[XERO1]

Didn't hear the Utopia. Honestly, after my ears were sanded down by the Clear in one of the brighter/less pleasant listening experiences ever, I couldn't handle the thought of any more brightness. Was it the amp? The headphone? The audio gods tricking me? Who knows...I lasted just 5" w/the Clear, then bagged it.

Not to get too OT, but when I auditioned the Clear's at The Source AV, on a whim I listened to them through 3 different amps in relatively quick succession. All three were side-by-side (Simaudio 430 HAD, Simaudio 230 HAD, ENIGMAcoustics A1) and I used the same source with them all. I was pretty shocked by how each amp made the Clear's sound significantly different, especially since two of the amps were both SS and from the same manufacturer. This experience taught me that I should never fully judge how a headphone sounds until I hear it on a system that I am extremely familiar (and happy) with.

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

@XERO1 that's because of the rollercoaster-like impedance of Focal headphones. This graph is for the Utopia but also applies to the Clear, see how much the frequency response changes when plugged to an amplifier with an output impedance higher than 0.
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/focal/utopia/

 

[XERO1]

Yeah, I agree that the Focal's huge impedance swing will have a dramatic effect on their FR with tube amps that have higher output impedances. And since the Focal's impedance peak is centered in the low bass range, the ENIGMAcoustics A1 tube amp seemed to boost the Clear's low bass by about 5dB (which actually sounded pretty awesome ). But what also surprised me was how completely different the 430HAD and 230HAD sounded through the Clear. The Clear's sounded smooth and even with the 430HAD, while the 230HAD made them sound much brighter and even harsh, to the point that I could see someone not wanting them if they always sounded like that. And since both Simaudio amps are SS and have output impedances well below 1 Ohm, I didn't expect them to sound that different from each other, but they really did.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I'm just a guy who loves headphone audio--not a reviewer, I had no set list of people to meet or headphones to hear--certainly didn't intend to do a tour of endgame headphones (though that's partly how it worked out).

Didn't hear the Utopia. Honestly, after my ears were sanded down by the Clear in one of the brighter/less pleasant listening experiences ever, I couldn't handle the thought of any more brightness. Was it the amp? The headphone? The audio gods tricking me? Who knows...I lasted just 5" w/the Clear, then bagged it.

Didn't listen to the LCD-4 for a couple reasons. Saturday early afternoon was a madhouse at the Audeze booth. I waited for awhile to hear the LCD-2C (very much in my price range & on my list of "gotta hear it" HPs)--then barely could hear it due to the noise. The LCD-4 was on the other side of the table, 2 people down from me, on another person's head. I left, thinking I'd come back, but never did. I did hear an LCD-3 several months ago and was very impressed (brief listen). Listening to a borrowed pair of LCD-2Fs, very impressed by that. So odds are the LCD-4 wouldn't knocked me out...

Re the Auteur, I heard them 2-3X during the show, but found out only afterward that the warmer pads weren't on them (which made sense, since they sounded a bit too neutral/flat in upper midrange to my ears). So unfortunately, it's like I never heard the Auteur at all, since my preference would surely be for the warmer pads (I'm very familiar w/the Eikon & the basic sound profile of this driver). So I now have to find a way to audition the Auteur w/warmer pads...only then will really know what to think. FYI, the Auteur is drop-dead beautiful, especially the Blackwood.

Besides the very impressive Empyrean, I heard another endgame open-back planar that boasts unique driver design (Final HD8000). That one really rocked me, too, though it sounded nothing like the Empyrean.

Even if I'd heard a bunch of endgame HPs, it's hard to articulate meaningful comparisons after relatively brief exposures during show conditions.

Overall comment: I learned years ago that the big $$ speakers, amps, preamps, other stuff out there exist to drive me nuts w/audio lust; and educate me about optimal sound quality. I couldn't afford endgame 2-channel audio gear, just as I can't afford endgame headphones. But every exposure to these designs is a learning experience, and I'm grateful for it. It also drives me nuts, which seems to be my preferred state of being.

If price was not an issue, which headphone do you like more between the Empyrean and D8000? And why?

