[CaptainFantastic]

I've been mainly using a portable setup (Headstage Arrow 5TX EBB + CIEM) due to work travel. Looking to buy the Empyrean for home use. Since the arrow is most likely not ideal, seeking recommendations for a dac + amp to pair with the empyrean...looking to spend around $1K max.

For pretty much exactly 1k DAC + AMP look at the RME ADI-2 DAC. Its internal amp is more than enough and the measurements are excellent + tons of functionalities.

I am a future Empyrean buyer, so I haven't tried to combo myself, but the ADI-2 is an amazing unit that works very well with everything else that I've tried. I wonder if anyone in this thread has paired the two.

 

[LeMat]

Yes, I have both. Frankly, I wouldn't call either 'bright', and it's not really a 'this is warmer than that' story. E2 has a bit of recessed treble but is pretty linear otherwise. Empy has a bit of emphasized mid-bass/lower mids, which to me make it seem a bit warmer, in contrast to the slightly more emphasized treble, which make it seem a bit brighter.

Mostly agree with this, although I would have said:
Empyrean with leather pads > Empyrean with velour pads > Ether 2 with standard pads

...

Agree that E2 seems 'thinner', but disagree about sub-bass and headstage. I find the E2 bass very well extended, with great character. E2 stage is open and expansive while Empy stage is enveloping. To me, Empy seems 'lush' while E2 seems 'spare'. And for me, voices can go either way, depending on the singer and the mix. And, I (politely I hope) disagree with the overall assessment of of E2 being 'nothing to compare' with Empy. I like them both as Empy has really been growing on me. But E2 is wonderful for tracks which are mixed to have an open, airy stage (Loreena McKennitt).

Honestly, at first listen, Empy might seem more appealing as it has a more 'fun', accessible tonality, while E2 can seem leaner and less musical. But over time, Empy turns out to have excellent technicalities which overcome it's 'fun' facade, while E2 presents a refined and detailed soundscape.

BTW, switching to a silver cable, swapping tubes in my Liquid Platinum amp (from Siemens E88CC/CCa to Brimar CV-2492) and rolling in a Gumby vs my Denafrips Pontus DAC all have helped me appreciate the Empy more. Note that I only use the suede Empy pads -- I find the leather Empy pads to be too warm (tonally, not temperature).

Very interesting comparison! Thanks. I get they are tonaly quite close, E2 being a bit more neutral/less fun than the Empy. Beyond the tonality, have you noticed any major difference in their resolving power? I did read non consistent points of view on the E2, some saying it's very resolving, some saying it's average (Elear or Clear level).

 

[LCMusicLover]

Very interesting comparison! Thanks. I get they are tonaly quite close, E2 being a bit more neutral/less fun than the Empy. Beyond the tonality, have you noticed any major difference in their resolving power? I did read non consistent points of view on the E2, some saying it's very resolving, some saying it's average (Elear or Clear level).

It's actually hard to answer that question, which is probably the source of the varied opinions. There's a temptation to call Empy more detailed as its highs are a bit more pronounced. However, while E2 produces detail more subtly, it is there. On the other hand, Empy might seem less detailed due to the mid-bass/lower-mid rise which, on some tracks, could obscure high frequency detail.

I'm not familiar enough with Clear or Elear to compare the level of detail produced by Empy/E2. I would say that neither produces detail at the level of Utopia, but neither comes off as 'un-detailed' by comparison. Both are approximately as detailed as my Auteur, slightly less detailed than HEKv2, and a bit further below Utopia. On the other hand, both are more detailed than my (stock) HD-6xx.

I would say that the two are relatively close in the level of detail they produce, and any differences are either due to, or over-shadowed by, differences in tonality. Also, the differences between the headstages of the two sets are striking and more significant than differences in detail production.

BTW, all my impressions are based on stock pads on Utopia, HEKv2 and Ether 2, suede pads on Empy, and perforated Auteur pads.

Hope that helps -- sorry I can't be more exact.

 

[azeral]

Did we ever get the serials of the Empyreans which were claimed to be substantially different? They are printed above the right earcup as mentioned before.

I have to admit that I'm suspicious of this as a true quality control issue, and were I in Meze's shoes, I'd be pretty hesitant to pay for overseas shipping and engineering time to check out a unit that "sounds better" than another to some guy on the internet.

 

[ken6217]

Did we ever get the serials of the Empyreans which were claimed to be substantially different? They are printed above the right earcup as mentioned before.

I have to admit that I'm suspicious of this as a true quality control issue, and were I in Meze's shoes, I'd be pretty hesitant to pay for overseas shipping and engineering time to check out a unit that "sounds better" than another to some guy on the internet.

Let them get more than 10 hours on the headphones and close to two hundred hours that he has on the other ones before coming to any determination.

