[mikemalter]

I think it's a good idea to get a stand-alone DAC.  That way you can evolve parts of your system over time.

 

[kendrab]

This thread has been a great source of info for me, and has convinced me to get a Havana DAC for my system.
I ran across a used Havana DAC online, with Bendix 2c51 and WE 396a tubes included as well as upgraded output caps for $650.
It is ordered, and I should have it in a week or so.
 
My plan is to feed it a signal from my Windows 7 PC with J. River Media Center running WASAPI through a USB cable to an Audiophilleo 2 USB to SPDIF convertor. This is an extremely low jitter asynchronous USB to SPDIF convertor, with jitter rated at less than 5 ps.  It was indicated in this thread that R2R NOS DAC's are sensitive to jitter, so this should help quite a bit.
 
I will spend the first month using a Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB cable direct from my PC, and will add the Audiophilleo 2 in about a month.
If the Havana DAC is as good as it is reputed to be, I will eventually tweak it further. I want to get this DAC performing at its best, as I plan on keeping it for a long time.
 
From what I have gathered, the following are potential upgrades:
 
Replace the OEM fuse with a 5 mm x 20 mm 400 mA Slow Blow fuse from Hi Fi Tuning or Furutech
Use a JW WE 396a vacuum tube from the 50's
Replace the two input caps /0.01 uf/ with russian NOS military glass silver mica 
Replace C12 - 1000 pf silver mica  with 0.01 uf silver mica
Replace the four electolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones 
electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones elreplacing four electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones replacing four electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones replacing four electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones electrolyticelelelUpgrade the output caps to something between 2-3.6 uF 600VA (don't know what this DAC was upgraded with yet).
Replace the resistors around the tube socket with low noise tantalum versions
Upgrade from the Burr Brown PCM56L DAC chips to a higher spec Burr Brown PCM56J's (preferrably from Japan??), provided I can get a matched set (How do you test for a proper match anyway?)
Mounting the Havana DAC on good vibration damping feet, like Vibracones with Vibrapods to reduce microphonic influences.
Use a good non-shielded power cord
  
I will start with replacing the fuse, as it seems to have an impact on how the tubes sound.
Then I will order a good cryoed vacuum tube, like a 1954 JW-2C51 WE
The next step will be to mount the DAC on a set of Vibrapods and matching vibracones, to reduce vibration.
I will try to find a set of matched DAC chips to replace the current ones, prefferably in the PCM56J versions, although I am also willing to try a set of AD1856NK 's for comparison.
 
At this point, I will evaluate if I need to take things further. If I do take anothernext step, it will be to have the caps and resistors replaced by a competent company like Parts Connexion.
 
 
 

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

tential upgrades:
Upgrade from the Burr Brown PCM56L DAC chips to a higher spec Burr Brown PCM56J's (preferrably from Japan??), provided I can get a matched set (How do you test for a proper match anyway?)
 
 
 

FYI the highest grade is K for the PCM56 chips, I doubt very seriously if any chips are matched or can be matched realistically. Also they have not been made in Japan for years, in fact they are no longer produced at all...only chips from Malaysia are available until stock runs out.  For what its worth they are still BB chips just from a different factory.
 

 

[kendrab]

Quote:

Thanks guys, all clear, It's time to get K grade ones and test them now.

If you find a source for these, let me know, as I want to buy a set as well.
 

 

[kendrab]

Quote:

I am happy you are pleased with the replacement. Let's see what is happening after I send you the matched couple from the KENWOOD. Otherwise the coupe you got seems OK to me.
Cheers
 

Do you have a set of matched PCM56P-k's you are willing to sell?
I am looking at ordering a pair from Arrow  at $13.07 USD each, but am not sure if they are a close match or what, and they couldn't tell me anything beyong the fact these are the top of the line and are a closer match as a result.
 


Quote:

Sorry Robert, I have just payed attention - your DAC/s are J grade and I will send you a K grade which is the top grade. So do not order J grade please.
Cheers

 

 

[milosolo]

Is it really necessary to do these mods to make it function/sound better? It makes me wonder why something in this price range should need such extensive mods and why it doesn't perform better out of the box? You might as well go the DIY route. I don't have the time nor desire to mess around with something this much so I guess I'll pass on this unit. Good luck with it! 
 
Quote:

This thread has been a great source of info for me, and has convinced me to get a Havana DAC for my system.
I ran across a used Havana DAC online, with Bendix 2c51 and WE 396a tubes included as well as upgraded output caps for $650.
It is ordered, and I should have it in a week or so.
 