 

[Pharmaboy]

If price was not an issue, which headphone do you like more between the Empyrean and D8000? And why?

That's a terrific question. Honest answer: my brain was lit up by the HD8000 (I admired everything about it); but my heart was lit up by the Empyrean (I loved everything about it). Part of this emotional response is due to the luscious/detailed/warm midrange...and a huge part is the beautiful look of the Empyrean. It's a design triumph IMO...a feast for the eyes.

I fantasize about buying an Empyrean...or begging for a review pair (as if that would ever happen). So the obvious answer is: the Empyrean.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

That's a terrific question. Honest answer: my brain was lit up by the HD8000 (I admired everything about it); but my heart was lit up by the Empyrean (I loved everything about it). Part of this emotional response is due to the luscious/detailed/warm midrange...and a huge part is the beautiful look of the Empyrean. It's a design triumph IMO...a feast for the eyes.

I fantasize about buying an Empyrean...or begging for a review pair (as if that would ever happen). So the obvious answer is: the Empyrean.

Which one sounded the most neutral to your ears?

 

[Pharmaboy]

Hmmm...that's kind of a loaded question, since "neutral" is one of those binary adjectives (ie, it either is neutral, or it isn't) that infest audio discussions. But I'll try to answer it:

Final HD8000: This sounded impressive in many ways from the first moment (heard it twice at CanJam--not lengthy auditions, unfortunately). What jumped out at me was terrific bass, among the best I've ever heard: top-to-bottom coherence, detail, and that special planar lack of distortion. It sounded neutral, in the sense that the frequencies sounded level in amplitude from top to bottom. I heard no overt peaks or valleys. However, another way to define neutrality IMO is how faithfully/accurately the headphone reproduces the known tonality/timbre of certain instruments: this part of it sounded very good at first listen, but I wasn't listening carefully for it.

• So I'll need more listening time to pin down exactly how closely the D8000 adheres to tonal/timbral neutrality, top-to-bottom.

Empyrean: This also sounded extremely impressive from the first moment--but the impressions were basically the reverse of the D8000. The tonal/timbral accuracy sounded outstanding, beyond reproach, especially in the very rich/detailed/euphonic midrange. In other words, music immediately sounded exactly as it should...a quality that is very beguiling; it's what I focused on because it's what I heard strongly at first listen. But I was so impressed by the midrange that I didn't listen w/great care to the other frequencies (though everything sounded just about right & rather good in other frequencies).

• So if I ever audition these again at any length, my 1st task will be to see/hear if the bass & treble equal the midrange in quality & quantity.

I can't give you a binary "this headphone is more neutral than the other" answer because I just don't know enough yet, didn't hear these headpones long enough, to make that judgement...also because neutrality means more than one thing to me.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Hmmm...that's kind of a loaded question, since "neutral" is one of those binary adjectives (ie, it either is neutral, or it isn't) that infest audio discussions. But I'll try to answer it:

Final HD8000: This sounded impressive in many ways from the first moment (heard it twice at CanJam--not lengthy auditions, unfortunately). What jumped out at me was terrific bass, among the best I've ever heard: top-to-bottom coherence, detail, and that special planar lack of distortion. It sounded neutral, in the sense that the frequencies sounded level in amplitude from top to bottom. I heard no overt peaks or valleys. However, another way to define neutrality IMO is how faithfully/accurately the headphone reproduces the known tonality/timbre of certain instruments: this part of it sounded very good at first listen, but I wasn't listening carefully for it.

• So I'll need more listening time to pin down exactly how closely the D8000 adheres to tonal/timbral neutrality, top-to-bottom.

Empyrean: This also sounded extremely impressive from the first moment--but the impressions were basically the reverse of the D8000. The tonal/timbral accuracy sounded outstanding, beyond reproach, especially in the very rich/detailed/euphonic midrange. In other words, music immediately sounded exactly as it should...a quality that is very beguiling; it's what I focused on because it's what I heard strongly at first listen. But I was so impressed by the midrange that I didn't listen w/great care to the other frequencies (though everything sounded just about right & rather good in other frequencies).

• So if I ever audition these again at any length, my 1st task will be to see/hear if the bass & treble equal the midrange in quality & quantity.

