[Brooko]

Sorry but as far as speaker (headphone) cables i am a believer.....

Not trying to change your belief - simply relying on facts.

This was my original review of the MEE P1 - note that since then I've upgraded my calibration files (so the graphs would change especially from 5 kHz up), but this data still shows consistency - same rig, same calibration file. You can clearly see no measurable difference with cables used other than volume.

Cable Changes
I suspected that MEEs custom dynamic driver would be pretty stable – especially as far as impedance goes. While I couldn't measure this, I could measure the effect of different cables to see what if any changes there would be. So for this exercise I measured the included OFC and SPC cables, the FiiO RC-SE1B cable (with a balanced to SE adaptor), the ALO Tinsel, and also an OFC Trinity cable. As you can see from the graph below, there were very slight changes in actual volume (which indicates slight changes in impedance of the cables). But when volume matched, the cables all show the same frequency response. So again – if anyone indicates a more expensive cable as giving better sound-stage, vibrancy, bass/mids/treble etc – simply smile, ignore them, and adjust the volume. It should net the same results.



Three images show:

• Raw data 5 cables
• Left to right - FiiO SPC, Trinity OFC, ALO Tinsel SPC, MEE SPC
• All cables after volume matching

 

[Brooko]

Oops double post

 

[Ichos]

I have read your review (well almost all of your reviews) long time ago!
I am not trying to contradict science (i have a phd at physics) but there are things that cannot be measured or need
to be in depth measured.
Never mentioned frequency change and never heard it with cables.
But still there are very audible differences regarding clarity , dynamics , detail heard and separation etc.
Not only with headphone cables but also with speaker cables.
Stiil i can't hear differences with power cables and i can spot minimal differences with interconnects.
All observations are done volume matched and my 2 channel rig is a quality nearfield system in a heavily treated and measured room.
Still not trying to start another cable debate so i respect your (and others) opinions and i am not trying
to persuade anyone.

 

[Luigi Milazzo]

Sometimes a cable believer only needs to write something. We have to patiently wait until they read their own statements and see how they proclame themselves like superhuman that hear something unmeasurable.

 

[Brooko]

Hey - if he gets more pleasure from an upgraded cable - I say go for it.

All I'm pointing out is that different cables with different impedance produce different levels of volume. We humans hear something louder and with music it seems to us that it is:

- more dynamic
- better separation
- clearer
- more detailed
- more spacious
etc

Its natural human nature and how we are wired. We can't escape our biology.

The interesting thing with the P1 is that if you volume match properly (within 0.2 dB - using an SPL meter and test tones), then blind test the music volume matched through the two different cables, I guarantee you won't notice a difference. The P1 cable has high impedance, so it will usually sound softer (lower volume) that whatever you compare it to.

But the measure of the worth of the machine is the pleasure people get out of it. If a different cable gives you more pleasure (regardless of the actual audible sonic difference), then by all means get the cable. I get different cables for aesthetics / pliability etc. If others get perceived sound benefits (regardless of actual existence), then it is still real to them.

 

[Ichos]

Sometimes a cable believer only needs to write something. We have to patiently wait until they read their own statements and see how they proclame themselves like superhuman that hear something unmeasurable.

I wouldn't bet if I were you.
You need to make in depth measurements to explain what can be or cannot be heard and still sometimes there are parameters that cannot be measured at least with the consumer tools we use.

Frequency response is the less reliable method to explain what we hear.

The following two amps measure the same and are dead flat.

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v200.php

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v100.php

Still volume matched with the same headphone and source they do sound different.

If you cannot hear it you got a blessing.
Buy yourself an O2 amp and you are done!

 

[Luigi Milazzo]

I wouldn't bet if I were you.
You need to make in depth measurements to explain what can be or cannot be heard and still sometimes there are parameters that cannot be measured at least with the consumer tools we use.

Frequency response is the less reliable method to explain what we hear.

The following two amps measure the same and are dead flat.

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v200.php

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v100.php

Still volume matched with the same headphone and source they do sound different.

If you cannot hear it you got a blessing.
Buy yourself an O2 amp and you are done!

You can't imagine how many "audiophile" falls in my blind tests. Two complete electronics, even of the same models, are made of many components, not only some inches of the same cable. I can believe that a better listener than me can hear some little differences. But a single cable... i can't justify ANY price for a non measurable difference. And my question always is: "why a better cable always do a better job?" I can imagine an "audiophile answer": "why it's more expensive, and a more expensive thing always sounds better."

 

[Ichos]

And my question always is: "why a better cable always do a better job?" I can imagine an "audiophile answer": "why it's more expensive, and a more expensive thing always sounds better."