My plan is to feed it a signal from my Windows 7 PC with J. River Media Center running WASAPI through a USB cable to an Audiophilleo 2 USB to SPDIF convertor. This is an extremely low jitter asynchronous USB to SPDIF convertor, with jitter rated at less than 5 ps.  It was indicated in this thread that R2R NOS DAC's are sensitive to jitter, so this should help quite a bit.
 
I will spend the first month using a Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB cable direct from my PC, and will add the Audiophilleo 2 in about a month.
If the Havana DAC is as good as it is reputed to be, I will eventually tweak it further. I want to get this DAC performing at its best, as I plan on keeping it for a long time.
 
From what I have gathered, the following are potential upgrades:
 
Replace the OEM fuse with a 5 mm x 20 mm 400 mA Slow Blow fuse from Hi Fi Tuning or Furutech
Use a JW WE 396a vacuum tube from the 50's
Replace the two input caps /0.01 uf/ with russian NOS military glass silver mica 
Replace C12 - 1000 pf silver mica  with 0.01 uf silver mica
Replace the four electolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones 
electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones elreplacing four electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones replacing four electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones replacing four electrolytic caps in the signal path with non-polar ones electrolyticelelelUpgrade the output caps to something between 2-3.6 uF 600VA (don't know what this DAC was upgraded with yet).
Replace the resistors around the tube socket with low noise tantalum versions
Upgrade from the Burr Brown PCM56L DAC chips to a higher spec Burr Brown PCM56J's (preferrably from Japan??), provided I can get a matched set (How do you test for a proper match anyway?)
Mounting the Havana DAC on good vibration damping feet, like Vibracones with Vibrapods to reduce microphonic influences.
Use a good non-shielded power cord
  
I will start with replacing the fuse, as it seems to have an impact on how the tubes sound.
Then I will order a good cryoed vacuum tube, like a 1954 JW-2C51 WE
The next step will be to mount the DAC on a set of Vibrapods and matching vibracones, to reduce vibration.
I will try to find a set of matched DAC chips to replace the current ones, prefferably in the PCM56J versions, although I am also willing to try a set of AD1856NK 's for comparison.
 
At this point, I will evaluate if I need to take things further. If I do take anothernext step, it will be to have the caps and resistors replaced by a competent company like Parts Connexion.
 
 
 

 

 

[brasewel]

Quote:

Is it really necessary to do these mods to make it function/sound better? It makes me wonder why something in this price range should need such extensive mods and why it doesn't perform better out of the box? You might as well go the DIY route. I don't have the time nor desire to mess around with something this much so I guess I'll pass on this unit. Good luck with it! 
 


 

It is not necessary to perform these mods. The Havana sounds great unmodded and upgrading the tubes should give you the sound you are looking for.
 

 

[niamex]

Quote:

Do you have a set of matched PCM56P-k's you are willing to sell?
I am looking at ordering a pair from Arrow  at $13.07 USD each, but am not sure if they are a close match or what, and they couldn't tell me anything beyong the fact these are the top of the line and are a closer match as a result.
 

Kendrab  you are going on the right way IMHO. The HAVANA is a very simple DAC without the upgrades.
- the fuse I have simply eliminated replacing it with a FURUTECH  pure silver wire ?!?
-JV is nothing compared to BENDIX - any !!
- absolutely right about the silver micas
- the non polar caps - NICHICON and resistors - 6 pcs around the tube you will find in England - SHINKOH   http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html-     the most silent resistors ever
 - the matched couple of K grade of  DAC's  you can find ONLY in some old top level CD players of SONY or KENWOOD and some other brands on Ebay.
 
And be aware - it is not the end - you will have to think about separate transformers for the analogue and digital sections, SHOTKYES diodes, better filtering caps, BNC digital output etc. - be quiet !
 
Regards
-

 
 

 

 

[kendrab]

 
Quote:

Is it really necessary to do these mods to make it function/sound better? It makes me wonder why something in this price range should need such extensive mods and why it doesn't perform better out of the box? You might as well go the DIY route. I don't have the time nor desire to mess around with something this much so I guess I'll pass on this unit. Good luck with it! 
 


 

There are plenty of people who have Havana DACs and are perfectly happy with them. It was the fact the Havana DAC got such good reviews from owners here that made me buy one. When I listed the possible modifications in my previous post, it was partly to summarize what other people were doing. It was not a must do "prescription" for a bad design. Rather it is an ingredient list that can be mixed in as desired to make a very good DAC an even better one.
 
