[ostewart]

Qobuz via Roon works, right?

Does anybody have any thoughts on the M vs. the i? Looking at the specifications, I'm not clear (from a pure performance point of view) where the extra £600-700 is going save for an in-built power supply.

Yeah that works fine

M vs i also depends on if you are using it via wifi or wired network, as the i only supports 2.4gHz wifi whereas M is dual band.

 

[Scrum92]

Yeah that works fine

M vs i also depends on if you are using it via wifi or wired network, as the i only supports 2.4gHz wifi whereas M is dual band.

Is there no difference in the amplifier or DAC performance? I'm struggling to understand the price gap being so large. I'm sure the M is a better constructed, more premium feeling product but there's got to be more to the price gap?

 

[ostewart]

Is there no difference in the amplifier or DAC performance? I'm struggling to understand the price gap being so large. I'm sure the M is a better constructed, more premium feeling product but there's got to be more to the price gap?

M has the built in power supply, built in micro SD slot, and slightly higher bitrate support over the i. It seems they both have the same performance out of the headphone jack.

 

[Scrum92]

M has the built in power supply, built in micro SD slot, and slightly higher bitrate support over the i. It seems they both have the same performance out of the headphone jack.

The i makes me consider the M's value proposition. In terms of performance, might the internal power supply help?

That said, the i measures impeccably.

 

[boxster233]

Yggdrasil/Ragnarok was the latest. In the past I have heard the Moon 430HA, Oppo HA-1, Bryston BHA-1 ( I forget the DAC we were using), McIntosh MHA-150, and some of the more entry level stuff was the Schiit Modi multi bit with a channel island amp. Also use a chord mojo for portable listening but not a very fair comparison. Not saying the Element X is "better" than the equipment listed above because they weren't compared side by side and certainly not blind just my subjective opinion. I was looking for a solution that had all of the features I wanted in one box and think I found it. I get to audition the DCS Bartok next month and look forward to it but certainly not in the same price range.

I’ve really looked at 430ha but to get mqa dac from moon would cost me $6k. The element x is moving up to a front runner for me because of that package.

 

[murl]

Yeah the Element X is great quality and has a tremendous amount of features for the money. I had an issue with the usb input not being an option for an input. I sent an email to customer service at about 530PM on a week night and got a phone call about the problem within 30 minutes. Turned out it was a firmware issue and was fixed immediately. It really is a nice piece of gear but I have never had service like that with any gear in the past.

 

[boxster233]

Yeah the Element X is great quality and has a tremendous amount of features for the money. I had an issue with the usb input not being an option for an input. I sent an email to customer service at about 530PM on a week night and got a phone call about the problem within 30 minutes. Turned out it was a firmware issue and was fixed immediately. It really is a nice piece of gear but I have never had service like that with any gear in the past.

And that was from Matrix?

 

[murl]

And that was from Matrix?

Yes it was

 

[teknorob23]

I've just spent a week demo'ing the Element X, mainly as a DAC/ Streamer/ ROON Endpoint running into a Feliks Audio Euforia AE OTL amp. I have also spent a couple of hours listening directly via the headamp stage. I am looking to lower the box count in system as i no-longer have dedicated listening room, which has become overrun by the unstoppable tide of Lego on our house. My current set up that its up against is SotM Streamer > Hugo2> Euforia AE > Focal Stellia. For anyone who hasnt heard the Euforia AE, its probably the least coloured tube amp i've heard, its super accurate and i lose very little of the H2's resolution and what i get in return is a more 3D stage, even more weight and a lovely shape and texture in the bass and across the frequency range (this is improved even more with a quad of GLKT88s in place).

First off its beautifully made, reassuringly heavy thing which arrived impressively packed, just slightly sub-apple which is amazing for smallish/new company. I was up and running in less than 5 minutes as ROON endpoint.

First thing that hit me, coming from perfectly focused/ organised H2, was the expansive nature of the staging, second was the level of detail which is quite astonishing. No A-B'ing to hear differences is required, the amount of extra detail is shockingly noticeable and gets even more impressive as you focus in. All this detail is helped by the way its separated across the aforementioned very wide stage. Tuning-wise i'd say its close to what i call neutral probably more so than the H2 which i considered neutral but now sounds less so having heard the Element X. The bass and treble are both very well extended and hugely detailed, and the mids are as they should be too. I couldnt hear any discernible bumps or dips. This thing is technical tour de force and i can see why they love it so much on Audio Science, where i believe its measured as "the best dac ever".