Not always!
I have heard very expensive speaker cables from know brands that were inferior to cheaper alternatives.
Cables do matter but price isn't a guideline and a cable should always be auditioned before buying.
Not all cables make a difference but some does.
To tell you the truth i wasn't a believer and never spent for exotic cables , i used to have just good build quality cables.
But some time ago a friend brought a large collection of speaker cables to try them just for fun , he was not selling anything
and i was not buying.
Well there were cables that made very audible differences not even needed to do A/B tests.
Please note that some cables affected the sound in very bad way and others just did't do anything worth of mentioning,
There were two or three not necessary expensive that they were amazing.
Perceived frequency response was not affected but detail , dynamics , separation , clarity , organization well oh my!!!!

 

[surfgeorge]

Changing subject to the Pinnacle P1 again - or actually not
I just want to invite anyone who is interested in the P1, or owns and likes the P1 to take a look at the Moondrop thread and the Moondrop Kanas Pro.
I bought them as my 2nd endevour into the mid-fi IEM range and they changed my take on IEMs completely. This describes them quite well:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moo...pressions-thread.894139/page-31#post-14720950

In short - they are cheaper/similar price as the P1, but IMHO are better in each and every aspect. Extension, (especially sub-bass), detail, separation and soundstage, transparency are all on a different level. They are also more liquid and smooth.
The only caveat is that they I had difficulties finding a good tip, in the end I had custom silicone tips made.

I enjoyed the P1 as a portable solution but the Kanas are the first IEMs that I prefer over my full size headphones.
(Disclaimer: I have not heard a ton of IEMs but I know good sound. Listened to and judged with Chord Mojo and mostly classic, acoustic recordings and some electronic/pop music. But the KP also sounds good with my lesser sources)

 

[bachankas]

I will return to cable topic, but about SE vs balanced. As I love P1 sound, I feel that the bass does not go as deep as it should.
P1 are very power-hungry, with my Shanling M3s, EQ enabled and ReplayGain active I need to set volume around 60-70/100 on High Gain.
Did anyone checked how the balanced cable work with P1?

 

[Mouseman]

I will return to cable topic, but about SE vs balanced. As I love P1 sound, I feel that the bass does not go as deep as it should.
P1 are very power-hungry, with my Shanling M3s, EQ enabled and ReplayGain active I need to set volume around 60-70/100 on High Gain.
Did anyone checked how the balanced cable work with P1?

That's the only way I run my P1s. I got a really nice cable off Ali, and it works great with my ES100 and other balanced sources. I have the Fiio adapter when I need to connect single ended.

 

[bachankas]

That's the only way I run my P1s. I got a really nice cable off Ali, and it works great with my ES100 and other balanced sources. I have the Fiio adapter when I need to connect single ended.

Thanks. Does the material (silver or Copper) have an impact on sound?

 

[Mouseman]

Thanks. Does the materiał. (Silver or Copper) have an impact on sound?

A little, but not enough that I notice, at least in my price range. I could never see my way to spending big bucks on a cable. A better source is more important. I just got the Burson Playmate, and it makes the P1s sound amazing (but it's not portable). The HiBy R3 balanced out can give the P1s enough juice, and really even the single ended.

I really liked the Q1 mk2 when I got it, it was superior to the mk 1 by a mile, but I really don't use it anymore. I have other sources and amps I like better.

 

[surfgeorge]

I will return to cable topic, but about SE vs balanced. As I love P1 sound, I feel that the bass does not go as deep as it should.
P1 are very power-hungry, with my Shanling M3s, EQ enabled and ReplayGain active I need to set volume around 60-70/100 on High Gain.
Did anyone checked how the balanced cable work with P1?

Did anyone recognize a stronger bass with more power?
I ran my P1 SE out of the Cayin N3, HiBy R3 and Mojo, and did not feel a difference between the weak R3 and the very powerful Mojo.
What helped was the foam tips from the 1More Triple (with some muted treble), the Spiral Dots and also the MandarinEs Symbio W worked well for me.

 

[Mouseman]

Did anyone recognize a stronger bass with more power?
I ran my P1 SE out of the Cayin N3, HiBy R3 and Mojo, and did not feel a difference between the weak R3 and the very powerful Mojo.
What helped was the foam tips from the 1More Triple (with some muted treble), the Spiral Dots and also the MandarinEs Symbio W worked well for me.

Spiral dots definitely help the bass. I'm not a fan of foams, I think I tried them once. I got some Mandarins and some Crystals, also wasn't a big fan. But different tips help the P1s a great deal (along with a sh!t-ton of power). I've had them for a while now, and they're still one of my favorites, even if they're not my daily driver.

More power also seems to help the bass. I think that's the first area to suffer when they're underpowered. They sound magnificent out of my xDuoo xd-05 with the Burson opamp.