[Jake2]

No apologies necessary to me

I just was pointing out the grounding boxes rabbit hole thats all.

You may be interested in cdacosta's homemade grounding boxes. I believe the grounding tubes contain similar ingredients, just in smaller amounts. zivkof also made one.

Don't know why these work but they seem to work well.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-175

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-176

Cheers, gee that's next level down the rabbit hole, fascinating.

Not sure I'll have the time or inclination to fully DIY them like that, but certainly helps one be a little better informed in purchasing and/or making minor tweaks like modding ground connectors or cables. Funnily enough I found myself googling Rhodium RCA plugs yesterday so interesting to see cdacosta favours the Furutech Rhodiums.

To bring this back to clocks, to minimise the resistance of a ground connection to a BNC socket I also unsuccessfully googled for Rhodium BNCs (not the demand yet it seems, who'd have thought!), looks like I might have to settle for something like this..

https://www.thomann.de/gb/hicon_bnc_59_mg.htm

 

[Exocer]

Cheers, gee that's next level down the rabbit hole, fascinating.

Not sure I'll have the time or inclination to fully DIY them like that, but certainly helps one be a little better informed in purchasing and/or making minor tweaks like modding ground connectors or cables. Funnily enough I found myself googling Rhodium RCA plugs yesterday so interesting to see cdacosta favours the Furutech Rhodiums.

To bring this back to clocks, to minimise the resistance of a ground connection to a BNC socket I also unsuccessfully googled for Rhodium BNCs (not the demand yet it seems, who'd have thought!), looks like I might have to settle for something like this..

https://www.thomann.de/gb/hicon_bnc_59_mg.htm

What impedance do you need?

https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/1628-furutech-fp-3-117r/

https://www.thecableco.com/diy-cables-and-connectors/bnc/cf-bnc-r-bnc.html

I’ve only seen 75ohm rhodium plated connectors.

 

[dougms3]

Cheers, gee that's next level down the rabbit hole, fascinating.

Not sure I'll have the time or inclination to fully DIY them like that, but certainly helps one be a little better informed in purchasing and/or making minor tweaks like modding ground connectors or cables. Funnily enough I found myself googling Rhodium RCA plugs yesterday so interesting to see cdacosta favours the Furutech Rhodiums.

To bring this back to clocks, to minimise the resistance of a ground connection to a BNC socket I also unsuccessfully googled for Rhodium BNCs (not the demand yet it seems, who'd have thought!), looks like I might have to settle for something like this..

https://www.thomann.de/gb/hicon_bnc_59_mg.htm

He's a very knowledgeable and experienced dude, he taught me alot of tricks and tweaks to bring my audio system up to new levels.

Yea theres not many options for BNC. I would opt for the old reliable, either furutech or oyaide. I hate second guessing myself when it comes to these things. Even if its pricey, I'd rather just upgrade once and pay the extra premium than go nuts wondering if it would have been better with the connector I didn't get.

I really want to get this custom clock cable for the DDC to master clock.

I've been going back and forth with the seller and he responded with this.

"So let's say if we're still OK with using a air-dielectric design.. what I'll do is suspend the wire in a teflon tube, place a shield, measure the impedance and correct the design until I get close to 50ohms."

Do you know if this is a reliable method to achieve the desired impedance?

 

[Jake2]

What impedance do you need?

https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/1628-furutech-fp-3-117r/

https://www.thecableco.com/diy-cables-and-connectors/bnc/cf-bnc-r-bnc.html

I’ve only seen 75ohm rhodium plated connectors.

Cheers. Looks like my googling was a little quick and casual. I assume characteristic impedance/dialectics don't matter at all if I'm just connecting the outer ground and not seeking to carry a clock signal.

Also just found these Viborg ones on Aliexpress.

 

[Jake2]

"So let's say if we're still OK with using a air-dielectric design.. what I'll do is suspend the wire in a teflon tube, place a shield, measure the impedance and correct the design until I get close to 50ohms."

Do you know if this is a reliable method to achieve the desired impedance?

Good luck with your cable quest! I'm not the right person to ask sorry (not super technical, just learning enough to be dangerous), but having done a little reading on characteristic impedance a few months ago it sounds... tricky.

On a related point I also recently stumbled across this useful cross sectional view of the dialectic and pin arrangements in 50 vs 75 ohm BNC plug/socket connections.