All of this said, i'm not keeping it and really didnt fall for it. Marvelled and admired yes, but no love. For me it misses low end punch, control and weight of the Hugo2 and the silky liquid way it washes back and fourth between the mids and treble. Listening to the Element X, really helped me appreciate the Hugo2 a fresh as i'd been taking its attributes, that i've just mentioned for granted, familiarity, contempt, etc... Comparatively the Element X sounds lean and too laid back. I listen to a lot electronic music so i value dynamism and accuracy, it has the latter but without the former its wasted on me. I also like my electronic music to defy its production methods and to be presented in as analogue sounding and soulful way as possible and the Element X has left me cold. Another area where i'd obviously been under appreciating the H2 is its mid-range. The Element X is particularly lean, with a light/ flat timbre. I would have said the H2 was neutral here but comparatively it sounds rich and edging towards warm??

There is a big caveat and one smaller one i have to add to my impressions of the Element X, that comes down to system synergy as I have to say it sounded really good n my 2-channel set up. I had it playing into my Primare SPA234k Receiver and PMC Twenty5.22 front speakers. The Primare has a pristine silky presentation, perhaps tilting toward flat or lean. The PMC's have stunning bass, for small-ish speakers, beautifully controlled and unlike their predecessors they have next level mid's in terms of detail but also naturalness. But due to the changes in my listening set up, in that its now shared with 2 little boys under 4, built solely to probe and find weakness, the speakers are now all mounted which is less than ideal and despite being front ported, still make it very hard to control the bass. Well with the Element X, the staging again was fantastic, as was the detail, but the bass is now beautifully controlled (its almost like they were back on stands 3 feet from the wall). There is also a dynamism and energy thats so clearly missing in my headfi rig, which shows that despite my findings, you shouldnt discount the Element X without hearing it in your own system.

The smaller 2nd caveat, mainly because its consistent and not contrary to my main impressions, is that the headamp is the weakest link in the Element X. Its not bad and of course my listening has been entirely via the Stellias, which are pretty easy to drive, but all of its traits that i didnt like via my Euforia, are there but even easier to hear. It just lacks get up and go and i'll leave at that.

Sorry to anyone who's stuck with me, this wasnt going to be war and peace, or such a rambling stream of consciousness, but in an effort to sum up, as a DAC in my headfi system ithe Element X has incredibly detailed, expansively staged presentation, which for me was sadly let down by a lack of energy, sense of propulsion and musical emotion. This is a massive shame because i had very very high hopes for this beautifully built piece of kit. i'd hoped it would tick my listening boxes while also providing an easy to use streamer for the rest of the family to use and not argue with me over now we all share a living room again, and it so nearly does it all, but i guess 2 things it confirms again are first, measurements at least for me are of limited use in evaluated hifi kit and second how good the Hugo2 is.

This has left me with a problem, i cant un-hear all that lovely detail, so despite my newly re-kindled love for the Hugo2, i am still looking for a new DAC and less boxes in the process, but maybe the answer for me a at least looks more like Hugo TT2.

The Element X is good value for money, beautifully made and could be an outstanding performer too, just not in my system.

 

[Arniesb]

I've just spent a week demo'ing the Element X, mainly as a DAC/ Streamer/ ROON Endpoint running into a Feliks Audio Euforia AE OTL amp. I have also spent a couple of hours listening directly via the headamp stage. I am looking to lower the box count in system as i no-longer have dedicated listening room, which has become overrun by the unstoppable tide of Lego on our house. My current set up that its up against is SotM Streamer > Hugo2> Euforia AE > Focal Stellia. For anyone who hasnt heard the Euforia AE, its probably the least coloured tube amp i've heard, its super accurate and i lose very little of the H2's resolution and what i get in return is a more 3D stage, even more weight and a lovely shape and texture in the bass and across the frequency range (this is improved even more with a quad of GLKT88s in place).

First off its beautifully made, reassuringly heavy thing which arrived impressively packed, just slightly sub-apple which is amazing for smallish/new company. I was up and running in less than 5 minutes as ROON endpoint.

