away for testing. If they were all new the tests could never been really fair. Almost all headphones and headsets sounds like crap when they are new.

 

[PG21]

For FPS I use my HD555 and wear a random plantronics headset around my nick for the mic.

For casual gaming I use the DT770.

 

[ear8dmg]

IMO, the soundcard is far more important than the headphones or headset for positional audio in games. Having a nice detailed set of headphones with a good headstage helps but they can't introduce information that isn't there in the first place.

CMSS-3D headphone (for direction) or Dolby Headphone (for realism / immersion) FTW!

That's only X-Fi CMSS-3D headphone. The Audigy (including rebranded variants like the X-Fi Xtreme Audio) is poor in comparison. Dolby Headphone needs a pretty good set of headphones to really shine. It doesn't do well on cheaper heasets, whereas CMSS-3D headphone (X-Fi) is more forgiving.

I would rank the solutions I've used for positional audio in games something like this

X-Fi CMSS-3D headphone = Xonar Dolby Heaphone
5.1 Headsets (I've only used Speedlink Medusas)
Stereo headphones / headset with good headstage / detail but no virtualisation
Stereo headphones / headset with poor headstage / detail and no virtualisation

 

[ourfpshero]

lol at that. you are almost 100% correct. on top of that list i would put native ds3d/ openal eax4 or 5 games on an x-fi in headphone mode.
then at #2 cmss-3d and dolby headphone on surround sound supporting (but not ds3d/openal) games

for ultimate 3d sound- play unreal tournament 3 or battlefield 2142 with an x-fi in headphone mode. they are a high water mark in 3d audio and probably wont be surpassed in a long time given the going-backwards state of 3d audio development.

anyway- back to pc350 mod mode......

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ourfpshero /img/forum/go_quote.gif lol at that. you are almost 100% correct. on top of that list i would put native ds3d/ openal eax4 or 5 games on an x-fi in headphone mode. then at #2 cmss-3d and dolby headphone on surround sound supporting (but not ds3d/openal) games for ultimate 3d sound- play unreal tournament 3 of battlefield 2142 with an x-fi in headphone mode. they are a high water mark in 3d audio and probably wont be surpassed in a long time given the going-backwards state of 3d audio development. anyway- back to pc350 mod mode......

Indeed. Easy to go off at a tangent... I was including EAX4 and 5 games on X-Fi. They still use CMSS-3D for positioning just add environmental effects (edit: save for elevation filter, which I've never really been convinced by).

Anyway. No reason why there shouldn't be a fine sounding headset. I'm intrigued that something so simple should improve the PC350 so significantly. I'm still on the lookout for a great-sounding set of cans with a mike and don't see why they should be so few and far between. Getting tired of wearing the old medusas around my neck for the boom mike...

 

[Peyotero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meloncoly /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would never use a headset for positioning in FPS, that's dumb (no offense). I would have a standalone mic and use a dedicated headphone. I would get way better positioning with that setup instead of a headset. Best gaming setup I had was the A900 + Desktop Boom Mic. That gave me awesome positioning in terms of if the shot was fired above, below, behind, front, right or left.

No offense taken as I don't own a headset and am not a serious gamer but you just strenthen the point that there are not much decent headset out there. I was just saying that positionioning would be the most important aspect if you wanted to design a gaming headphone. And you wouldn't be really able to call it a "gaming headphone" if you didn't add a mic to the salad, would you?

Also not talking from experience here but WTH are you guys talking about? 5.1 medusas? cmss sound effects? that's not the Head-fi way

it might sound impressive and cool but nothing to do with realistic sound representetion. If anything, it'd only f00k up the imaging.
I'll stick to plain `ol stereo for a while. The rest looks like just a gimmick as of now..

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also not talking from experience here but WTH are you guys talking about? 5.1 medusas? cmss sound effects? that's not the Head-fi way it might sound impressive and cool but nothing to do with realistic sound representetion. If anything, it'd only f00k up the imaging. I'll stick to plain `ol stereo for a while. The rest looks like just a gimmick as of now..

OK - forget the 5.1 medusas. Red Herring there (and such poor sound quality too). The rest is really "plain 'ol stereo" anyway.

Try some of the other things before knocking them. You might be surprised.