I can't give you a binary "this headphone is more neutral than the other" answer because I just don't know enough yet, didn't hear these headpones long enough, to make that judgement...also because neutrality means more than one thing to me.

I agree that a term like neutrality is completely subjective. But in this case, with the fact that you’re one of the very few people who have heard these headphones, I simply want your subjective opinion. So whatever neutral means to you, I’m okay with.
The d8000 tech sounds like it could be a game changer for audio fidelity combined with very low distortion. Your impressions may have put me over the edge with curiosity. I’m probably going to buy these within the next few days.
One more question, if you don’t mind. Since both headphones are very pricey, did you have any problems with either of them in terms of build quality and/or comfort?

 

[Pharmaboy]

You're going to buy the HD8000s? Damn, I'm impressed. Wish I had the courage (& depth-of-wallet) to make that move. But then I'd have to buy both the HD8000 & the Empyrean...my head would explode & make quite a mess.

Again, I'll try to answer your question, though w/a brief exposure it's difficult.

• The HD8000 is a physically large, handsome, obviously well made headphone in the Final style--black/round earcups, good pads, w/padded metal headband. They felt good on my head, but not a soft/squishy kind of good. The headband padding, for example, is not super deep or ultra-soft. It felt great, but no telling if longer exposure would wear on me.
• Clamp-force was reasonable. Don't even remember it registering much (one definition of "reasonable"). But given the bullet-proof design of this headphone, I'm sure there's steel inside the leather-bound headband, allowing any degree of loosening/tightening you'd want.
• Thought the pads felt quite good, large diameter, approx same size as the AKG 553's I had a couple yrs ago (~110mm), but w/pads a little deeper--and made of some kind of velour, maybe polyester, w/firm but comfortable inside foam. I liked the pads.
• Weight seemed moderate/reasonable (then again, so does my Ori & my friend's Eikon, so maybe I perceive weight differently).

So to summarize, I thought these headphones felt pretty good. No alarm bells went off. And re the headband, if that becomes a problem (hot-spotting, etc), just get yourself the best headband pad around, the ZMF Pilot Pad. For a headphone of this quality & price, if it needs extra padding on the headband (and I mean only IF it does), that's a small price to pay to make it a non-problem.

If I were on the fence about buying the HD8000, comfort wouldn't be the deciding factor/source of doubts. Price, maybe, but not comfort.

As far as the Empyrean goes, the comfort was basically off-the-chart. The earpads are quite large, deeply padded (very comfortable), and that teardrop shape means they conform to the jawbone/back of ear, where it meets the neck, as well as any HP out there. The headband is not just wide, but suspended/levered in a patented way that that it won't hotspot the top of head. I thought the comfort of the Empyrean was just like its midrange--luscious, sink into it like a big hot-tub.

• The design of the grill on outside of each earcup is just beautiful. Sorry, but I had to mention the visual stuff...

Trying not to make this into a beauty contest. These headphones display very different design aesthetics, both physically & sonically. Both approaches have great value, but people react to the physical stuff (if anything) more different than they do to the sonics.

 

[cskippy]

I hate to correct as it's already OT but @Pharmaboy it's D8000 not HD8000.

 

[Pharmaboy]

damn--and right you are!

I've been writing elsewhere about the HD650; obviously my brain, like the overhead bins in regional aircraft--only can hold so much.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

You're going to buy the HD8000s? Damn, I'm impressed. Wish I had the courage (& depth-of-wallet) to make that move. But then I'd have to buy both the HD8000 & the Empyrean...my head would explode & make quite a mess.

Again, I'll try to answer your question, though w/a brief exposure it's difficult.

• The HD8000 is a physically large, handsome, obviously well made headphone in the Final style--black/round earcups, good pads, w/padded metal headband. They felt good on my head, but not a soft/squishy kind of good. The headband padding, for example, is not super deep or ultra-soft. It felt great, but no telling if longer exposure would wear on me.
• Clamp-force was reasonable. Don't even remember it registering much (one definition of "reasonable"). But given the bullet-proof design of this headphone, I'm sure there's steel inside the leather-bound headband, allowing any degree of loosening/tightening you'd want.
• Thought the pads felt quite good, large diameter, approx same size as the AKG 553's I had a couple yrs ago (~110mm), but w/pads a little deeper--and made of some kind of velour, maybe polyester, w/firm but comfortable inside foam. I liked the pads.
• Weight seemed moderate/reasonable (then again, so does my Ori & my friend's Eikon, so maybe I perceive weight differently).