First thing that hit me, coming from perfectly focused/ organised H2, was the expansive nature of the staging, second was the level of detail which is quite astonishing. No A-B'ing to hear differences is required, the amount of extra detail is shockingly noticeable and gets even more impressive as you focus in. All this detail is helped by the way its separated across the aforementioned very wide stage. Tuning-wise i'd say its close to what i call neutral probably more so than the H2 which i considered neutral but now sounds less so having heard the Element X. The bass and treble are both very well extended and hugely detailed, and the mids are as they should be too. I couldnt hear any discernible bumps or dips. This thing is technical tour de force and i can see why they love it so much on Audio Science, where i believe its measured as "the best dac ever".

All of this said, i'm not keeping it and really didnt fall for it. Marvelled and admired yes, but no love. For me it misses low end punch, control and weight of the Hugo2 and the silky liquid way it washes back and fourth between the mids and treble. Listening to the Element X, really helped me appreciate the Hugo2 a fresh as i'd been taking its attributes, that i've just mentioned for granted, familiarity, contempt, etc... Comparatively the Element X sounds lean and too laid back. I listen to a lot electronic music so i value dynamism and accuracy, it has the latter but without the former its wasted on me. I also like my electronic music to defy its production methods and to be presented in as analogue sounding and soulful way as possible and the Element X has left me cold. Another area where i'd obviously been under appreciating the H2 is its mid-range. The Element X is particularly lean, with a light/ flat timbre. I would have said the H2 was neutral here but comparatively it sounds rich and edging towards warm??

There is a big caveat and one smaller one i have to add to my impressions of the Element X, that comes down to system synergy as I have to say it sounded really good n my 2-channel set up. I had it playing into my Primare SPA234k Receiver and PMC Twenty5.22 front speakers. The Primare has a pristine silky presentation, perhaps tilting toward flat or lean. The PMC's have stunning bass, for small-ish speakers, beautifully controlled and unlike their predecessors they have next level mid's in terms of detail but also naturalness. But due to the changes in my listening set up, in that its now shared with 2 little boys under 4, built solely to probe and find weakness, the speakers are now all mounted which is less than ideal and despite being front ported, still make it very hard to control the bass. Well with the Element X, the staging again was fantastic, as was the detail, but the bass is now beautifully controlled (its almost like they were back on stands 3 feet from the wall). There is also a dynamism and energy thats so clearly missing in my headfi rig, which shows that despite my findings, you shouldnt discount the Element X without hearing it in your own system.

The smaller 2nd caveat, mainly because its consistent and not contrary to my main impressions, is that the headamp is the weakest link in the Element X. Its not bad and of course my listening has been entirely via the Stellias, which are pretty easy to drive, but all of its traits that i didnt like via my Euforia, are there but even easier to hear. It just lacks get up and go and i'll leave at that.

Sorry to anyone who's stuck with me, this wasnt going to be war and peace, or such a rambling stream of consciousness, but in an effort to sum up, as a DAC in my headfi system ithe Element X has incredibly detailed, expansively staged presentation, which for me was sadly let down by a lack of energy, sense of propulsion and musical emotion. This is a massive shame because i had very very high hopes for this beautifully built piece of kit. i'd hoped it would tick my listening boxes while also providing an easy to use streamer for the rest of the family to use and not argue with me over now we all share a living room again, and it so nearly does it all, but i guess 2 things it confirms again are first, measurements at least for me are of limited use in evaluated hifi kit and second how good the Hugo2 is.

This has left me with a problem, i cant un-hear all that lovely detail, so despite my newly re-kindled love for the Hugo2, i am still looking for a new DAC and less boxes in the process, but maybe the answer for me a at least looks more like Hugo TT2.

The Element X is good value for money, beautifully made and could be an outstanding performer too, just not in my system.

Its 100 percent seems that your headphones or speakers is at fault. Hugo 2 is less revealing and can hide flaws easier. Forward presentation of dac or amp is less accurate even if its more enjoyable.
Any component with less noise floor or more accurate presentation will sound wider and more extended aka boring.

 

[teknorob23]

Its 100 percent seems that your headphones or speakers is at fault. Hugo 2 is less revealing and can hide flaws easier. Forward presentation of dac or amp is less accurate even if its more enjoyable.
Any component with less noise floor or more accurate presentation will sound wider and more extended aka boring.