 

[dougms3]

For the tweakers amongst you all, I've made a few mods to my OCK-1 that have all been worthwhile -

#1 - Changed the feet to improve mechanical isolation. I used Audio Serenity ISO-9H and have use these before with good results. Link - Audio Serenity ISO-9h

#2 - Fabricated an aluminum RF shield to go between the transformer and incoming AC and the DC & clock stages. The OCK-2 has this kind of isolation. There's a photo of this below. It's attached to the chassis using a vacant hole.

#3 - Changed the main PSU caps from 1000uF to 2200uF Panasonic FC and the two 100uF OSCON style caps on the regulator output to 1000uF.

Was it all worthwhile?

#1 - absolutely, especially as it was an easy mod.
#2 - again, yes, if you're able to fabricate the divider plate.

#1 & #2 positively reinforce the "OCK-1" sound that JaMo so accurately described in his review. Less grain and more clarity in the top end, notably better imaging and perhaps a bit more bass.

#3 - yes, also worthwhile if you're handy with a desoldering tool and soldering iron. This mod changed the sound somewhat to be closer to the OCK-2 sound that JaMo described - the bass leaned out and tightened up a bit (not in a bad way) and the sound signature moved a bit away from the organic end of the spectrums to slightly more analytical. This mod probably hasn't settled down yet though as the caps only have a few days time on them so far. My experience with recapping devices where the caps are at relatively low voltages is that they take a bit longer to settle down. I may change the Panasonic FC caps to my preferred Nichicon KA series, but I had the Panasonics on hand so I went with that as a first step.

I suspect that I may have invalidated my warranty too

Like a few of you here, I started the 10Mhz clock journey with a Morion clock and linear PSU. It's been a hugely satisfying upgrade to get the OCK-1 and it's a massive bargain given that the Morion is now selling for about the same price as the OCK-1, and that's before adding a decent PSU.

Wow what an awesome mod.

I wish I had the ability to fabricate an aluminum shield lol.

 

[Jake2]

And just to continue the 50 vs 75 ohm connector confusion fun, it seems it's in play even with the Furutech Rhodium BNCs @Exocer linked.

I see they're often but not always described as 75 ohms, sometimes the product blurb is silent on characteristic impedance. Indeed Furutech's English language product page doesn't specify this:

https://www.furutech.com/2013/01/27/1117/

Though their (not great) product photo doesn't display any visible dieletric which suggests 75 ohms, a number of resellers' photos DO include clearly visible 50-ohm style dielectrics, including Audiophonics. Audiophonics' detailed photos below, make the dielectic and pin shape look suspiciously like a classic 50 ohm design that matches the cross-sectional view I posted above.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ante...odium-plated-occ-75-ohm-o8mm-pair-p-9990.html

Yes it's all academic if one was only to use it for a ground connection (which would be massive overkill I agree - for now it's just a thought experiment), but thought I'd post this in case someone like maybe @dougms3 was casting around for a high end connector for a 50 ohms custom clock cable. There's actually a step-up 'carbon' version too I see, though that one is clearly specified by Furutech as being 75 ohms. Every reseller photo is consistent this in terms of using the same stock photos with no prominently visible dielectric. Edit - I see Exocer linked this second one too!

 

[dougms3]

And just to continue the 50 vs 75 ohm connector confusion fun, it seems it's in play even with the Furutech Rhodium BNCs @Exocer linked.

I see they're often but not always described as 75 ohms, sometimes the product blurb is silent on characteristic impedance. Indeed Furutech's English language product page doesn't specify this:

https://www.furutech.com/2013/01/27/1117/

Though their (not great) product photo doesn't display any visible dialetric which suggests 75 ohms, a number of resellers' photos DO include clearly visible 50-ohm style dialectrics, including Audiophonics. Audiophonics' detailed photos below, make the dialectic and pin shape look suspiciously like a classic 50 ohm design that matches the cross-sectional view I posted above.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ante...odium-plated-occ-75-ohm-o8mm-pair-p-9990.html





Yes it's all academic if one was only to use it for a ground connection (which would be massive overkill I agree - for now it's just a thought experiment), but thought I'd post this in case someone like maybe @dougms3 was casting around for a high end connector for a 50 ohms custom clock cable. There's actually a step-up 'carbon' version too I see, though that one is clearly specified by Furutech as being 75 ohms. Every reseller photo is consistent this in terms of using the same stock photos with no prominently visible dialectric. Edit - I see Exocer linked this second one too!