 

[ourfpshero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif No offense taken as I don't own a headset and am not a serious gamer but you just strenthen the point that there are not much decent headset out there. I was just saying that positionioning would be the most important aspect if you wanted to design a gaming headphone. And you wouldn't be really able to call it a "gaming headphone" if you didn't add a mic to the salad, would you? Also not talking from experience here but WTH are you guys talking about? 5.1 medusas? cmss sound effects? that's not the Head-fi way it might sound impressive and cool but nothing to do with realistic sound representetion. If anything, it'd only f00k up the imaging. I'll stick to plain `ol stereo for a while. The rest looks like just a gimmick as of now..

lol -cmss/dolby/3d sound are of course headfi topics. we all change the sound with everything we buy, mod, etc. gaming sounds better through better equipment just like anything else. 3d sound is important to us fps shooter types. if i wanted realistic sound repping i wouldnt play games

 

[Peyotero]

That's not what I meant. Of cource we all change the sound in a way that fits us. It's just that most atempts I've seen to do it digitaly had some serious flaws in it. Digital EQ on mediocoure daps or low fi sound cards adds distortion or plain doing it wrong.
As for gaming it's just that I've read on some forum where a guy said that when he tried to play CS with some of Creative's soundstage effects they just messed up his orientation compared to "stock".
Dunno. Maybe they've improved since then. I use a laptop so no x-fi aound card here. But if I'll decide to get back to tower comps and still care about first person shooters till then, I'll check some of that stuff.

 

[ourfpshero]

thats cool. peeps do it wrong on sound cards all the time. i actually read a guide on the x-fi from creative labs themselves when the x-fi 1st came out. for instance- half life 2 games (like counter strike source) have their own sound engine and adding an eax effect would just make it weird. its so ez to screw up that many would just get turned off to it. having so many options is great for power users but confusing for others

 

[ear8dmg]

And to be fair, earlier attempts by Creative at 3d heaphone effects just didn't work very well.

My point was, any stereo headphones or headset can only portray the positional effects they're given. This isn't like a good recording from a classical concert, that captures something of the essence of the venue and the performance. With gaming audio, you are listening to a sketch, a simulation. The soundstage has to be simulated for the headphones to capture it. I think of gaming audio usually being quite similar to a 4 track recording before a sound engineer has got hold of it, with a little crossfeed. It's raw, two dimensional.

Ourfpshero is right that it's about improving the source. It's just that Dolby Headphone EAX (particularly), CMSS3D etc can in some ways be thought of as part of the source material. It's like mastering music for headphones rather than speakers. One doesn't always sound quite right on the other.

Positional audio is not the headset's or headphone's job, unless it's one of those USB efforts with a sound chip included. The PC350 isn't one of those so it relies on the soundcard to provide the positional information for it to present to the listener.

 

[Gamerphile]

-

 

[ourfpshero]

i think its ok to criticize any product truthfully. how the product came to be and compromises, market realites, etc, are not what the end user needs to hear. the end user wants the best prodect fot their $$
i have owned many many senn headphones and headsets. i generally love their sound but the headSETS have lagged. their 150/160 series headsets have been no better, and sometimes worse, than the other gaming junkola out there. i kept my pc151 a whole day! it was substantially worse than a steelsound 4h that i still have.

when i got the pc350 i had high hopes. it just sounded like flat garbage. i dont care that it might have been tuned for 2kz voice reproduction or some such nonsense (i'm not an aviator or a pit crew chief). i expected a mid senn sound like an hd280 or 595 with a mic attached. any number of peeps at senn had to have thought this headset sounded weak but kept quiet for whatever reason. any backyard idiot who's ever enclosed a speaker for his car knows that tiny non-ported enclosures sound like crap.

 

[crapback]

Thanks ourfpshero, now I don't have to think about putting campbell's soup labels on my 350's. I do still have a craving for grilled cheese though.

OMG!!! It finally let me post a reply! It only took me about 20 attempts for the system to stop looping me around telling me i need to refresh the page and log in again...

Thanks to this site I am now addicted to audio crack. An amazon recommendation for the nuforce icon mobile and a google search led me here to head-fi. Based on headphoneaddict's review i purchased the nuforce hoping it would add some low end life to my senn headset. The improvement in overall clarity and detail was amazing after about 3 hours with the amp and it seems to be smoothing out the more i run it. It was the drilling of five 1/8" holes that really brought some bottom end to the 350's. It's like a completely different set of phones now, like what i was originally expecting from something with the sennheiser name. I was only in the market for a killer headset and the "professional" reviews and the prestige of the sennheiser name convinced me to drop the $150 on these things. Now i don't have to keep throwing out my hip kicking myself for doing so. Well, i guess i can rest my kicking leg till tuesday when the set of dt990's i ordered should arrive.

You jerks are a bunch of enablers.

I have always been able to talk myself out of spending the money on a high end set of headphones for years now. Then i find these forums.
I'm not an addict, i can quit any time i want.