Sorry I’m probably not making myself clear. I’m definitely not saying the H2 is as revealing, its inferior on this count by some distance, but it is more dynamic and musical and weighty in my set up. I’m pretty sure my hp’s and the rest of my rig are fine too. I have listened to the element, not for long admittedly but on my brothers rig via utopias and it was the same there. My hifi set up is compromised by having speakers on the wall and this is where the element x sounded good. I’m not sure I 100% understand the point you’re making, perhaps if you have time you could elaborate?

 

[Arniesb]

Sorry I’m probably not making myself clear. I’m definitely not saying the H2 is as revealing, its inferior on this count by some distance, but it is more dynamic and musical and weighty in my set up. I’m pretty sure my hp’s and the rest of my rig are fine too. I have listened to the element, not for long admittedly but on my brothers rig via utopias and it was the same there. My hifi set up is compromised by having speakers on the wall and this is where the element x sounded good. I’m not sure I 100% understand the point you’re making, perhaps if you have time you could elaborate?

Thing is i heard matrix x sabre and hugo 2 and i didnt heard anything good from hugo 2... Matrix was heads and shoulders better and much more dynamic.
Hugo 2 had was warm and thin at the same time which was odd to me and Matrix sounded like Silver cable... Very resolving, but tasteless.
Hugo 2 was like water mixed with something to get more taste and Matrix was like Cleaner water just tasteless.
I find matrix was much better with speakers with great subs, because headphones in general have too much flaws and thus need all sorts of colorations to get great sound.

 

[teknorob23]

Thing is i heard matrix x sabre and hugo 2 and i didnt heard anything good from hugo 2... Matrix was heads and shoulders better and much more dynamic.
Hugo 2 had was warm and thin at the same time which was odd to me and Matrix sounded like Silver cable... Very resolving, but tasteless.
Hugo 2 was like water mixed with something to get more taste and Matrix was like Cleaner water just tasteless.
I find matrix was much better with speakers with great subs, because headphones in general have too much flaws and thus need all sorts of colorations to get great sound.

Thanks for expanding on what you wrote and i understand what you’re saying. But we don’t hear the same things with the H2. Are we talking in the same context. I am looking for a dac/streamer to primarily use in a headfi set up which is why my impressions are primarily based on how it performs In this context as that’s where I want it to perform. I can appreciate the matrix could sound good on a speaker based system, as it did in mine. Apart from the H2 I think we’re sort of agreeing??

 

[Arniesb]

Thanks for expanding on what you wrote and i understand what you’re saying. But we don’t hear the same things with the H2. Are we talking in the same context. I am looking for a dac/streamer to primarily use in a headfi set up which is why my impressions are primarily based on how it performs In this context as that’s where I want it to perform. I can appreciate the matrix could sound good on a speaker based system, as it did in mine. Apart from the H2 I think we’re sort of agreeing??

I dont know what it was, but for me hugo 2 didnt sounded musical... maybe something was wrong and i didnt had ton of time to try all configurations... tried optical with wireworld cable for hugo 2 and same for matrix, but also usb for matrix too.
Matrix sounded easily as good as hugo tt2, maybe even slighty more resolving.
Dave on the other hand was just great in every way cause it sounded most resolving and most natural. It wasn't much more resolving than matrix, but damn it sounded much more musical.

 

[teknorob23]

I dont know what it was, but for me hugo 2 didnt sounded musical... maybe something was wrong and i didnt had ton of time to try all configurations... tried optical with wireworld cable for hugo 2 and same for matrix, but also usb for matrix too.
Matrix sounded easily as good as hugo tt2, maybe even slighty more resolving.
Dave on the other hand was just great in every way cause it sounded most resolving and most natural. It wasn't much more resolving than matrix, but damn it sounded much more musical.

Ive had my H2 for nearly 3 years and without upping the budget I’ve not heard anything I liked more. The element x definitely has better detail than most dac’s I’ve heard and on that measurement alone I agree it’s not far off from save territory. I know the tt2 quite well and For the the whole sonic package is far more complete. It may or may not match on detail, but it’s effortlessly presented and just sounds natural and organic. It’s also beautifully focused so i can get lost in the music more easily or if I want to I can isolate a certain instrument. Tonnally is a bit richer than the Dave and generally better suits my preferences. It’s just much more complete than the matrix. I guess it’s also worth noting that the x-sabre pro and element x supposedly sound different from one another, despite having essentially the same dac stage, I guess it isn’t by much but I haven’t heard the x-sabre pro, so perhaps someone else can chime in hear.