 

[bimmer100]

I have two pairs of empyreans and had extensively tested them with a few different amps and can’t tell one sounds better than the other, but the easiest to test them with is the ifi pro Ican with the dual 3pin and single 4pin out. But had tried with hpa4 and azure and. But anyhow, with blind test I would t be able to tell them apart. But pad swaps are significant enough I could do a blind test and figure which is which pad.

That’s interesting.

The first thing I thought when I saw that amp with dual 1/4 output was if it had impedance difference for each output. As an older amp we sold had dual 1/4 and one was tuned for 300ohm impedance cans and the other was around 30-150ohm range. And if you listen to a pair of headphones in wrong output they sound bloated. But seems that amp has dual output and the same impedance? interesting. As all the other cans were tested too.

The more hours the empyreans have they do relax a bit in sound.

 

[LeMat]

It's actually hard to answer that question, which is probably the source of the varied opinions. There's a temptation to call Empy more detailed as its highs are a bit more pronounced. However, while E2 produces detail more subtly, it is there. On the other hand, Empy might seem less detailed due to the mid-bass/lower-mid rise which, on some tracks, could obscure high frequency detail.

I'm not familiar enough with Clear or Elear to compare the level of detail produced by Empy/E2. I would say that neither produces detail at the level of Utopia, but neither comes off as 'un-detailed' by comparison. Both are approximately as detailed as my Auteur, slightly less detailed than HEKv2, and a bit further below Utopia. On the other hand, both are more detailed than my (stock) HD-6xx.

I would say that the two are relatively close in the level of detail they produce, and any differences are either due to, or over-shadowed by, differences in tonality. Also, the differences between the headstages of the two sets are striking and more significant than differences in detail production.

BTW, all my impressions are based on stock pads on Utopia, HEKv2 and Ether 2, suede pads on Empy, and perforated Auteur pads.

Hope that helps -- sorry I can't be more exact.

Thanks for these details! Really helpful.
In the end, it seems we're almost splitting hairs when it comes to tonality or detail retrieval. A bit more here, a bit less there... It's like some EQing could bring those 2 cans to the same tonality, and only the soundstage would tell them apart... an improvement on soundstage worth 1k (beside design, quality and confort)
Here is an interesting review on the Ether 2 that has just been published.

 

[Currawong]

You'll always get some variation between pairs of the same headphones. This is far from anything new. Sennheiser, for example, used to measure each pair of HD800 headphones, and offer an FR chart for each individual pair. There is a thread somewhere where people were posting their charts. There was quite a bit of variance. Innerfidelity should still have Tyll's old measurements too, where he measured multiple pairs of a number of headphones.

 

[ken6217]

You'll always get some variation between pairs of the same headphones. This is far from anything new. Sennheiser, for example, used to measure each pair of HD800 headphones, and offer an FR chart for each individual pair. There is a thread somewhere where people were posting their charts. There was quite a bit of variance. Innerfidelity should still have Tyll's old measurements too, where he measured multiple pairs of a number of headphones.

Ah yes, the good ole days. Who could forget his debacle with the LCD-4

 

[MadDane]

You'll always get some variation between pairs of the same headphones. This is far from anything new. Sennheiser, for example, used to measure each pair of HD800 headphones, and offer an FR chart for each individual pair. There is a thread somewhere where people were posting their charts. There was quite a bit of variance. Innerfidelity should still have Tyll's old measurements too, where he measured multiple pairs of a number of headphones.

I believe Audeze still includes a USB stick with each new headphone's sound signature.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

I believe Audeze still includes a USB stick with each new headphone's sound signature.

A USB stick yes. But not with the sound signature. Not the MX4s and 2CB I bought in 2018.

 

[popof94]

Did we ever get the serials of the Empyreans which were claimed to be substantially different? They are printed above the right earcup as mentioned before.

I have to admit that I'm suspicious of this as a true quality control issue, and were I in Meze's shoes, I'd be pretty hesitant to pay for overseas shipping and engineering time to check out a unit that "sounds better" than another to some guy on the internet.

Sorry for the delay, see below the 2 serial numbers:

For us the best one is the older with serial number 0867.

Édit: sorry, not the older. The 0867 is the more recent headphone.

 

[azeral]

Interesting. They are cranking through these. For what it's worth, I've got #196 (from December of last year) and it sounds fantastic.

 

[LCMusicLover]

Mine are 0205 -- shipped from Romania Feb 12.

Listening to Empy right now -- Afro-Celt Sound System are really well presented

 

[Jwakeford]

Sorry for the delay, see below the 2 serial numbers:

For us the best one is the older with serial number 0867.

Édit: sorry, not the older. The 0867 is the more recent headphone.

Thank god my unit was manufactured in June, and I am awaiting shipping, I am relieved I am not concerned by this plague !
Even if my unit had been fine now I would be all worked up not knowing if my unit was to its best...