I could be wrong but it seems like the connector doesn't dictate the final impedance.

As someone previously indicated on the ock2 the connectors are 50ohm but they are switchable to 75ohm by switching the impedance selector.

I think it is more the cable that needs to be designed for the impedance, I'm not too sure. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge on the subject could chime in.

I'd really like to know what is the biggest factor in determining the impedance of the cable.

 

[Jake2]

I could be wrong but it seems like the connector doesn't dictate the final impedance.

As someone previously indicated on the ock2 the connectors are 50ohm but they are switchable to 75ohm by switching the impedance selector.

I think it is more the cable that needs to be designed for the impedance, I'm not too sure. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge on the subject could chime in.

I'd really like to know what is the biggest factor in determining the impedance of the cable.

Yes, sorry I didn't mean to restart the seemingly endless discussion about what is critical for ensuring the characteristic impedance of RF cables and connectors meets spec. You raise a fair question to which I'd like to know the conclusive answer too, if there is one.

Was just pointing out at least some versions of that Furutech plug appear to include the polymer dielectric to the end of the the plug that would allow the unbroken continuation of the dialectric per the seeming standard 50ohm spec. As to whether the absence of that dielectric (or rather air dielectric instead of Fluoropolymer) for the ~5mm of the plug depth would actually matter and creates an impedance change and reflection point, I think the jury is still out.

Expect this matters even less when a 50 ohm plug or socket (with dielectric material to end) is paired with a 75ohm plug or socket (with dielectric gap) as there you'd have a half-way house of part air and part polymer dielectric across the 5mm centre join zone. I guess this is all that LHY and Cybershaft need to allow for in their impedance matching/selecting circuitry as they could reasonably expect a plug with or without dielectric to end as per the user selected impedance.

But all things being equal, presumably it's better or at least safer to select plugs and sockets to maintain the continuity of the dielectric for a 50ohm cable/plug/socket connection and to have the usual short break in the dielectric for a 75 ohm plug/socket connection.

Edit - just realised I've been spelling dielectric incorrectly... doh, sorry, fixed.

 

[MartinWT]

I have found with a sinewave clock (which my AfterDarks output), that cable impedance matters little, but cable quality does matter. So with my two clocks...

AD (75) -> LMR-400 (50) -> EtherREGEN (75)
AD (75) -> LMR-400 (50) -> U18 (50)

In both cases, the LMR-400 outperforms everything else I've tried so far.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

This is the WCLK output of my MC-3+ USB running off the REF10. It does improve marginally with the REF10's clock but it is pretty good even with the internal clock. This is a 75 ohm clock setup including the cable, but running into the 50 ohm input of the scope. So, uncorrected measurement

This is the REF10 running off the 2nd 50 ohm output over the LMR-240 cable I posted the pic of earlier upthread.

 

[MartinWT]

That's one reason why I prefer a sinewave clock.

 

[hobieboyca]

I have found with a sinewave clock (which my AfterDarks output), that cable impedance matters little, but cable quality does matter. So with my two clocks...

AD (75) -> LMR-400 (50) -> EtherREGEN (75)
AD (75) -> LMR-400 (50) -> U18 (50)

In both cases, the LMR-400 outperforms everything else I've tried so far.

@MartinWT:
So you are connecting an AD 75ohm output through a LMR-400 50 ohm cable into the U18 10MHz clock input that is a 50ohm input? Does the impedance difference matter? Curious why you didn't specify a 50ohm AD unit?

 

[ChJL]

I think we should start up a HiFi/HighEnd Fuses thread... I hope You guys may do this.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-grade-fuses.419939/

not much going on there...

 

[ChJL]

Speaking of Mutec but not to hijack the thread, they were supposed to come out with a new DDC around Xmas. I wonder what's up with that as I've seen nothing from them.

I hope they will and I asked the guy who has originally posted that info if he knows more about that or why it's not launched yet... he didn't answer.
He referred to someone who upgrades U18s (probably other stuff as well) and I remember that that someone said "don't bother upgrading your U18, because the new Mutec DDC will be way better...

Time will tell and wouldn't - after Christmas - High End Munich traditionally be a good date for new launches?

not to hijack the thread: Could a very good DDC+reclocker be a better solution than a mid level masterclock like the OCK-2?