So to summarize, I thought these headphones felt pretty good. No alarm bells went off. And re the headband, if that becomes a problem (hot-spotting, etc), just get yourself the best headband pad around, the ZMF Pilot Pad. For a headphone of this quality & price, if it needs extra padding on the headband (and I mean only IF it does), that's a small price to pay to make it a non-problem.

If I were on the fence about buying the HD8000, comfort wouldn't be the deciding factor/source of doubts. Price, maybe, but not comfort.

As far as the Empyrean goes, the comfort was basically off-the-chart. The earpads are quite large, deeply padded (very comfortable), and that teardrop shape means they conform to the jawbone/back of ear, where it meets the neck, as well as any HP out there. The headband is not just wide, but suspended/levered in a patented way that that it won't hotspot the top of head. I thought the comfort of the Empyrean was just like its midrange--luscious, sink into it like a big hot-tub.

• The design of the grill on outside of each earcup is just beautiful. Sorry, but I had to mention the visual stuff...

Trying not to make this into a beauty contest. These headphones display very different design aesthetics, both physically & sonically. Both approaches have great value, but people react to the physical stuff (if anything) more different than they do to the sonics.

Once again, I appreciate your feedback. Yes, in a perfect world, I’d be able to have both the Empyrean and D8000 side by side and just choose which one I liked more. But unfortunately, The Empyrean isn’t for sale yet. And in terms of new technology, I’m more impressed with the design of the D8000. Of course I’m talking about the internals, not the outside. The Empyrean is clearly the more sexy of the two aesthetically. But we’re comparing a brand new damping system that gives total control of driver flexion in the D8000 vs just two different trace patterns in the Empyrean. At the end of the day, the Empyrean (and all other open back planars for that matter) still have to deal with low bass distortion because the driver will strike the magnets, or else they have to tune their headphones with that typical dramatic low bass roll off below 40 HZ to prevent too much amplitude modulation.
For those reasons, I am extremely interested in the D8000, but I have one huge problem. I’ve never heard them!

 

[Pharmaboy]

Yeah--that's a big problem when you're thinking of spending big money.

In the unlikely event you're w/in driving distance of NYC, there is one Hi-Fi store that stocks these: Audio46 (www.audio46.com). I actually got their card from the fellow at the Final booth. And given that Final is a Japanese company, I'd bet there's an D8000 on the West Coast, too.

Here's a list of Final dealers: http://snext-final.com/en/dealers/

Re trace patterns vs total control of driver flexion--I'm glad you understand this stuff...I really don't. I'm still trying to understand what "fazor" means!

I tend to trust my ears in these matters. My grasp of audio engineering...not so much.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Yeah--that's a big problem when you're thinking of spending big money.

In the unlikely event you're w/in driving distance of NYC, there is one Hi-Fi store that stocks these: Audio46 (www.audio46.com). I actually got their card from the fellow at the Final booth. And given that Final is a Japanese company, I'd bet there's an D8000 on the West Coast, too.

Here's a list of Final dealers: http://snext-final.com/en/dealers/

Re trace patterns vs total control of driver flexion--I'm glad you understand this stuff...I really don't. I'm still trying to understand what "fazor" means!

I tend to trust my ears in these matters. My grasp of audio engineering...not so much.

Thanks for the info! Fazor is just a fancy word for sound channel. They’re corrigations that prevent the sounds from mixing and creating harmonic distortion. Instead the sound is channeled out in even layers.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

I hate to correct as it's already OT but @Pharmaboy it's D8000 not HD8000.

I REALLY need a Sennheiser HD8000 now!! I don't want to wait till 2070 when it comes out.

All joking aside, I knew what you meant @Pharmaboy ha. Nice of him to clarify it though ( @cskippy ) since other people might be mistaken about what your talking about.