I have a modest income, and will never be able to buy the latest in Audio Research or DCS D/A conversion. But I can take a great DAC purchased at a good price ($700 with spare tubes) and put another $400-$500 into it to make it better. Given that I am trying to maximize 16 bit 44.1 kHz files and have no interest in 24 bit 96 kHz/192 kHz files, the Havana DAC is a really good fit for me. Making a few changes to enhance its already solid performance will simply make that fit a little better.

 
 

 

[robeeert1]

Kendrap,
 
Make the following changes:
 
First of all replace the chip (the stock one is really bad) with PCM56P-K grade (made in Korea or made in Japan)  remember  "K" grade only (made in Japan is a little better)
Replace the tube with Bendix 6385,
Replace three caps with Russian silver mica ones.
 
 
After these mods you can compare Havana to $3k worth DACs
 
 
 
 
 

 

[kendrab]

Quote:

Kendrap,
 
Make the following changes:
 
First of all replace the chip (the stock one is really bad) with PCM56P-K grade (made in Korea or made in Japan)  remember  "K" grade only (made in Japan is a little better)
Replace the tube with Bendix 6385,
Replace three caps with Russian silver mica ones.
 
 
After these mods you can compare Havana to $3k worth DACs
 
 
 
 
 

I have two sets of PCM56P-K DAC chips on order from Arrow Electronics.
I hope they are from Korea or Japan, but am not positive.
But at $13.09 each, it is a relatively small gamble.
If they don't work out, I will consider that set you told me about.
 
As far as tubes go, I have a JW Western Electric 396a right now, and I have a line on one of the rare Bendix TE-21 tubes that were used by the military.
At about $100, it is a little expensive, but I have heard good things about it. If it is still available in mid-September, I will order it up.
 
Are the white capacitors in the pictures the ones to be upgraded to silver mica versions?
Would these silver mica capacitors be a suitable choice? http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_silvermica.html 
If not, where do I find NOS Russian silver mica caps?
 

 

[robeeert1]

Quote:

I have two sets of PCM56P-K DAC chips on order from Arrow Electronics.
I hope they are from Korea or Japan, but am not positive.
But at $13.09 each, it is a relatively small gamble.
If they don't work out, I will consider that set you told me about.
 
As far as tubes go, I have a JW Western Electric 396a right now, and I have a line on one of the rare Bendix TE-21 tubes that were used by the military.
At about $100, it is a little expensive, but I have heard good things about it. If it is still available in mid-September, I will order it up.
 
Are the white capacitors in the pictures the ones to be upgraded to silver mica versions?
Would these silver mica capacitors be a suitable choice? http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_silvermica.html 
If not, where do I find NOS Russian silver mica caps?
 

 

Arrow Electronics don't have Korean nor Japanese chips PCM56P. They have Malaysian. (ask headfier "niamex" about their sound, he owns some pairs)
The best cheap is from Japan K-grade, you can find it only purchasing a vintage cd player. You can have it for about $100, but believe me it's worth
buying. Korean chips PCM56P-K are also very good.
Bendix 6385 is the best, if you have a chance to get it for $100 good condition,  do not hesitate. Ask the seller about the year of manufacture.
Bendix 6385 from '50 and Bendix 6385 from '60 are different sounding ones.
 
About the Russian caps 0,1uF ask my friend "niamex", He's the one who shipped me some of them.
They are on the photo below.
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 

 

[kendrab]

"The best cheap is from Japan K-grade, you can find it only purchasing a vintage cd player." """
 
I think I found a CD player with the right Burr-Brown PCM56P-K chipsets.
It is a Yamaha CDX-910U Natural Sound CD Player , and I can get it for $110 CAD.
Can anyone confirm this has the proper K level chips?
 
I will be using them for my Havana DAC.

 

[s1rrah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendrab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I have a modest income, and will never be able to buy the latest in Audio Research or DCS D/A conversion. But I can take a great DAC purchased at a good price ($700 with spare tubes) and put another $400-$500 into it to make it better. Given that I am trying to maximize 16 bit 44.1 kHz files and have no interest in 24 bit 96 kHz/192 kHz files, the Havana DAC is a really good fit for me. Making a few changes to enhance its already solid performance will simply make that fit a little better.
 

 
x2
 

 
 

 

[kendrab]

I recently upgraded to a set of Burr-Brown PCM56PK-K chips from a used Denon CD player. They made a noticeable improvement in sound quality, with my music having a bit more punch, clarity, and a slightly broadened/deepened soundstage.
 
As a note to anyone thinking of switching DAC chips on a Mdht Labs Havana DAC: It is easy to remove the old chips, but it can be a real pain to get the new chips back in the socket. Get one row of pins started, and then use a jeweller's small flat screwdriver to coax the 2nd row of pins into place. I rate this as being better than a tube upgrade, and in my case, it was less expensive too!